Security then quality of life (experiences) then things.

Security is first for me, too. Then it’s divided between what I can get for myself and what I can get for others, assuming I don’t bank the money.

“Enough is abundance to the wise.”
—Euripides

Let me see if I understand, because I’m confused by the answers so far. Suze is saying people first. So, money to her is number 2 I guess? It looks to me like the jellies thus far aren’t ranking money against people, but rather how they use and perceive their money. If I follow how other jellies are answering I would say:

1. Savings to feel secure.
2. Affording to live in a place where I feel safe.

Third place is a toss up, a mess of things I can’t rank. Experiences like travel, museums, concerts, and shows. Helping others. Seeing doctors and dentist or whatever type of medical professional I might need who is not on my insurance, or even is. Along with that buying brand medication when I want to rather than generic.

Live below your means.

If you make $500 a month, your expenses should be no more than $450.

Put $40 in savings.

Diversity.

Due accounts first, necessities and there’s not much left after that, if anything. I always managed to save for things I need, birthday and Christmas presents though. Income has not reduced but boy things have gone up in price.

My car comes first as, without it being roadworthy and street-legal, I won’t be getting to work to earn more money. Insurance, gas, registration, maintenance ... it’s easily $300/month.

Rent and utilities come next since I need someplace to be other than my car or at work. And my wife likes living indoors and having electricity too. Our place is relatively cheap for the area, so that’s only ~$1100/month.

After that, it’s just whichever creditor is yelling the loudest. It’d be nice to save, but I consider that a luxury that those who have ever been sick,injured, or laid off can’t really afford.

Still, I value quality of life over net worth. I’m not about to live in my car eating canned beans just to have a decent investment portfolio. People before profit!

@ibstubro Sadly, for many these days, living indoors is living above your means, but that’s a whole other discussion.

Money is 3rd my list of priorities. I’m very frugal yet I care little about money. I just hand it all over to my personal financial consultant and advisor (my wife).
1. Safety/family
2. Good health/fitness
3. Money/power/security
4. Everything else

@ibstubro

Nice in idea, but often not possible in reality.

The tricky part is safety and taking care of family often has a price tag in most parts of western society.

The answers demonstrate the vagueness of the question. @JLeslie has stated the issue well. Are we talking discretionary income? My priorities are pretty much dictated as are most people’s, and begin with those matters most involved with deflecting the wolf from my door. It’s a droll list, and we all know it. The mortgage, groceries, insurance, utilities. The process always leaves me depressed with the realization that the vast majority of one’s life as well as the dispersal one’s fortune boils down to just plain old monotonous maintenance.

@stanleybmanly Quite so, and that is why there are times I really hate being an adult. Then again, freedom isn’t free.

That feeling when the euphoria of getting your paycheck is promptly followed by the crash of realizing that most of the money is already accounted for…

My priorities have changed as I’ve gotten older. These days, staying well (enough) and having money (enough) to stay independent top my list.

Of course it’s possible, @jerv & @Darth_Algar.

Spend less than you make.

I have been on unemployment and saved $25 a month. Of course, I had to freeze milk in ice cube trays in order to eat the generic boxed Mac-N-Cheez (Which I HATE), but I dialed down and came out ahead. You eat, wear and use the cheapest you can find, gently.

@ibstubro Last time I was unemployment, I got $1,000/month. Rent on a cheap place was $850/month. That $150 had to pay for food (for two; my wife needs nutrition too), utilities, healthcare, and the means to even get to job interviews. This isn’t the 1980s, and not all of us live in the Midwest. Just remember that your circumstances don’t apply to everyone, so your “solution” won’t work for everyone.

Then you change your circumstances.
I couldn’t find enough pay to make ends meet in St. Louis, so I moved.
Ya do what you gotta do, and if that doesn’t work, you do something else.

Yes, I’ve been on hard times. Yes I was once ‘taken in’ by my aunt. All I’m saying, @jerv, is that like you, I triumphed over all. My message is not that I’m Superman, but that you have to set your mind to it, and do it, do it, do it.

@ibstubro

Honestly, if it were as simple as changing your circumstances and “do it, do it, do it” for everyone don’t you think more people would?

Relevant.

@ibstubro You couldn’t make it someplace that’s cheaper than anyplace I’ve ever lived? Back when wages were relatively higher? And you had someone to take you in? And the means to relocate?

Sorry, that’s not triumph. Lose the safety net, then stick it out and make it work instead of running away, and maybe I’ll call it a triumph. All you did was face the same challenge many millions face every day, got scared, and ran back to your comfort zone.

No, honestly I think many people are stubborn and would rather cry “Woe is me!” endlessly, rather than take action and improve themselves. @Darth_Algar.

Relevant @SavoirFaire

Really? @jerv? I kind of think that owning 2 properties, a late model car and being debt free +retired at 53 validates my choices? My major source of income? Working on the line in a fucking food factory for 20 years. I did not face a challenge. I was unskilled.

I don’t see where running on the hamster wheel of high-cost-of -iving/low-wage is more valid.

Okay, here’s where we play the ‘you so living in the 90’s card, even though my home was paid for 10 years ago in cash, and I drive a late model Camry, also paid.

@ibstubro So… the solution is to move to a small town in the Midwest? A region of the country I would take my first paycheck to buy a plane ticket out of? Actually, it might take 2–3 checks; there isn’t much in the way of industry that uses the the skills of my trade, so if I went to the Midwest, I’d take a hell of a pay cut! There is a reason that property in the Midwest is so cheap, and it’s tied to the reason that the coasts are more popular; the only people that want to live in the Midwest are mostly those who were born there and are unable/afraid to leave.

It may be a little easier for you as you’ve always been about where you are, while I have always lived closer to where the majority of Americans live; three decades in the Northeast, and another decade on the West Coast. And it seems that the people I have the worst problems with as they say things I cannot let slide are all from the Midwest, leading me to believe that the majority of people there are the type of people that would make me feel unwelcome simply because I am who I am.

So tell me, would you live somewhere you felt unwelcome simply because you can live like a king on minimum wage, or are you willing to endure a little financial struggle in order to not be an outsider in your own hometown? I don’t see where selling your identity, personality, opinions, beliefs, and basically your soul for a little prosperity is valid. What use is being financially well-off if you’re fucking miserable?

Also, what do you consider “low wage”? I think we both agree that $20k/yr is poor, but how about $40–50k? Most of the people I know who are having the worst problems are in that range.

As for your house, odds are that what you paid for it would barely be a down payment either here or where I used to live. I looked at property prices near you, and have to say that I didn’t even see prices like that in the ‘80s.

One thing I think we can agree on is that one’s priorities depend a bit on your upbringing and your life experience. A person born-and-raised where everything is cheap, and big cities are considered decadent places of excess will have different opinions from one who grew up where things were twice as expensive. One who has always had an escape route and help available will have different ideas from one who has always had to either make it on their own or fall where they are with no retreat or reinforcements/assistance possible.

In short, @ibstubro, I think that much of the reason you and I cannot see eye to eye here is simply because we come from two very different backgrounds, we’ve had different life circumstances and opportunities, and that has led us to make different decisions and have different opinions. And, if the lurve is a clue, it seems that my life is a bit closer to the average American’s than your’s is.

LOL, @jerv.

Yup, you’re right. I concede. Fluther lurve is the ultimate indicator of the average American way of life.

Excellent point. Score and game.

@ibstubro I think that a concensus view of multiple people from the sort of places where most Americans live is more representatives than one guy from an area that almost nobody lives in. I think that America is a more diverse place than rural Missouri. And I think you’ve just demonstrated perfectly why I don’t want to live in the backwards backwoods of America; I would have to narrow my mind too much.

You have one of the narrower minds I’ve encountered, @jerv.

When I visited NYC people stopped me and asked for directions. Many times. My confident openness made people assume I was a native. You have projected a persona on me, and refuse to entertain any other in any circumstance.

…backwards backwoods of America; I would have to narrow my mind too much. is intended to demonstrate your broadmindedness?

Your powers of deductions are great. 3 = “multiple people from the sort of places where most Americans live.” How do you know I didn’t give you a GA for the debate? How do we know that you don’t have 3 different accounts and are GAing yourself? Or, are you saying that you know the other members that GAed you, and you’re colluding to inflate your Lurve for the sake of argument?

You’re talking out of your ass and calling it gospel, or you’re gaming the system.

@ibstubro I can only comment based on my own experiences. Maybe my experiences really are atypical, but they are what I have lived through. And I only know you through my rather limited interactions with you here. What I know is that my time in the Midwest had me wanting to leave, and that I have rarely (in fact, nearly never) had the same sorts of tension and bad blood with New England natives, Californians, Seattlites, Aussies, Kenyans, or any other group as I have had with people from a couple regions of the US, while it seems that, 9 times out of 10, those I do have issues with turn out to be from one of those two regions.

I wish it were otherwise as I have met some decent people from those areas, and I know that those places aren’t all full of disagreeable people. But the empiricist in me has to go with the weight of the evidence and conclude that those two regions would not be a good place for me to live regardless of the financial situation as they have a higher proportion of people I would have issues with than anywhere else in the world that I have been so far. Yes, I felt more at home in the UAE than in Kansas! I’ve been around quite a bit, and dealt with a lot of different cultures. And many in Hong Kong, Perth, and San Diego also confused me for a native; truth is that I’m actually a Bostonian who moved young.

As for me having 3 accounts and patting myself on the back, I would know if that were the case. No, the truth is that I just happen to know the distribution of the population of the US and play the odds; I figure that the majority of people are likely to be from where most of the people in the US live. Granted, it’s a small sample size, so my confidence in that isn’t nearly high enough for certainty, but I do know enough math (especially statistics and probabilities) to make an informed guess.

And I’ve seen enough people and heard enough life stories to know that, unless there are details I haven’t heard yet, your’s is slightly out-of-the-norm. Even being able to move back once you found out the big city life wasn’t for you is atypical; where would you have been if you didn’t have an aunt (or anyone else) to take you in? That one thing right there is an uncommon stroke of luck.

I also know that, while my luck has been somewhat worse than average, I am also “wealthy” enough to at least have a fighting chance if I keep my head on straight, but that right there actually makes me luckier than many. When was the last time you had a major catastrophe that wiped out your savings, cut off your income source (too injured to work), and racked up medical bills in the five-figure range? If that happened before you had gotten nearly where you are today (say, 25 years ago), would you be in the same place you are now, or would it have taken you a little time to dig yourself out of that hole? How would you make rent if there were nobody to help you? How would you move if all your money went away? I know that sometimes things happen to people that are beyond their control, and that not all are as lucky as I am. You have given no indication that you know that, but quite a few indications that you refute that.

And no, collusion requires having people like me. This may come as a surprise to you, but I’m not exactly likable. If anyone gives me a GA, it’s on the merits of the answer, not on any real love for me. I don’t go out of my way to be an asshole either though; I just tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. While I suppose it’s remotely possible that you did give me a GA for the debate, I doubt it; I’ve had enough disagreements at all levels of civility to know that those who are sarcastic and combative tend to not do that sort of thing.

I know for a fact, @jerv, that in calling out Midwesterners, you are lumping, me, @jonsblond, @blondsjon, @jonesn4burgers and @Dutchess_III together, just to name the ones that immediately come to mind.

Myself excluded, those are some pretty diverse and productive members.

@jerv, i’m sorry you have a family that is non-supportive

@ibstubro I think you missed the part where I said “I wish it were otherwise as I have met some decent people from those areas, and I know that those places aren’t all full of disagreeable people.”, but bear in mind that I deal with far more people than just jellies. Then again, @jonsblond and @Dutchess_III and I have had a few squabbles before I even knew where they were from, which implies that there is some fundamental personality conflict. Hell, even the fact that you and I argue so much despite me actually liking you is a sign that maybe me moving to the Midwest would be a bad idea.

As for the non-supportive family, it’s more about ability than willingness. Check PM…

@ibstubro If you think that link is a response to me in any way, you missed my first answer. Besides, the image I shared was about the unfounded optimism that everyone’s circumstances are amenable to change, not the merits of minimalism.

I gotta ask @ibstubro, did you actually read that link? Or did you just do a little Google-fu, see “10 ways to have more money and stuff” and post it without further thought? Most of that page is just abstract, “be a better you”, self-help type drivel. Fluffy and pretty and surely worthy of an Oprah endorsement, but of no material value.

I did, indeed, miss your first post, @SavoirFaire, and I apologize for that. Perhaps I read it at another time, and failed to make the connection.

Well, @Darth_Algar, since we’re a pretty diverse group, the only things that are going to apply to everyone necessarily vague. You’re probably just upset that I didn’t post something you could pick apart and argue about. I mean face it…either it’s not specific enough to argue about, or you disagree, in a nonspecific and unsupportable way.

I only started following this thread. READ. THIS. BOOK! It’s awesome! It will totally challenge your concept of what it means to live inexpensively.
http://www.amazon.com/Cheapskate-Monthly-Makeover-Debt-Proof-Living/dp/0312954115

@ibstubro No worries.

@snowberry I think everyone knows it’s possible to scrimp and save. The problem is that you can’t save your way out of every financial problem. I have a close friend who lives with his mother. They’ve always just barely skated by. Then his mother got cancer. They can’t move (not only can they not afford the upfront costs of relocating, they already live in the cheapest apartment in one of the cheapest towns in the country). He has had no luck finding a better paying job (though he did finally get promoted at his current job). It looks like the “cheapskate” or “redefine what counts as enough” solution to this problem is “let mom die.” Sure, that might make the numbers work. But we wouldn’t want to mistake price for value.

People who have good health insurance don’t realize how lucky they are. One of the main reasons why my husband and I filed for bankruptcy 5 years ago was due to medical bills. No second or third job was going to get us out of the mess we were in. Our bankruptcy is over and we are now finding ourselves in medical debt again. No second or third job will get us out of this mess. I foresee a future of never ending medical bills and we will most likely never see a retirement. At least I won’t. I know I’ll have to work until I die to help support our family in the future.

How do we live below our means with endless medical bills? We moved. My husband found better work close to home. We found a nice 3 bedroom home on acreage for $450 a month. Where else in the country are you going to find a deal like that? We wouldn’t have to worry about money so much if we didn’t have these endless medical bills. and don’t get me started on the dental work our family needs with no dental insurance to help.

Why can’t you get help from Illinois for the medical bills, @jonsblond?

State help @ibstubro? My husband makes too much for us to qualify for assistance.

Not even Obamacare for the medical, @jonsblond? That bites.

I had several months without insurance that included a trip to the ER and a CT scan. Even with insurance now, it doesn’t pay for everything. There are also the high deductibles and premiums to consider. It’s not easy when a person like me needs multiple tests and scans.

“Obamacare” isn’t an aid program like Medicare and Medicaid. “Obamacare” is a regulatory overhaul.

That’s largely my issue too; medical bills combined with earning too much to get government assistance. Even routine care isn’t free, and ER visits are not always avoidable. My wife has had a few issues of her own, and as I type this, I’m on my second night of a hospital stay that started with a CT, MRI, and lumbar puncture in the ER. Tell me how to save money on that!

Even with my insurance, this will likely run a few thousand dollars that I don’t have, but I really don’t see a feasible alternative to spending more than I make. Even people who do everything right often get screwed by healthcare.

^We may disagree now and then but my heart aches when I read this. I feel your pain and I only hope for the best for you and your wife, @jerv.

Our medical system sucks. It’s very depressing. I can afford medical care, but I feel robbed all the time. I know that doesn’t compare to not being able to afford it.

@jerv Make sure you ask what the out of pocket cost is without insurance. It sometimes is much lower for CT’s and other procedures, the negative is it won’t work off your deductible if you have one.

@JLeslie I’ll try to remember that for when I’m in a frame of mind to make that decision before the test; no head trauma, not seizing, and generally otherwise not incapacitated, Life doesn’t always give us the luxury of time to weigh options though. How many people do you see comparison shopping “under fire”? Do you compare ambulance prices after an accident the way you would a taxi ride? That sort of responsible behavior is often limited to stuff that is planned; almost by definition, anything involving an ER is unplanned.

@jerv I completely understand. That is part of the extortion of the system. I really feel it is extortion. I meant after the fact anyway, that’s when your bills will start coming in. Before the fact is better, but in your type of situation it is practically an impossibility.

I hope you’re better soon.

Thanks, @JLeslie . But it goes to show how predation is practically the defining feature of our economy. Free market in America is an illusion,

@jerv You can though sometimes negotiate hospital charges down if you are not going through insurance. They may be negotiable even after the fact.

I’m personal friends with one of the people that negotiate or negate payment for people without insurance at the local hospital, @janbb. She’s told us that she can get us off the hook if we get hooked.

I just got paid yesterday, so the first priority was to pay the bills, the next priority, at this time of year, buy Christmas gifts and then I come in dead last. The payment of bills always has first priority.