Social Question

ninjacolin's avatar

Should we eat animals?

Asked by ninjacolin (14238points) November 20th, 2013
139 responses
“Great Question” (3points)

As asked.

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Answers

anniereborn's avatar

I can only say that my personal choice is not to eat animals. As far as “should we”? , that’s up to each individual.

ZEPHYRA's avatar

It is my personal choice too. By the way, this choice should include fish too. So many are the times I hear people say- ” I don’t eat meat but I DO eat fish.” I guess fish are not considered part of the animal kingdom? (Just a thought)

ucme's avatar

Of course, most of them taste so good.

Smitha's avatar

I have always been a non-vegetarian. I enjoy eating meat. Eating animals is a biological imperative and I don’t find anything wrong in it. Everyone has their own choice to eat meat or not. But I believe we should reduce the amount of meat intake.

whitenoise's avatar

Yes, else they’ll go extinct.

flutherother's avatar

It’s a personal choice. I choose to eat meat but I am against the factory farming of animals.

Seek's avatar

If you want to.

CWOTUS's avatar

We can’t help it; it’s preordained. There is no “should” or “should not” about it.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

I’d rather eat them than have them eat me.

thorninmud's avatar

I haven’t eaten an animal in over 20 years, and my biology’s doing just fine. I take no great pains to fill the supposed nutritional void where meat “ought” to be; I just eat whatever I feel like eating. I don’t take any dietary supplements. I’m not on any meds, either. If meat were required to live a healthy human life, I’d have been dead long ago. I’m not aware that my body has any special properties that make this possible. I just don’t eat animals, and all’s well.

As for the “should” aspect of the question, I think there’s only one “should” that really counts in life: you should listen to the voice of your own compassion. That voice is easily squelched if we’re not careful. It’s easy to make up reasons not to listen to it, or to rationalize it away. If you squelch it often enough, it goes quiet.

Different people can be faithful to their voice of compassion and be led in different directions by it. Nothing wrong with that. Compassion is a guiding principle, not a set of rules.

ibstubro's avatar

I too choose not to eat meat. I’m not against it, but, like @flutherother I’m strongly against the factory farming of animals. It’s wrong for everyone and everything.

SadieMartinPaul's avatar

@CWOTUS “We can’t help it.”

If it ever walked, crawled, flew, or swam, I haven’t eaten it in nearly 30 years. It seems that we can, indeed, “help it.”

OneBadApple's avatar

Any but the really cute ones….

ibstubro's avatar

No lamb or veal, @OneBadApple? No roast suckling?

OneBadApple's avatar

@ibstubro Well….I just close my eyes when eating veal…..

Rarebear's avatar

If God didn’t intend us to eat animals he wouldn’t have called them “meat”

glacial's avatar

Sure, and why not? There is nothing humans do on this planet that doesn’t somehow negatively impact other living beings. It is beyond pointless to wring our hands about the life of a cow while we are destroying caribou habitat so that we can drive our cars (to give a single example). If one finds that the thought of eating meat is so disturbing that one can’t enjoy life, then by all means stop. But it is hypocritical to try to force that choice on other people.

What I am saying here is that the question should not be, “Should we eat meat?” The question should be, “Should I eat meat?”

OneBadApple's avatar

@Rarebear I believe God called it (ש”ע) בשר; תוכן, תמצית, עיקר

ibstubro's avatar

I’m a veggie, and I agree with @glacial completely.

cookieman's avatar

Sure. Fun to pet, better to eat.

Katniss's avatar

I eat meat.
I find the older I get, the less appealing it is. I don’t know what’s up with that.
A lot of times I’ll grill my fiancé a steak and grill vegetables for myself.
I’m sure it’s psychological, but it seems like I feel better when I stay away from meat.

CWOTUS's avatar

I’m pulling @ninjacolin‘s leg, @SadieMartinPaul. Maybe he’ll explain later why that’s a joke.

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

I too, have changed my menu some with age. I eat lots less beef than I usd to. I eat pork, but not so often. I love rabbit, chicken, fish, froglegs, gator, and more.
Whatever god called it, I call it Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm EAT!
Not eating meat would not increase animal numbers in this world. The meats we eat, with exception of some ocean critters, are harvested espescially for consumption. If we ate none, I know no farmers who would continue to feed them or give them a home. I am in full support of harvesters, though I don’t like the factory raised idea either.

OneBadApple's avatar

froglegs ?? Well, look at YOU…..

ibstubro's avatar

I eat fish. I have very cleverly included frogs into the fish category so that I may eat of their legs.

:-/

OneBadApple's avatar

Last night my wife came running from another room saying that the A/C compressor fan outside just made a horrendous noise. I went out there with a flashlight and found mutilated frog parts all along the housing walls.

Moral: Stay the hell away from my stuff, froggie.

P.S. Sorry, boys…..I couldn’t salvage the legs…

glacial's avatar

@ibstubro How very Catholic of you.

janbb's avatar

Only small, naughty dogs.

ibstubro's avatar

I raise a toast to you, @glacial.

(If I’m going to be Catholic, I want to be Irish Catholic!)

Coloma's avatar

Humans are Omnivores by nature and while I am an animal lover to the 10th power and opposed to factory farming practices I do consume some meat and chicken. Not a lot, but some.
I figure I make up for it with all the animals I have rescued and cared for. including my beloved geese. I also kept chickens for years ate their eggs and took great pleasure in giving them a happy chicken life, nice pen, coops, free ranging around my property, lots of treats.

There is no right/wrong but there IS an ethical obligation to allow all animals the right to a quality life even if they end up on the table.

OneBadApple's avatar

How do you know that your pets aren’t whispering to each other, wondering if they’re next ?

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

You have the teeth of an omnivore, one of the lucky animals who is equipped to eat nearly every type of food. That answers the question for me.

OpryLeigh's avatar

What @Coloma said!

thorninmud's avatar

I’ve never quite understood the “omnivore” argument. Certainly, the ability to eat meat increases our options and, from an evolutionary standpoint, options are a good thing. It means you won’t starve just because you can’t get a particular food item. But I don’t think that means that you need to eat everything that you’re equipped to eat.

Coloma's avatar

@thorninmud I agree, and can certainly say that if I had to do my own killing, well..bean tostadas would be my mainstay. lol

ibstubro's avatar

My favorite is my meat eating friends that won’t eat chicken if it has bones in it!

SadieMartinPaul's avatar

Meat provides protein, iron, and a whole lot of cholesterol and saturated fat. Meat has no fiber, few vitamins or minerals, and no carbohydrates.

A plant-based diet is packed with essential fiber and nutrients, and it provides energy from natural sugars. Also, different plants contain different amino acids. If someone eats a variety of vegan foods and has sensible, balanced meals, that person will never be protein-deficient.

The original question asked, “Should we eat meat?” I interpret that to mean, “Is meat a necessary component of the human diet, and are we deficient without it?” Clearly, the answer is no.

OneBadApple's avatar

This all makes me think about going to Longhorn…

ibstubro's avatar

Lets all go to the buffet!

It’s been almost a month since I watched the cockroach crawl over the sushi and, after all, the kitchen manager did squish it with her thumb!

OneBadApple's avatar

On Jan.20, 2009 I took my wife and mother-in-law to Longhorn to celebrate George W. Bush finally leaving The White House.

All day at work I fantasized about prime rib, then the waitress says, “I’m sorry, we are out of prime rib this evening.”

But you are Longhorn Steaaaaaakhouse….

ibstubro's avatar

@OneBadApple At least you have the consolation of knowing that _it was Obama’s fault!

downtide's avatar

Biologically speaking, humans are omnivores and we are at our healthiest when we eat some meat as well as vegetables. However a typical western diet is far higher in meat content than we need, and modern-day vegetarians can get everything they need without meat, far more so than our prehistoric ancestors could.

I was exclusively vegetarian for several years but eventualy I got so sick and tired of having to study labels for hidden animal ingredients, I gave up. Now, I do eat meat again but I still prefer the vegetarian alternatives in many cases, and I choose organic/free-range wherever possible.

SadieMartinPaul's avatar

@ibstubro Cockroaches are meat, right? They sort-of look like tiny, slimy lobsters.

After the manager had squashed the roach with her bare thumb, did she hand-prepare more sushi?

tom_g's avatar

Ex-vegetarian (had been for 9 years).

When @ninjacolin asks “Should we eat animals”, he’s probably not asking:
– Should we eat animals if we want to maximize flavor for tonight’s dinner.
– Is it legal to eat animals?

He might be asking:
– Should we eat animals if we want to be healthy?

But more than likely, he’s asking:
– Is it moral to eat animals.

I think it really depends quite a bit on many variables. But it’s fairly easy to present a situation that can be evaluated. Person A:
– lives in a location with access to a wide variety of healthy, non-meat foods (U.S.)
– has enough income that purchasing non-meat items does not cause any real financial hardship.

In this case, eating meat is completely unnecessary. So, any suffering that exists as a result of Person A’s eating of meat seems to me to be not necessarily justified.

Now, we could add other variables into the mix, such as eating cage-free, cruelty, free-range animals that were not raised in factory farming environment, or animals that were hunted. This would certainly change the dynamic of the discussion here. But I’m not sure how we could get around the fact that in some situations, a living creature is going to be killed for simple pleasure (how they taste).

Note:
– I’m not excluding myself here. I was a vegetarian for 9 years, but have consumed animals since 2000 and completely have the means not to.
– I’m not talking about people in other cultures or poor people here in the U.S. who simply need any food.

downtide's avatar

Is it moral to eat animals?
Yes, I think so, provided that during the time the animals are alive, and also at the point of slaughter, they are treated humanely and with care.

OneBadApple's avatar

Many people forget that if given a chance, a LOT of species in the animal kingdom would gladly eat US raw, and without hesitation.

We just happen to have all the guns and the meat-processing equipment…

tom_g's avatar

@downtide: “Is it moral to eat animals?
Yes, I think so, provided that during the time the animals are alive, and also at the point of slaughter, they are treated humanely and with care.”

But let’s play this out. Why? I mean, can we apply this to humans? As long as during the time the humans are alive and also at the point of slaughter, they are treated humanely and with care? In other words, what specifically makes this ok for non-human animals and not humans?

SadieMartinPaul's avatar

@tom_g I couldn’t agree more.

Mahatma Gandhi – “I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more it is entitled to protection by man from the cruelty of man.”

Isaac Bashevis Singer – “People often say that humans have always eaten animals…According to this logic, we should not try to prevent people from murdering other people, since this has also been done since the earliest of times.”

downtide's avatar

@tom_g from the perspective of the survival of your own species, cannibalism is generally a bad idea. Even animals that are 100% carnivorous don’t kill their own kind for food.

tom_g's avatar

@downtide: ”@tom_g from the perspective of the survival of your own species, cannibalism is generally a bad idea. Even animals that are 100% carnivorous don’t kill their own kind for food.”

Is that the reason we don’t feel it is moral to farm and kill animals? Recall the argument here that you provided. Is it wrong to eat a human because it would reduce the human population? I don’t think that direction is going to work.

Edit: Just to be clear – what I am asking is, is species the only criteria for determining whether or not we should farm and eat an animal? If so, it would seem as arbitrary as “race” or some other group. Isn’t there something else, like consciousness or something?

ibstubro's avatar

Why, no, @SadieMartinPaul. She apparently felt as if she had done her duty by smashing the roach. The plates were not even removed for our benefit. I stood there and watched the roach crawl across 3 of the sushi plates, and up, over and down one piece of sushi itself. Obviously not an uncommon occurrence. Worse yet? The building is new within a few years, and was built for the restaurant.

dxs's avatar

@flutherother How does one avoid factory-farmed animals?

dxs (15160points)“Great Answer” (0points)
ibstubro's avatar

@dxs There are ways. Buy locally. Buy beef. Basically, know your source. I’m pretty sure that having the Organic label precludes factory farming.

glacial's avatar

@dxs Start by going to a butcher or a market instead of a chain grocery store for your meat. Talk to them about where the meat comes from.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

I just watched this amazing documentary.

And I can only be sarcastic and say go on keep eating meat, keep being ignorant to what’s going on around us.

I’m not saying this because I’m a ‘vegan’, or trying to be a smartass, OK, maybe a little :/ sorry but I am honestly saying this because my children and everyone’s children’s futures are at sake.

And because no other civilization has ever survived a collapse so we have to work together as people not separate entities and be a little smarter a show that we are indeed smarter.

Eating meat is causing global warming, it’s not the only thing but it does add to the global warming we are already experiencing, it’s also not nice to the the animals or to our own bodies. So eat fish, well we are pretty much killing the oceans and it’s fish. Is this the kind of world you envisioned for your children and your grandchildren, where the hopes of seeing a wild horse is no different than the same visions we have now of the woolly mammoth? And where the only way to envision a wolf is to just have a look at a dog. And for those of us without a conscious, well those just land on our plate as a piece of meat because apparently we live like scavengers. Imho, of course just my christianity speaking, but it’s like the highest form of gluttony I’ve ever seen.

We could change this, but are we all really ready to do it?

Revolution.

OneBadApple's avatar

OK….but I STILL feel like going to Longhorn….

KaY_Jelly's avatar

OK. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

ibstubro's avatar

@KaY_Jelly Remind me to tell you about my theory, “The Human Race is the Cancer of the Earth” sometime. Scorch and burn, kill the host.

CutieCupcake's avatar

It is a personal opinion, but I say it is ok as long as you are not torturing the animals. I believe this because, if you do not eat them, then the animals may become over reproduce animal without eating, or extinct for not having care (I love animals as much as the next guy, but who will take care of them for nothing). Also we need the cholestras (healthy cholestras) in meat to stay healthy. Thats why vegetarians, have to eat medican to stay healthy. But this is just my opinion, so no offense if you believe the other way.

Aethelwine's avatar

Sure.

Anyone have a good turducken recipe? We thought we’d try something new for Thanksgiving this year.

flip86's avatar

If it wasn’t for our ancestor’s consuming meat, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Eating meat has been directly correlated to our brain size. It is what gave us our increased cognitive functions.

OneBadApple's avatar

LongHORN…...LongHORN…..LongHORN…...

thorninmud's avatar

@flip86…cognitive functions which now enable us to come up with things to eat other than meat.

Coloma's avatar

Like spinach dip…poor little spinach babies, chopped down in their prime. ;-)

glacial's avatar

Won’t someone think of the braaaaaaaaiiiiins?

flip86's avatar

@thorninmud I don’t believe that you haven’t eaten animal products for as long as you claim. Meat is the only real source of vitamin B12.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Stealing the brains of beauties has only predisposed us to diseases like heart disease. Alarmingly enough, eat more of a plant based diet and you lower your risk because plant sterols reduce your ldl. So much for brains.

@flip86 wrong! I just had a shake this morning that had raw tofu in it, which is a source of b12.

Psssht.

@glacial well you wanted brains :P

glacial's avatar

@KaY_Jelly “that had raw tofu in it, which is a source of b12.”

Fortified tofu… in other words, the B12 was added to the tofu. I wouldn’t call that tofu vegan.

flip86's avatar

I said the only real source. Also, it takes years for a B12 deficiency to show symptoms, but by then, it’s usually too late. The damage will already be done.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Ok. So I suppose to be a true vegan we are supposed to eat food that hasn’t had any vitamins that have been added? Ok. Calling all vegans you might as well forget about drinking any water then. :/

@flip86 whether it’s real or not it’s still b12. I know many people who have not eaten meat for a lot of years. Take for example Woody Harrelson hasn’t eaten meat since he was a teenager.

flip86's avatar

It is a B12 analogue that our bodies cannot use effectively.

I’d love to see vegans survive without modern agriculture, imported crops, and grocery stores. There is no way a vegan diet could be sustained without these things. You’d all die of malnutrition because without meat, the vegan diet requires such a diverse group of plant based foods that you couldn’t possibly grow/produce yourselves.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

I’d love to see you get by without that. What you gonna do come kill my dog for supper? I don’t think so. I’ll eat dandelions first thanks before I pick up a gun and hunt anything for food.

Seek's avatar

@Tom_g

I think the main qualifications are a reasonable breeding rate, affordable upkeep, accessibility, and palatability.

I can’t imagine lions taste particularly good, at least not good enough to merit trying to domesticate giant cats. The teeth and claws are a reasonable deterrent.

flip86's avatar

@KaY_Jelly I wouldn’t need to shoot your dog. I could raise chickens, pigs and cows. Grow a crop of potatoes and other plants like carrots, onions, tomatoes, peppers, and beans and have all the nutrition I would need. A reasonably sized garden and a few animals in a warm climate could sustain me. Vegans, not so much.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Oh. OK. So vegans are incapable of growing vegetables or having a farm.

I see.

The only thing we wouldn’t eat is the meat.
And excuse me if I see no difference between eating a cow a dog or a human baby.

If you were to farm human babies for consumption you’d be called other things and it wouldn’t be hungry or b12 defficient, would it?

Seek's avatar

Remind me never to let @KaY babysit.

flip86's avatar

Vegans need a much more diverse diet of plant based foods to survive, at a much higher quantity than meat eaters. Most of the things you eat daily are fortified with essential vitamins. Less than 100 years ago a vegan diet could not have been sustained for long without serious health effects because there wasn’t access to the types of foods found in grocery stores today.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

@seek?

@flip86 We aren’t living less than 100 years ago. Just because I am or others have made the choice to become vegan does not mean we are forcing others to do so. But the average American eats 50% more of their recommended daily amount.

Anyway, this isn’t about trying to cut meat out of your specific diet. It’s about education and trying to save ourselves and this planet for the children and their children and imho we all should work together.

Seek's avatar

Well, I wouldn’t want you to cheat on your diet and try a little hank of leg-o-baby.

tom_g's avatar

@flip86: “I’d love to see vegans survive without modern agriculture, imported crops, and grocery stores.”

I’m not sure what kind of exposure you’ve had to vegetarians or vegans, or even people like me who eat meat but are pretty sure that eating meat might not be morally justifiable in many cases. But I think you might be arguing against a strawman – or at least a very rare position.

99% of the atheists I know are agnostic/weak atheists, yet it seems common for people to argue against the gnostic/strong atheist position. The most common argument I hear about eating meat, and the one I am presenting (hypocritically), is that it might simply be a matter of situation, like I mention above. In that context, comments about “100 years ago” or “I’d love to see vegans survive without modern agriculture, imported crops, and grocery stores” make little sense.

thorninmud's avatar

@flip86 The question is about eating meat, not about eating animal products. I said that I haven’t eaten an animal in over 20 years, not that I haven’t eaten eggs or milk or cheese. Those, of course pose their own ethical dilemmas.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

It is interesting that not only do we have different types of teeth for meat, grain, fruits, and vegetables, but we also have them in the proportion to the percentages that we should be eating these foods, according to modern dietary science.

thorninmud's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus We share our basic dentition with other primates, many of which are almost entirely vegetarian. This drawing shows the dentition of australopithecus, on the left; a gorilla, in the middle; and a modern human, on the right. You can see that they have the same kinds of teeth in the same proportions. The gorilla, despite having those impressive canines, eats mostly vegetation along with the occasional insect.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

@thorninmud Yes. They eat mostly vegetation. Just as is recommended by our dietary scientists and most cardiologists.

flip86's avatar

@thorninmud So my point is valid and I was right to believe you are not a strict vegan. Humans do in fact need sustenance from animal sources.

@tom_g The point of my comment was to illustrate that humans are in fact carnivores. Animal products are as essential to our diet as plant based foods. A strict vegan diet is detrimental to our health, even with supplements.

SadieMartinPaul's avatar

@flip86 We produce vitamin B-12 in our intestines.

As for surviving on a vegan diet 100 years ago, before foods were fortified, there’s a brewing controversy about whether our bodies actually process and benefit from nutritional supplements. Personally, I do take a multi-vitamin pill every day, but just as a precaution; I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the pills ingredients pass through my body without boosting my health.

A healthful eating regimen comprises a variety of plant-based foods, including protein-packed legumes. No dietary supplements are needed.

Just for the record, @flip86, I am a strict vegan.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr First of all its not a diet. There is no ‘cheating’ involved. I get protein. I don’t have cravings for it. It’s not like I’m on a starvation diet and I eat a carrot a day. I am actually disgusted by meat.

I haven’t had beef in over 20 yrs because the last time I had it it made me sick. After that I ate chicken on occasion, but I am also a supertaster and it just didn’t taste good to me.

I know it’s appalling what a said about a human baby farm. Well I take those morals and apply them to all living creatures and that includes humans, it’s not really a joking matter for me.

That’s the point really, this question is all about morals.

And everyone’s morals are different, and I’m not trying to make myself not eat meat, it’s very different than a diet.

When I go to the grocery store I shop in 3 aisles out of 12–15 I think. I certainly do not go down death row. I’ve seen enough death and suffering. Let’s call it aversion therapy.

tom_g's avatar

@flip86: ”@tom_g The point of my comment was to illustrate that humans are in fact carnivores. Animal products are as essential to our diet as plant based foods. A strict vegan diet is detrimental to our health, even with supplements.”

Omnivores. But is this a discussion about health or morality (“should”)? And is this about eating meat or “animal products”?

If it’s about health, is this discussion going to be about how much meat “should” be consumed? Or if this is about morality, does necessity and quantity play into this at all?

What’s your interpretation of the “should” here, and more importantly: Why do people not revisit their own questions? @ninjacolin, that’s you, brother.

flip86's avatar

@tom_g The question itself is quite ambiguous. “Should we eat meat?” No details given, no follow up from the OP.

As far as the morality of it? I think it is as moral as any other human behavior. Morality is subjective.

Coloma's avatar

I will NEVER give up cheese. Never! lol
I hate to see discussions like this evolve into egoic debate.
I too was a vegan for many years waay back when in the 70’s and made my choice to return to consuming some meats.

One thing I do not like is the premise that being vegan somehow elevates one to some “superior” status. My favorite saying in matters such as these is ” pick your poison.”
Great, you don’t eat meat but if you drive a car, well…..as always, pick your poison.
Too often the good reasons for practicing any lifestyle choice get lost in a sea of ego.

tom_g's avatar

@flip86: “As far as the morality of it? I think it’s is as moral as any other Human behavior. Morality is subjective.”

Here’s where we definitely disagree.

tom_g's avatar

@Coloma: “One thing I do not like is the premise that being vegan somehow elevates one to some “superior” status.”

I think you need to let go there. Progress sometimes triggers feelings of being defensive in people who have yet to change. And in that context, change is responded to with suspicion. Also, remember that people can make a single positive change in their behavior concerning one thing without having to address everything at once. Not owning a car and biking everywhere isn’t ripe for ridicule if the person happens to own a TV.

I completely disagree about the ego thing. And more importantly, if “ego” is the prime motivator here, I still have little problem with it.

“Pick(ing) your poison” is fun and all, but it is possible to pick less poison overall and have the net result be positive.

Katniss's avatar

So apparently meat causes arguments. lol

flip86's avatar

@SadieMartinPaul Bacteria in our intestines do produce B12, but it passes right through us. It does us no good at all. Thus, we need to get B12 from animal sources.

Coloma's avatar

@tom_g Mmmmm…I dunno…I agree that change can feel threatening to some, however, I do often see more than a grain of truth to the ego thing. People WANT to feel “special” and “unique” and often choosing the road less traveled, while perhaps truly believing in ones choices, does lend itself to an ego boost a lot of the time. I am so much more “evolved” because I choose this path.

tom_g's avatar

@Coloma – I’m not saying your complaint is unique. You’re not alone. I have experienced this more than a handful of times. In 1991 I stopped eating meat. I would have this exchange all the time…

friend: Why did you order that? Are you avoiding meat or some shit? I never see you eating meat any more.
me: I am not eating meat right now.
friend: Why not? Are you allergic?
me: No. I don’t want to.
friend: Well, why not?
me: I can’t seem to justify it, ethically.
friend: Ooooh, so [British “snooty” accent] you think you’re so much better than me? F*cking vegetarians just want to be better than everyone else.

This happened with family members and so-called “friends”. And this didn’t just happen with meat. No.

cousin: So, why didn’t you make it to that family party we had?
me: I couldn’t make it.
cousin: No? I heard you were marching on Washington or some hippie shit.
me: Yes
cousin: Why? What was the event?
me: It was in support of a woman’s right to choose…
cousin: Ooooh, so you’re all into [air quotes] “women’s rights” now? Hey, we have an activist in the family. Are you too good to sit with us at the table?

@Coloma: “People WANT to feel “special” and “unique” and often choosing the road less traveled”

That’s a depressing and cynical view of humanity, as well as a complete dismissal of any human progress that has been made. Do we need to discuss the change in attitude about homosexuality, “interracial” dating, or slavery? Would it have been appropriate to write off these changes as mere ego boosts just to feel special?

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

Bad Apple, I’ve never been to or seen Longhorn, can I go with you? @ EVERYBODY ELSE, almost, we don’t eat wolves or lions, wolves are nowhere NEAR extinction, humans did not cause the extinction of mammoths, in fact, humans may soon revive the species, at least in part. Humans hardly ever eat rhino, or panda, or tiger. What we DO eat is what is most plentiful in the world, because we make darn sure there’s plenty. I have NEVER heard of pigts being protected because planet earth is running low on them. Oh, no! Herferds are endangered! I agree that the conditions many are raised with are unbelievable, but that challenge will have to be met politically. I don’t denounce vegans, choice is choice, and I choose USDA CHOICE.

Coloma's avatar

@tom_g You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth, I am simply saying that SOMETIMES there is the added ego strokes of taking the road less traveled. I too was a vegan for about 7 years because I truly did care for animals, but also because I just don’t like meat all that much, especially beef. I’m just posing a tiny little byline to the situation and peoples egos do get in the way at times, that is not depressing or cynical, it is just another truth.
Discerning true, personal motivation vs. doing what’s considered the “cool” and popular trend of the day is a valid point.

Nothing mysterious and cynical at all, people are herd animals and we all know that a desire to belong and be cool does influence a lot of human choices. I do think a goodly amount of peeps jump on the meat wagon for the reasons I mentioned. Sheesh….forget it, no need to gnaw this carrot anymore. haha

tom_g's avatar

@Coloma – Sorry. I guess it is a pet peeve of mine for someone to duck their head in and declare the whole complex issue to be a means to pump up the ego. The effect it seems to have is to dismiss all of the completely valid areas of discussion that are open to exploration. Anyway, I guess we’ve exhausted this.

Coloma's avatar

@tom_g I didn’t, that is your perspective, I just tossed a tiny “grain” of potential truth into the stew pot. No biggy…I’m okay of you’re okay, we’re all okay, okay? lol

tom_g's avatar

@Coloma – Yep, we’re good :)

thorninmud's avatar

@flip86 It sounds like you’re trying to refute an argument that I never made. I’ve never tried to be vegan, and I can’t comment on the viability of that diet (though the fact that @SadieMartinPaul is still with us seems to be a good data point). But that all seems outside the scope of this question in any case, since it’s about eating meat.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Haha! Carrots, duck, stew, grain, pot…I do believe we just dissolved the issue. :/ Your OK, everyones OK and I’m not hungry anymore. Lol.

OpryLeigh's avatar

@tom_g I have had similar conversations when people have discovered that I don’t drink alcohol. Apparently “I just don’t like any of the alcoholic drinks I have tried so far in my life” isn’t a good enough answer.

@Coloma I can relate to everything you have said in your posts on here.

flip86's avatar

@thorninmud Your comment made it seem like you were a vegan. I assumed when you said animals you were including all animal products. You also seemed to disregard the idea that humans are omnivores, so that further convinced me you were vegan.

flip86's avatar

I need to correct a mistake. Above, I wrote carnivores when I meant to say omnivores.

“The point of my comment was to illustrate that humans are in fact omnivores”

OneBadApple's avatar

@Jonesn4burgers Of course we can go to Longhorn together. You won’t even have to look at the menu. Trust me, I know what all the best items are (although they are the costliest), and promise that you will not leave the restaurant disappointed.

Oh, and uh…..I’ll have to ask you to pick it up, since I lost my wallet in…..let’s see…....oh yeah, 1987.

Yeah, that’s the ticket…...1987….

ibstubro's avatar

Do they have any non-meat items, @OneBadApple? I’m just curious. I guess I could go look online.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

@Coloma “One thing I do not like is the premise that being vegan somehow elevates one to some “superior” status.”

Yeah, with the Hitler thing and all, that kind of shot that myth all to hell for me.

glacial's avatar

I guess we can all stop waiting for Godwin now.

OneBadApple's avatar

@ibstubro Well,let’s see….

For their occasional weenie— umm -more feminine non-meat-eating customers, Longhorn does have offerings like the below…

“Apple Harvest Salad
Crisp Fuji apples, pecans, dried cranberries, sweet potato crisps and spinach in an apple cider vinaigrette. Welcome to harvest Heaven”.

It will be OK if you want to look down piously at Jonesy and me as we loudly chew on prime rib covered in sauteed mushrooms…...with our mouths open….

ibstubro's avatar

That sounds disgusting @OneBadApple.

I was thinking seafood.

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Stop global warming, save the humans and save our future.
Maybe all you weenie meat eaters should stop denying and ignoring that, or maybe you aren’t quite ready to give up that +50% of you’re daily intake of protein for the little boy in the video screaming about his future. o_O

Something I’d like to know @flip86, you say “Thus, we need to get B12 from animal sources.”
How is that even true?
There are people with vitamin B12 deficiency, and there is a shot for those people with vitamin B12 deficiency, so what I would like to know is if it is true what you say, “Thus, we need to get B12 from animal sources.” then really there is no need for that shot because those peoples lives could not be sustained by that shot of B12 since it is man made and according to you ”we need to get B12 from animal sources.”, so shouldn’t they just eat more meat? Clearly that really isn’t the answer.

Because, yes animal meat is the best source of vitamin B12 but the deficiency is not just in vegans and vegetarians.

Vegans and vegetarians should know this though :)

OneBadApple's avatar

Sometimes, I wish that I could B12 again….

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Ironically speaking, when you get older not only may you start wearing diapers again and regress back to infancy you may have to B12 for a change because older people have difficulty absorbing B12 naturally found in food, but not the vitamin B12 in supplements or fortified foods.

Seek's avatar

Can’t help myself…

How do you know there’s a vegan at your party?

—Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.

ibstubro's avatar

Not necessarily true, @Seek_Kolinahr. “Light my cigarette?”

KaY_Jelly's avatar

Well now I can’t help myself ㋛

So no I won’t actually speak any words, I’ll just go outside get some dirt and start burying the food in a ritualistic manner and then I will pull out the voodoo dolls that I have previously made of all the weenie eaters and really start to party. (◣_◢) (◑‿◐)

BiZhen's avatar

Yes, humans are natural omnivores, so we certainly need to consume both animal and plant tissues for proper nutrition. PETA and ALF have caused much trouble with their lies that arouse hysteria over natural diet. It is absurd for an omnivore to try to be a herbivore. We are Humans, not Cattle, so we cannot survive by eating only grass.

longgone's avatar

@BiZhen You should check your source. For centuries, the majority of humans have been living as vegerarians. Meat is expensive. People living without meat are doing fine all over the world. Your view is outdated.

flip86's avatar

@KaY_Jelly The fact that humans can die without enough B12 is proof that we evolved as omnivores. The only source for this vitamin is animals. B12 supplements are irrelevant. and do nothing to prove that humans are not omnivores.

@longgone Cite your source. Show me proof of all these non-animal consuming societies. You can’t, because you’ll never find a society that was/is strictly vegan. Never.

Coloma's avatar

Dinner: Cheese sandwich and watermelon. The best of both worlds. lol

longgone's avatar

@flip86 Neither I nor the OP were talking about vegans.

flip86's avatar

@longgone If you claim to be a vegetarian, yet still consume animal products, you are not a vegetarian. This is why vegans get brought up. People try to argue that humans can survive solely on plants. They cannot.

whitenoise's avatar

@flip86 a lot of people in this world would consider themselves vegetarians and still drink milk and eat dairy, for instance.

Hundreds of millions of people in India don’t eat animals and they still seem to do well, overall.

whitenoise's avatar

@flip86
Please check this wikipedia lemma it offers a lot of citations though which you can verify their statements on the health effects of vegetarianism.

“Scientific endeavors in the area of vegetarianism have shifted from concerns about nutritional adequacy to investigating health benefits and disease prevention.[...] The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and Dietitians of Canada have stated that at all stages of life, a properly planned vegetarian diet is “healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases”.[...] Large-scale studies have shown that mortality from ischaemic heart disease was 30% lower among vegetarian men and 20% lower among vegetarian women than in non-vegetarians.[...] Vegetarian diets offer lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol and animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals.[…]”

flip86's avatar

@whitenoise Those people who still eat milk, eggs and cheese are smart. Still though, they are not living purely on plants. They still get nourishment from animal sources.

Show me a statistic like that on vegans.

flip86's avatar

@whitenoise I was not really addressing the OP. My comments were towards @KaY_Jelly

longgone's avatar

@flip86 What @whitenoise said. Yes, it is definitely possible to eat animal products as a vegetarian. Eating dairy and eggs – but no meat – is called “ovo-lacto-vegetarianism”. Living as a vegan is hard, while living as a vegetarian is comparatively easy. It’s being done all over the world.

flip86's avatar

@longgone Is fish and seafood included in that? Or is that another sub-category of vegetarianism? I’ve heard some people claim that fish isn’t meat.

dxs's avatar

@flip86 Perhaps those people are Catholic.

dxs (15160points)“Great Answer” (0points)
Coloma's avatar

Well…ethical and health reasons aside, bottom line, we HAVE to die of SOMETHING.
The stats show that cancer rates peak in ones 60’s, followed by heart disease in the later 60’s-70’s, and, if one makes it to about 85 you are then looking at a slow and miserable decline into dementia and ancient, decrepit old age. No thanks.
Seriously, I think this whole push to live to be 100+ philosophy is so flawed.

The burden on family, the health care system, the government is too big a burden to shoulder.
By 2050 there will be, an all time high of seniors, the largest population EVER, in the history of the world. We will not be able to sustain masses of old folks. I hope to die at a reasonable, younger age, so, bring on the steak and lobster and loaded baked potatoes, and don’t forget the beer and cheesecake. lol

longgone's avatar

@flip86 An omnivore who eats fish – but no other animals -would be called a pescetarian.

ibstubro's avatar

Pescetarian, is ME, then.

Coloma's avatar

Then am I a shrimpetarian?

janbb's avatar

@Coloma Well, you are short! :-)

Coloma's avatar

@janbb Haha…and getting rounder in my middle age. A well rounded shrimp.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Yes, as long as they are cooked properly and served with a side of potatoes.

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