Only if it gets serious.

@cletrans2col: “With the increase in notoriety of Caitlyn Jenner, Janet Mock, and Laverne Cox, there will be more people that come out as trans.” [my emphasis]

I’m not sure that this is the word you’re looking for. That means being famous for doing something bad.

It’s estimated that there are around 700,000 people in the U.S. who are transgender. When you say “come out as trans”, what do you mean? If I were born male and now identify as woman, would “coming out” mean announcing that I was born male or more likely to not pretend to be a man for society?

@cletrans2col: “I’ve read on this people have said that because trans people view themselves as “women/men” that there is nothing wrong with presenting themselves that way and should not have to say it. Agree or disagree?”

There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone presenting themselves as their gender, period. If I were born male and identified as a woman, I would be a woman. So, that would be the gender I present myself as, right?

Who “should” they “have to say it” to?

If I was born a man and have always been one should I have to announce that? If I did, you would call me a bigot. Take people as you see them and let it go at that. If your planning on having sex, some explanation may be required.

@DoNotKnow: “Who “should” they “have to say it” to?”

I’m an idiot. Didn’t read the question correctly. You’re asking if they should tell the person they are dating. No. Although, I suspect that things could escalate quickly and it might be one of those conversations that a transgender person would want to have. But this isn’t really a “should” conversation. It’s a matter of what works for individuals.

I would want to know from the get go.

If I am seeing someone and I am not wise enough to tell they are not 100% female, I best not discover it with the lights out or I might forget about forgiveness and mercy.

@Hypocrisy_Central: “I best not discover it with the lights out or I might forget about forgiveness and mercy.”

What does this mean? Are you suggesting you would react violently?

I was matched with a Transgender woman on plenty of fish and I guess it is the only way to find a tall woman. I wrote to her and I didn’t explode.

I think it could be safer if they told the individual they’re dating/seeing/etc. ASAP in a place that has plenty of people. Especially if they still have the parts that would identify them as having been of the gender they were born. I know that they no longer identify with their birth gender and I personally support the transgender community in being accepted as their affirmed gender but there are a lot of people who aren’t understanding especially in the Western world.

However, I’m also aware that several studies propose that in a high school setting, steps can be taken to improve the overall social support of the transgender community by increasing awareness and sensitivity, professional training for educators and school personnel, as well as improving upon and adding to services provided as well as the school curriculum.

I know there are many people, despite being pro equal rights, think that transgender rights are not a priority as their community is quite a small one. However, despite their small population, some of the statistics regarding them are frightening if not another part of the sickening reflection we get to see everyday of the failures of our fellow humans and perhaps humanity as a whole. While an old statistic, it’s a bit disturbing to see that between 1985 to about 2000, 20% of all murders within the US were of transgender individuals (this is a community that makes of 2–5% of the population). A more recent statistic for 2011/2012 indicates that out of all the hate crimes committed against the LGBTQA… however the rest of that acronym goes… community, over 40% were the MURDERS of transgender individuals and most of those victims were affirmed females.

I know it’s not a solid argument to make, but when in an argument I often point out that in respect to transgender individuals, Iran is doing better in the civil rights and social support departments than the United States. (Oh I do love the look of patriotic Southerners digesting that Iran is better than the United States in some manner).

Everything hinges on “seeing”. Going steady? Well I don’t know how far the technology has advanced, but any “job” credible enough to fool me should be sufficient. It seems that an issue of this magnitude would be very difficult to conceal from anyone you truly cared for. It’s not like dyeing your hair, a push-up bra or facelift. On the upside, I’d have a tough time coming up with a more certain method for determining the level of commitment than open revelation of a change in gender.

@DoNotKnow What does this mean? Are you suggesting you would react violently?
I am saying I am still human no matter Who I am following, and if I was crazy enough to end up between the sheets with them not being married it would entail that a lot of face sucking and spit swapping was going on before that, and to get to 3rd base and discover a man on it, I am not sure the flesh would not win and I would seek my pound of it doing some pounding of my own. Think what you will, but there are times anyone can simply snap and not care about civility, take a tour of YouTube and you have your answer.

@DoNotKnow I do not mean something bad; I misused the word

@Hypocrisy_Central: “I am not sure the flesh would not win and I would seek my pound of it doing some pounding of my own.”

I’m not sure what to say. You are admitting that you are a danger. Just make sure you don’t date or interact in any way that may result in you hurting someone. In the meantime, if you communicate this to a professional, I’m sure they’d be able to help you figure out what that is all about.

@DoNotKnow You are admitting that you are a danger.
No more of a danger than a person would be until they catch someone trying to creep out of their daughter’s window naked, or seeing someone assault their mother, beating their dog, or slapping them in the face, I am sure if any of those happened calm ordinary people might look like a danger too.

^ I have no idea what you’re talking about, but a professional might.

^ Don’t need a professional, so whether or not you can follow it, it is all good.

It’s up to the individual. But yeah, it might be prudent for some to tell early, lest they end up with some violent asshole who cannot control his emotions.

Why would you hide it? That’s the part that would worry me. If it would matter to the person you are dating.. then they should know. Anything else would be dishonest…

Tell if it looks like things will go beyond the first date.

If it is up to the individual to decide which gender they “identify” as, then it is up to me, as an individual of free choice, to decide whether I want to date gender borns, or gender chosens, or gender rearraingers. I would expect the same respect for my choices as a trans would expect for their choices, so respect my choice enough to speak up right off. Would I harm someone? Not if I am told right up front, and my choice is respected. If you do not inform me, you have removed my choice, and for that, I would become angry. When angered, yes, people can become physical. I resent being told others have a right to choose, but then take someone else’s choices, and get defensive, or find it amusing.
Bottom line; people who want me to respect their choices, should also respect mine.

I totally think that if you are in a relationship, this is a fundamental part of who you really are, and you owe it to your partner to be truthful about it.

They have the right to decide if they can be in a relationship with you knowing all the facts about you.

Considering it’s a huge aspect of someone’s life, I can’t see why they wouldn’t say something. If they felt the need to keep it a secret (though it is understandable why some would be scared to tell the truth, for a lot of reasons) it would indicate to me that they aren’t trustworthy in general. Does it also open up the possibility that someone might turn on them or end the relationship? Yes, of course. But it’s better in the long run, because at least that way they could find someone who was actually willing to love them for who they are.

It comes down to consenting adults can do whatever they want. However, if there’s deception involved then you can’t give consent. That I have a problem with and it’s akin to attempted rape.

@gorillapaws I think I get what you’re trying to say, but I can’t agree with your last statement in any way. Sex is sex, and if you’re willing to have it, that’s that. Not knowing that someone is trans doesn’t amount to rape in any way.

“because trans people view themselves as “women/men” that there is nothing wrong with presenting themselves that way and should not have to say it.”

That’s totally correct. I wish we lived in a safer and more accepting world where it worked that way in real life. Instead we have a situation where a trans person risks their safety either way. If they don’t disclose their past, they could wind up in a situation with some violent asshole who thinks they’ve been “fooled.” But coming out as a trans person isn’t safe either.

I really think that instead of asking about trans people’s responsibilities toward everyone else- disclosing, coming out, whatever- we should be asking ourselves how to make trans people feel safer.

@DrasticDreamer Ok so let’s say you consent to a man blindfolding you and consent to him penetrating you, but instead he penetrates you with a foreign object that you didn’t consent to. That’s a betrayal of your trust and not something you consented to. I would view that as rape, not as “sex is sex.” I’m recalling a case with a pre-op transgender man who was convicted of something for penetrating his young girlfriend with a dildo, pretending it was his penis in the dark. There was a heated discussion here on Flutter about it I believe.

@gorillapaws I completely agree that it’s a betrayal of trust, and I’m not saying it’s right, but I still don’t know if I’m comfortable calling it rape when two people have willingly gone into a sexual situation together.

I don’t know what thread you’re referring to, but with those specifics, that’s closer to what I would call rape, yes, but I’m still not sure if I’m comfortable going that far with it because even in that specific case, the girlfriend wanted sex, or specifically, to be penetrated. I realize that had she known differently, she may have said “no”, which is exactly why it lies in a gray area for me.

At the very least, it’s given me something to think more in depth about, as it’s something I’ve never considered before.

@DrasticDreamer “I realize that had she known differently, she may have said “no.”
For me that’s what makes it wrong. It’s like how you can’t give consent when you’re intoxicated. She can say “yes” but it doesn’t count because if she were sober, she might be saying no.

@gorillapaws True. I’m glad I chose to answer this thread today, because it gave me something to really chew on and it’s been a while.

I’m gay, and I think no matter who I decide to come out to, there will be a period of time for that person to take this news/ information and to react. Of course I assume in the end it won’t matter, but the time it takes depends on how close you guys are, what’s that person’s personal opinion towards the LGBT issue and so on. In a word, it’s like a punch in the face, people get 100% recovery, given enough time.
And to answer this question, my opinion is, try to evaluate the time your SO needs to absorb this information, if you’ve had enough bond or you think this “strike” won’t result as fatal changes in your relationship, then do it, earlier better than later; there’s never guarantee and if you feel like you are not ready, it’s also okay to wait.

And the most important thing I’ve learnt about this is you also don’t have to come out until you REALLY HAVE TO. For example, I don’t have to come out to my parents (but I did, meh) until they start to push me really hard to find someone/ get married (Chinese people’s variety of time of getting married is less than American I guess, while the average age is the same), unless I need their help on this issue.
It’s a very personal choice, and different people’s choices can be absolutely different.

So, I stated my case. Now I will share a personal experience. A young man I knew as a preteen and had a crush on, later he moved away. I saw him once during a visit. (Should I mention this was a very long time ago, before husband and kids?)
This fellow was very nice, and visit me some. The old crush came back with some new extras. I was flattered by his attention, and was feeling a bond. Suddenly, he stopped visiting. I mentioned this all to a friend. She commented that it wasn’t like anything ever would have come of it anyway. This was when I learned he was gay. Guess I was the only one who hadn’t yet heard. I was crushed, but what hurt most was the deception. If he had said to me right off, “Here, I like hanging out with you, and sunrises are beautiful. We can have that, but I am gay, and there won’t ever be anything more.” I would have dealt with that fine. It was the deception in how he behaved, and the information he withheld which upset me. He heard I was angry, and he never visited or called again. He thought I was offended that he was gay. I never got to tell him it was his deception which offended me.
What should people do to make trans persons safe? That is not my responsibility. I haven’t harmed anyone.
If someone (male or female) approached me and said they felt unsafe, would I call for police, then yes, I would, without doing any gender check. But giving up my right to the information which would allow me to make my own decisions regarding my own happiness, I require full disclosure there. If I were going to date someone, and I was taking them out to dinner, I would like to know before we get to the steakhouse that my date is a vegetarian. Out of respect for their choice, I would have chosen somewhere with more available to appeal to my date’s tastes. That is respect. Telling me I gotta like salads and never have steak myself, because that is how you roll, is not right. That needs to be said up front out of respect for me and my choices.
You want garden, eat all the leaves you want, but never snatch a pork chop from my fork.
Full disclosure for me please. Those desiring respect should not be deceiving those they hope to be respected by. What’s good for the goose is good for the identify as gander.

@Here2_4 But from your personal story, it isn’t clear that the person actually did anything wrong. Did he know that you had a crush on him? Was he leading you on, or was he simply being your friend?

Because if he didn’t know, I can’t agree that he did a single thing wrong, as much as learning what you did must have hurt because of the feelings you had for him.

My male friends aren’t under any obligation to state whether or not they’d be interested in a relationship with me before we get to know each other better, just in case I start to develop feelings for them. It wouldn’t be their fault if my feelings turned into more than friendship with them and then I found out that they had a girlfriend – because it’s not necessarily any of my business who they are or aren’t dating.

I didn’t say he did anything wrong, except he made an assumption which kept him from ever hearing my side. He thought I was angry that he was gay. He would not come to the phone when I called, and avoided me when he was in town. I never got to tell him how I felt. My point wasn’t that I had been victimized. In this case, it was both of us, our friendship which suffered. He was so sure he knew how I would react, he just bailed. nobody who was friends with me ever tried to straighten (oops, unintended pun) him out. They felt I was simply best off getting over knowing him.
How far had it gone? He was spending nights, watching sunrises. It had gotten what most people would view as romantic, but no physical interaction. I was relieved he wasn’t moving too fast. It was when he heard I was having feelings he got freaked out. All he had to do was talk, we could have continued watching sunrises. No, my point was not me being victimized. It was an additional example of how not revealing can hurt. We both lost something in the deal. I loved him, but I could have loved him and sunrises still, if only he had spoken up instead of turning tail.
Disclosure is best. I really feel it is, for all involved.

@Here2_4 Okay, I see your point a little better, although I’m still struggling to understand how, unless he knew your feelings for him beforehand, there was any deception involved on his part?

If he knew how you felt about him but was doing all of those things (staying the night, watching the sunrise, etc.) and still chose not to tell you, yeah, I do agree that it wasn’t the right thing to do since it could easily be seen as leading you on. But if he didn’t know how you felt beforehand, there’s a chance that he was just behaving like a friend.

Him just leaving wasn’t right at all and he could have handled it much better, but once he realized how you felt about him, he probably realized how bad it must have looked to you (like he was leading you on), even if it’s what he wasn’t actually doing. Not that him disappearing is ultimately excusable, I’m just offering another possible perspective.

Oh sure, it was long ago. Marriage and three kids later I am fine. I just wanted to tell the story in hopes of helping someone else avoid the same pain for themselves. I am hetero, and that is how I am happy. If he wanted to spend time with me, that would not change me, or him, but some very special, tender moments could definitely have been seen as romantic. He may have been afraid, confused, who knows? If he could have just talked things through with me, maybe my list of current friends could have been one name longer.
I don’t want to be led on, let down, or misperceived as a threat. I just want honesty.
Of course, I would never have been able to be friends with his SO (Yes, he had someone at the time), because that lucky jerk got him and I didn’t. (Stereotypical female jealousy attack.)

Yes, if it looks like a long term prospect. Otherwise, optional.

Surprise is the spice of life.

What @marinelife said x 2.

In a way this is similar to questions I see on some of the cancer forum. Women ask when or if they should tell a potential partner they have had a double mastectomy. Men ask when they should tell they had an oriectomy. The recommendation, generally, is to definitely mention it if there is a chance the relationship is going to proceed to the bedroom.
If you are dinner partners, or play cards, or ski, or jog together regularly that information is optional.

@LuckyGuy Isn’t always a chance that it could go to the bedroom, even on the first date?

If I am on a date with a trans woman I would like to know before I get emotionally or sexually interested. I don’t like surprises.

Assuming the woman is fully post-op does it really matter?

I would think if the non-trans of the two people wants their own children in the future, divulging the fact that one is trans might be of use. Not that every lady is capable of getting pregnant or carrying a fetus, and not that every couple is compatible as far as fertility goes, but the chances would probably be nil right off the bat if one were trans.

@Darth_Algar yes it does

If the friendship / relationship is getting serious, to the point where you think it will be long term tell them.

Totally agree with @marinelife