Are standardized tests really racially-biased?

Who said it was racist? Public schools have standardized testing, it’s 2015, black kids have the same exact resources available to them as anyone else attending public school.

@cheebdragon Google: “oarsman regatta racism”

It’s not racist at all. There is a cultural bias though. Does not matter what your race is but if you grow up in the ghetto you are statistically morevlikely to perform poorly

@fluthernutter – It sounds like you are asking whether class (as in socioeconomic class) is a factor in these tests rather than race. Sure. But in a culture where it’s difficult to separate socioeconomic class from race, it’s not completely unreasonable to identify class-based standardized test questions as racially-biased.

Note: I had no idea what an oarsman or regatta was until I did @gorillapaws’ search.

Math, Physics, Chemistry, etc… are just that: Math, Physics, Chemistry, etc. Sure you can say underprivileged kids did not have the time or parental support to help them. It does not correct for kids from single parent families, kids with reading disabilities, or kids taught by parents who only read the bible and think the world is 6000 years old. The tests simply show what you know in those subjects. It is a standard by which colleges can understand and compare student progress.

I can imagine how some vocabulary words might be more frequently used and/or have different meanings when used by different groups. If there is a lot of discrepancy, the question is immediately flagged and revisited. Theoretically both answers are acceptable or the question is deleted and the test is updated in the next revision. The tests are living documents.

Cap, colors, cheese, crack,... have completely different meanings depending upon your socioeconomic status.
But what standards should be taught?

Don axe me now, less you want me to bust a cap in yo ass.

This was a much bigger problem 50 or so years ago. Over the decades, test makers have worked very hard to fix the problems. There are still problems when you take a test abroad and give them to people in a culturally very different part of the world. The last documentary I saw showed that aboriginal Australians scored lower on standardized tests than their white counterparts mostly because of cultural differences.

Aboriginal Australians scored lower than their white counterparts. Was that a surprise?

I have a friend who lived in the bayou of Louisiana – an area not known for its educational prowess and mastery of scientific methods. The residents there have an expression for a dumb guy: “He’s as useless as a brain surgeon on a shrimp boat.”
Bias can work both ways.

It’s a tricky business, measuring intelligence, and there’s plenty of bias involved, intentional or otherwise. To my mind the difference between cultural and racial bias amounts to a pointless splitting of hairs. What race isn’t defined by its culture? I think much more prominent in the skewing of the supposed measure of intelligence is the “language bias”. By this I mean that the command of whatever language in which the test is administered is far more important to scores than any sort of cultural or racial differences among those being tested.

Socio-economics is one of the biggest reasons for difficulty measuring IQ without bias, but I would say the tests are more accurate than not.

Language skills do matter a lot in the sense that understanding a question really matters if you want to get the answer right. Some languages use double negatives in a way that English does not, so if you are not very fluent in English that could work against. Not just people who speak another language, but even dialects within the US. Poor southern black people probably have at least somewhat of a different dialect than a white poor person living in Wisconsin.

Still, I would say anyone born and raised here taking an IQ test is basically fairly tested. Even if their score is slightly affected by class or race it’s minimal.

As for tests that evaluate knowledge if particular topics, that can be incredible biased in many different was against many different groups. Biased, and the exam creators might not realize their bias at all.

@gorillapaws root on the link I opened: Guess what? When everything is racist, then nothing actually is

@cheebdragon There’s actually quite a bit of research on racial bias in standardized testing. Not to say that I necessarily agree with it. But to address your question of Who said it was racist? A lot of people.

When I was talking about a discrepancy in acess to testing, I was talking about the discrepancy between different socioeconomic groups. If you have more money, you’re more likely to go to a better school than your less fortunate counterparts.

But that aside, blacks do not have the same access to standardized testing…at least not in California. In California, it’s illegal to administer an IQ test to a black student—unless they’re trying to test into a gifted program. Yup, 2015. Current law.

@gorillapaws That’s one popular example that often comes up. But I think it’s more of a bias—and not a racial one at that. I think a rich black kid is more likely to have first hand knowledge of what a regatta is than a poor white kid. But firsthand knowledge is not necessary. I was a poor minority living in a mostly-white, upper middle class neighborhood. Did I know it because I was off sailing with my rich white friends? No, I knew it because I went to a good school.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Unless you’re trying to test aboriginal Australians, I don’t think it’s a cultural bias. I agree that you’re more likely to score lower if you grew up in the ghetto, but that’s more about socioeconomics than culture.

@hominid Defining it along class would be tricky. So defining it along race isn’t entirely unreasonable. But is it effective? How does making it illegal to administer an IQ test to a black student actually help the black student?

@LuckyGuy You obviously need to know the material to do well on the exam. But your familiarity with the format of the test can be a handicap or an advantage. I don’t think most kids in the ghetto are taking PSATs in junior high.

@keobooks Yes, but aboriginal Australians are pretty far removed from our culture. Was the documentary trying to liken black students to aboriginal Australians? Seems like a pretty extreme example.

@stanleybmanly I agree, sort of. Yes, the language barrier is a pretty obvious handicap. But having another issue doesn’t make this issue any more or any less.

@JLeslie Their scores are more than just slightly affected. The whole reason why IQ tests on black students were banned was because there was a disproportionate amount of black students being incorrectly diagnosed as mentally-handicapped.

@ibstubro Almost everything is racist. But not everything can affect your future the way standardized testing does.

@fluthernutter: “How does making it illegal to administer an IQ test to a black student actually help the black student?”

I am not sure how we went from an analysis of standardized tests and their fairness to making the administering of IQ tests to black students. I would hope that an acknowledgement of the class/race limitations of standardized testing would be used to make modifications to the tests.

@hominid Administering IQ tests to black students were banned because these standardized tests were deemed unfair—racially. I agree there are biases in the tests. And they should be used to modify the tests. I also understand that drawing the line along race is easier than drawing it along class. But where I am confused is that I don’t understand how it would actually benefit black students to ban these IQ tests. It’s not like they’ve created another version for them. As far as I know, there’s no other standardized means of assessing their needs.

I live in California, I went to public schools here and my son is currently attending 3rd grade at a local public school. Every year they spend a week taking standardized tests, I had to do the same back when I was in school.
Unless a student is absent during that week or a parent requests that they not be tested, all of the children take the same test (or variation of it to prevent cheating) as the rest of the kids in their grade.

Some schools are better than others, just like Harvard is better than community college, but for anyone to claim that 1 race of students attending the same school is less intelligent than another race, is just bullshit in my opinion. The state can’t afford to teach on an individual level or by race, everyone gets the same shit and if you can’t keep up, you get to repeat the grade until you can.

The tests are biased against most students in lower socioeconomic brackets. The educational experience is not the same for kids from different economic backgrounds.

@fluthermutter IQ testing was banned in schools? I didn’t know that. Nationwide?

My husband recently took a test for a job and a lot of the questions looked very IQy. What if IQ does measure how a person can take in and process information in school and society? If black people have a harder time on the test does it mean it’s accurate that they might have a harder time in certain careers or life situations? California and other states are getting rid of affirmative action and quotas for college entry, because so many of the kids admitted into the school given exceptions, and lower requirements to fill quotas, weren’t able to do the work. That doesn’t help the student himself or the student who missed out on the spot.

@JLeslie African American kids ARE taking standardized tests in California, check the link in my last post.

@cheebdragon The standardized tests that we do each year in public schools are achievement tests, not IQ tests.

I dont think an entire race is less intelligent than another. That’s why there’s been a lot of research in biases (whether it’s race, class or etc.) Statisically, black students score lower than white students. That’s just a fact. Why they score lower is where opinions diverge.

@JLeslie Only in California. And only IQ tests. Not to be mistaken for the standardized tests that @cheebdragon mentioned.

It’s unfair to judge someone’s IQ on something they have little to no exposure to. A high school in a poor neighborhood will have its disadvantages. You can try to measure what they’ve learned so far (given their circumstances). But it’s difficult to measure what they are capable of learning. Once you’re in college, it’s sink or swim. Just letting them get a chance to just get in the pool.

@cheebdragon Here’s a link to the IQ test ban for black students in California.

The question was ”Are standardized tests really racially-biased?” correct?!?
You also said ”But that aside, blacks do not have the same access to standardized testing…at least not in California.”…......Am I reading it the wrong way or are you writing what you don’t mean to say?? lol, I’m clearly confused.
: )

@cheebdragon Yes. On average, black students score lower than white students on most standardized tests. It starts as far back as kindergarten up through college. The problem is with all standardized tests.

The ban is limited to IQ tests in California for black students.

Sorry, it’s probably confusing because I’m talking about several issues at once. Access because of the ban. And access because of socioeconomic differences.

I know blacks test lower on IQ (I am not confusing it with achievement testing). I do think there is some bias in the tests. I also think the tests have some validity.

I don’t think certain races are genetically significantly lower in IQ. My belief is we are genetically predisposed to be within an IQ range and environment increases or decreases the number. You might be born with the range of 120–135 and with all the right circumstances you get into the 130–135 range. Although, I do believe at the very ends of the bell curve the ranges are more narrow. The brilliant just are brilliant and the severely impaired have a harder time progressing in IQ.

It’s worth stating that IQ, and an IQ score, certainly is not the end all be all for how successful a person is going to be or how knowledgable they are about a particular subject.

I don’t think giving minorities a break on tests that might help evaluate how well they can handle or process information helps them. I also think one single type of measure should not track a child. One bad test should not send the kid on a specific path in school for his entire education.

How do you explains Asians doing so well on IQ testing in America? They have disadvantages of parents who are not great at the English language, they are culturally different if they are the immigrant generation or first generation. Yet, they score very high.

Let’s say something within black culture influences the score. Let’s say that disappears if the black people are upper middle class or upper class. Then we certainly can argue the real problem is socioeconomic level. I think it is cultural and Socioeconomics that are some of the biggest factors. However, it still remains that black people on average test lower. We can either throw the test out altogether, or tweak it, or try to improve the scores. Socioeconomics and race are not mutually exclusive in America; they are tied together in all sorts of ways.

Plus, averages are just averages, and mean nothing regarding an individual.

@JLeslie One bad test should not send the kid on a specific path in school for his entire education.
I totally agree. Unfortunately an IQ test can put you in the wrong special needs class. And a low SAT score can ruin your chances of getting into a good college.

How do you explains Asians doing so well on IQ testing in America?
Two reasons. The average asian student is probably not as economically depressed as the average black student. And there’s also the stereotype bias. But that’s a chicken or the egg issue.

We can either throw the test out altogether, or tweak it, or try to improve the scores.
There were some school districts in LA that did this. After the IQ test ban for black students, they thought it would be more fair to throw it out for all students. Instead they made up their own test. That sounded great in theory, but the result was that even more students were misdiagnosed!

Socioeconomics and race are not mutually exclusive in America; they are tied together in all sorts of ways.
I get that it’s tricky to clearly separate the two. But I’m not sure using them interchangeably is actually helping black students.

@flithermutter About your last point, I have changed on that the last few years, but am open to changing my mind again. I used to very much only think it was socio-economics. In the last 15 years I’m not completely convinced. I mean to say there might be cultural differences partly influenced by economics, but also influenced by other outside things. Not just black people, but for many groups.

I guess my question would be—do the test scores even out when the socioeconomics are accounted for? I don’t know that answer, but it would be a key question. Does the black person, born in America, and raised here in a middle class family test as well as his white or Asian peers living in the same community and going to the same schools. I have no assumption about those results, however if we look at Asians they test higher than white people. Is their population more economically advantaged as a whole than white people in America? I don’t know. And, again, I do not believe any race is actually genetically much lower or higher. There used to be stats out there, probably there still are, of IQ divided up even among white groups.

What if customs with young babies and children significantly affect IQ? How long you let a baby cry, how much you talk to the baby, how much freedom a toddler is given, how much teaching is done at home, etc. what if Jews test high because of their tradition of allowing kids to question and debate. We lay neuro pathways throughout childhood and scientists are studying that all the time.

I was watching a documentary on Italian American immigrants back in the day. One point that stuck with me was white (I use white for simplicity) Protestant social workers would come into the tenements and open the windows for fresh air and didn’t like that the Italians wrapped their babies up like tacitos. Italians had a custom of keeping all windows closed with a baby in the house to avoid any drafts and they believed wrapping the baby was best. My husband was wrapped as a very young baby also (he’s Hispanic). That documentary was so very interesting to me for many reasons, but this particular bit of the film was a lesson in xenophobia.

One last thing, you are saying CA got rid of IQ testing, but it’s also the same state that got rid of affirmative action and quotas for college entrance isn’t it?

When I was growing up I was tested on IQ and achievements. That was 40 years ago.