I don’t think it should be in a high school. Or if you do include it you have to include the other religions. The Koran, etc. I would think I would have learned to avoid the religious questions by now.

If it was read “objectively”, I think schools would take it and run.

I don’t see why. I think Shakespeare, Hemingway, etc., have much more to offer.

It this is applied for countries where Christian doesn’t play an important role like mine, then maybe it’s workable. But it needs to be introduced quickly and categorized as something like “further reading”. Students aren’t so interested to stuff their head with who Jesus is or what’s so special about David for their tests.

deleted by pachy.

Which version? Really, the King James is the only with decent writing to be considered literature.

As a history text, it’s a bit one sided.

And reading for studying religions gets down to version and interpretation. There have been wars over that; way more contentious than a high school teachers guidance.

Only if they read other religious texts alongside it.

Yes, I do – but as others have said, as literature, not as a vehicle for teaching religion.

The problem, and why this won’t work, is that too many teachers will be tempted (or pushed) to teach religion and belief.

I’m not a religious person, but I have read the Bible many times – some of the stories are pretty good as teaching tools (albeit unbelievable)

No, the Bible shouldn’t be read in high school.

Teachers do – and to a degree should – color the reading material they teach. I read the book “Pale Fire” by Vladimir Nabokov in a literature class and thought it was gloriously brilliant. I tried re-reading it on my own recently (all these decades later) and just couldn’t make it work for me. Obviously I had a great teacher that was passionate about the material. If the teacher is a believer, they are going to teach the text in an entirely different manner from a non-believer or a practitioner of another religion. You can only do so much harm butchering a novel, but do that to a religious tract and you’re going to bring the world down around around you.

Finally, the Bible is a book that must be read with faith to make much sense to the reader. I don’t begrudge Christians that, but I also think that those machinations are impossible/undesirable to re-create in the classroom.

My one exception would be a Religion class, where there was a specified amount of time spent on each of the world’s religions, in a respectful way.

I personally love the Bible, and believe and love in God! However, as a Christian, I say that we should appreciate others’ religions. How can one read and learn about the bible without “pushing the religious agenda?” It’s not possible.

Only in a comparative religion class, and only if it is an elective class.

I can’t image why studying the Bible should be even considered unless it is a Christian-based high school.

Too much controversy, too little benefit. I can see some benefit but there is way too much Christianophobia in this country to let it happen. The ACLU and groups like Freedom From Religion would be all over it with lawsuits. You may get away with a class to study the Koran but never a class to study the Bible.

@Jaxk Don’t be ridiculous. Studying the Koran isn’t going to fly either.

As an elective, why not. They offer Theology classes in college. It’s not what people think. My son took it in college. It actually had more to do with the effects of different faiths in society and about understanding the origins of the different faiths and their religious views. The professor only delivered facts about each faith. Not a personal point of view, and each faith, even voodo and devil worship and atheism, witch craft and mother nature and greek gods was discussed.

My son said it opened his eyes and he felt it gave him some insight to why different cultures are the way they are and made him more acceptable of their differences, even if he didn’t agree with a lot of them because he understands the impact that religion can have on a society. He told me that he wished he had the opportunity to take the course when he was younger. He said they had different faith people in the class and there was some good exchanges of personal insight from the other students.

So I see no problem with this. The biggest problems with biases against religions or non religious or agnostics is the lack of information. You can’t truly understand your fellow man by staying ignorant or listening to rumors or misinformation.

No, not unless they’ll also be teaching about Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, gnomes, witches, ghosts, spooks goblins, the boogie man, etc., etc., etc. If some kid wants to read it, no prob. But it shouldn’t be taught, especially in a K-12 public school. The time there should focus on more realistic, usable subjects, not make believe.

It depends on how it’s being used. The bible has influenced society in many ways beyond its religious purpose. So if the curriculum covers aspects of society where law-makers or governors have drawn on the bible to support their decision-making, it would seem perfectly appropriate to analyse it as an influential text. Look at the discussion on Fluther about same-sex marriage. The bible has been cited in that debate. So in a school situation, should a similar debate take place and the bible be suggested as evidence for or against an activity or belief, I’d expect teachers to encourage students to critically analyse what the book actually says and the various interpretations available.

@kritiper, Whats wrong with making it an elective, but like a said, a class on all the faiths or myths, like you suggest.? Elves even. Electives aren’t forced. Only people who want to join it, join it. Music, art, and study group are all electives. And it is real and usable. Tolerance is a useful tool to have when embarking out into the world. To open peoples mind to the fact that their ideas are not one and only belief. People hate what they don’t know and what they believe to be true through rumor and fear and ignorance.

My kids went to a Dutch public school and as part of their curriculum they had a visit to a church, a synagogue and to a mosque.

I didn’t like that idea at all. I cannot expect the respective priests in there to give a open view on their own religions.

I asked the school to include a talk after each visit explaining that and why there was no reason to believe anything the priests said about the validity of their religion to be true. They refused, deemed that insulting. I agreed with that view and that’s why I didn’t like them visiting those places.

“Do you think the bible should be read in high school?”
Of course this would never work..but it’s a good question. Fortunately, there’s more to the bible than a theology discussion. It deserves a more appropriate environment.

@Pandora The problem is there are still too many people who think prayer should be in school, that Christianity is the “right” religion, believe creationism is a scientific theory, many coaches do a group prayer with the kids before a game, peers in school are being used to draw other children into the religion by their church pressuring them to invite other kids to church socials, and a lot of people believe America is a Christian country rather than America being a country whose current majority is Christian. Because of this it’s hard to trust a teacher in a local community, where that community is very Christian, to teach the religion without bias.

Imagine if we are talking about teaching the Quran in Dearborn, MI to your kids. The school is 50% Muslim, half your child’s school friends are Muslim, some of the adults in the community are fighting for their Muslim children to be accommodated in school with places to wash their feet, the coaches for football already start a game with a group Muslim prayer, which has been challenged in some towns. You hear the call to prayer in your home, because the mosque down the street projects it. Now, do you trust all the teachers there to teach the Muslim religion to your Christian kids? Some, maybe most, will teach it in a way that is purely to share knowledge about the religion, but I figure a percentage of teachers won’t be able to help themselves and it will come out biased.

I don’t want my Jewish kids becoming Christian and thinking I’m going to hell in a hand basket, so I would want to “shelter” them to some extent. I love the cultural and traditional stuff for kids. How holidays are celebrated, that sort of thing.

I’m ok with high schools teaching comparative religion. I’m also ok with children taking religion class off school grounds as an elective and getting credit for it, which is what the Mormons do.

College is different. The students are adults.

As much as Mein Kampf.

What literary value does the Bible even have? Book critics would be all over it today, because of the impossibilities and the contradictions it contains.

@Dutchess_III The King James Version is a work of poetry. It is literary, but why would book critics be all over it? It isn’t a text book, so the accuracy has nothing to do with the literary merit.

If it were released as a book today, with hopes that it would hit the New York Times Best Seller list, it would be shredded by critics. It doesn’t even attempt to suspend belief when it talks about miracles and magic. It’s contradictory from one paragraph to the next. One minute it’s loving and kind, and the next God is slaughtering all the life on earth, for no apparent reason.

There are sections of poetry in it. Solomon’s song of songs and Psalms come to mind. The rest is just grasping at straws, trying to explain stuff.

I suppose they could break down the poetic parts, the way my teacher broke down Romeo and Juliet, and analyze it all. That could have some merit. The rest of it, though, is just nonsense.

@ragingloli – I have no problem with students reading Mein Kampf in the context of history. It is an important document that – like it or not – plays a role in German and European history.

Now, I understand that it is not for sale in Germany, but it is in the US.

Context is everything.

If you want people to read the bible for any reason—as a religious text, as literature, as an important document in Western culture, or as a curiosity—outlaw it.

I have not read the other comments yet.
I am a theist and do not think the bible should be taught in high school. Too many people interpret the bible in so many different ways.

@chyna – I disagree with that reasoning – in fact, that’s a point FOR teaching the bible in school – it’s relevant, obviously, because people interpret it differently. Teaching the bible as a subject would help people to understand why people interpret the same book in so many ways.

Just because its controversial, shouldn’t take it out of circulation.

If kids want to read the Christian Bible in school or anywhere else, that’s their right. I don’t think Bible reading has a place in any schools except parochial schools where students and parents would expect that. It might be an important piece of information for Christians, but not all children are Christians.

I’m just thinking, why the bible? Why not ask about the religious book of a different religion besides Christianity? I’m assuming the OP lives in America. In America 70% of the people are Christian. Probably half of that 70% go to some sort of church while they are children. Aren’t they already learning the bible? Wouldn’t it be more interesting for schools to teach about other religions if we are going to teach religion.

Forget that making it ok to teach the bible almost for sure in America won’t be the Catholic version. Is it going to be your Christian sect’s version? Whatever bible version they pick is only going to cover a portion of our Christians.

The more I think about it the more it makes no sense to choose one religion, or. One religious book and only teach that. That is if we are going to teach religion at all in public school.

Only a Christian could be so comfortable in their majority that they assume a bible teaching for sure would be their bible. I’m not saying all Christians are that narrow or naive, I’m only saying if someone does assume that I doubt they are part of one of the religious minorities. Even Christian groups like the Mormons would know allowing the bible probably won’t be their version, unless it happens to be in Utah.

@ragingloli has a point. There should certainly be copies of the book in the school library along with Lolita, Das Kapital and for that matter the comic book autobiography of Sarah Palin. Whether or not time should be taken up in class with the reading of any of them is subjective. I don’t believe anyone is harmed through reading ANYTHING. Great harm however can result from what people are taught.

@Jaxk That’s rather harsh. There’s nothing wrong with bible study. And that isn’t what those organizations you deride object against. It’s the crossing of the line between study and proffering a cult manual as the arbiter of civil matters that is the issue. One glance at the current nonsense emanating from Kentucky should illustrate the point.

@stanleybmanly – I don’t think it is. All those groups would need is to hear the words ‘Public School’ and ‘Bible Study’ used in the same sentence and the lawsuits would fly. I know you want to believe there is a higher purpose for those guys but it doesn’t work that way.

Being somebody still in school i would like to keep religion separate from education. I see no problem with someone reading their bible at school. It’s their choice to do so. The second someone starts forcing it on me it becomes a whole different ball game. Going to school where everybody believes in god that is sort of a hard thing to avoid. I receive the questions ” Why don’t you believe in god?” and “Are you satanic?” often. I don’t want to be judged because i don’t believe in an invisible man in the sky in a place where education is the priority.

Which parts of the Bible? There are passages that are extremely violent. What about the part where Lot’s daughters have sex with him while he is asleep? Yuk, incest! I vote for Ecclesiastes. There are portions that are sheer poetry.

I’m pretty strict on my separation of church and state beliefs. In a comparative religion class I think it’s reasonable, especially if other religious texts are covered: the Koran, the Adi Granth, the Bhagavad Gita, etc. I don’t think the Bible or these other texts should be covered in a literature class because there is so much other material to cover.

I just posted about this on another thread. You can’t study most classic western literature without bumping into religious references. Ignoring books that shaped borders, art and literature is not an education.

We used to play a game called “Where did this famous quote or saying come from”. Can’t cut the bible out of that one. Shakespeare was always a good guess too.

@Adirondackwannabe @reijinni @gorillapaws Hopefully not all religious questions have to unravel into general craziness. I think if the bible were being studied as a religious text, then studying the Koran (and/or other religious texts) would be helpful in offering a more balanced view. But do you think the bible could be studied strictly from a literary/cultural approach?

@dxs How so? Quotes for sarcasm? Is reading the bible objectively not a possibility?

@Dutchess_III From a literary perspective, yes. From a cultural standpoint, I’d have to disagree.

@Mimishu1995 But that’s exactly why I think the bible should be read in America. The bible does play an important role in our culture—regardless of our own religious beliefs. Also, isn’t there a large portion of Vietnam that’s Catholic? I’d imagine it’s relevant there as well. Perhaps not as contentious though. Also, if we taught students based solely on what they are most (initially) interested in, the curriculum would probably include such literary gems like Twilight. :P

@zenvelo As a historical relic and cultural text.

@elbanditoroso @ibstubro @stanleybmanly I agree. Though I also think if a teacher wants to push their religious agenda (whether or not it’s legal to do so), they’re going to do it regardless of the material they’re teaching. In fact, I’d imagine any teacher teaching the bible would be under a greater deal of scrutiny than if they were teaching general ed.

@kimchi Impossible to read the bible pushing the religious agenda? Or disrespectful to?

@JLeslie So you believe the bible should only be studied in a religious context?

@Pied_Pfeffer Because, regardless of our religious views, the bible is culturally relevant.

@Jaxk I have to agree with @JLeslie Don’t think the Koran would have an easier reception.

@Pandora I absolutely agree. But can this be replicated at a high school level? Why or why not?

@kritiper The cultural merit of studying the bible goes beyond whether or not you believe in some kind of divine being. In particular, a discussion of how a literary text can create so many divisive (and dismissive) views would also be beneficial.

@Earthbound_Misfit Yes, that’s a great example of what I was going for.

@whitenoise In that particular example, it seems like the school was trying to expose them to different religions. That has its own merits and challenges separate from what I’m proposing.

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One I think your response caught me the most off guard. I hadn’t considered that. Hmmm…do you think the bible should only be studied in an appropriate (read: religious context)? Do you think there is value to the bible beyond religion?

@ragingloli @elbanditoroso I agree. Mein Kamf should be read—especially in Germany. It has historical and cultural significance beyond its original intent.

@Dutchess_III I agree with @zenvelo, it’s not a textbook. Its cultural value is not dependent on its historical or scientific inaccuracies. And I wouldn’t use the NY Times bestseller list as any kind of barometer of literary value.

@Espiritus_Corvus True. But that would create way cons than pros.

@chyna There seems to be an infinite approaches to the bible from a theist perspective. But I think it can be done more objectively without the religious aspect of it. What do you think?

@elbanditoroso Agreed. Controversy shouldn’t be a criteria for omission.

@JustPlainBarb I disagree. I think the bible is important regardless of whether you’re a Christian or not. Just important for different reasons.

@JLeslie Yes, I’m in America where nearly 70% believe in the bible. (I don’t know if there was a particular Christian designation to this statistic.) That’s exactly why I think the bible is culturally relevant. I don’t think studying other religions would be relevant to the point I’m trying to make. I’m not advocating teaching about religion. I would advocate for reading from different versions of the bible though. But it wouldn’t be to give equal representation to Catholics and Protestants, etc. It would be about taking a multi-approach to understanding a significant cultural text.

@LickA4Skin I wouldn’t want anyone pushing their religion on me either. But I’m not advocating that religion should be taught in school. I’m advocating for the bible to be studied as a significant text—without the religious agenda. Do you believe they are one and the same? Why or why not?

@LostInParadise Not sure. That would warrant more pondering and a separate question. :)

@cazzie I absolutely agree! Seems fitting that you’re the last response before I replied because you basically summed it up for me.

Okay, there’s nothing wrong with studying the bible. The book is a cornerstone of Western literature. I have no more objection to studying the bible than I would to intense study of the Iliad. It’s when the Iliad crosses from literature to a history or biology textbook that I get anxious, and any teacher in a public school hot on utilizing Virgil as fundamental to the study of geology deserves to have his or her credentials seriously questioned. I will admit that there are probably thousands of great teachers in this country who are committed to inculcating the minds of their charges toward a commitment to the bible as the end all and be all final word on everything. Most of them probably get away with it, but that doesn’t make it legal.

@fluthernutter
“Hmmm…do you think the bible should only be studied in an appropriate (read: religious context)?”

I apologize (in advance) that I will probably use a lot of parentheticals. I’ve been reading a J.D. Salinger.

The Bible needs to be studied in a religious context to get the most out of it.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

The reason it wouldn’t work as well to study it in a theological debate type environment is: in order to properly grasp the contents you need to be in a spiritual mindset.

“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.”

In a theology class people/students enter the conversation with an aura of skepticism and uber-(yet occasionally psuedo) objectivity. With this slant from jump street, spiritual concepts are (even if subliminally) excused more readily. It plants a bias to the study which wouldn’t (necessarily) otherwise exist.

The question I have for you is: Why do you suppose it isn’t studied given it’s prestige? If it can properly be studied and respected for its profundity as (at the very least) a historically significant book.. why not study it? I’d wager it’s because there’s more to it than an old document.

The big problem I see with this is in the inability to adjust ones paradigm to fit something beyond the scope of their current paradigm.

“Do you think there is value to the bible beyond religion?”

Absolutely. There is enough wisdom in the Bible to last a lifetime. Dismissing that wisdom because of a misunderstanding of other portions of the Bible is common.

Not surprisingly, you probably won’t see the following quotes in a history class either. Why not?

“We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand, which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.” – Abraham Lincoln

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.” – James Madison

“Finally, it is my most fervent prayer to that Almighty Being before whom I now stand, and who has kept us in His hands from the infancy of our Republic unto the present day, that He will so overrule all my intentions and actions and inspire the hearts of my fellow-citizens that we may be preserved from dangers of all kinds and continue forever a united and happy people.” – Andrew Jackson

There are many, many more.

Well, the same could be said of the Koran, too, @Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One

@Dutchess_III
You’re absolutely right. Without studying the Koran with a spiritual mindset you’d be wasting your time too. That doesn’t mean you agree with or believe everything in it. But you are at least in the right state of mind. (Somehow I knew you’d be first to answer)

I just happened to be here. Gave myself a break from building The Shelves From Hell.

@fluthernutter True, there is a large propotion of Catholics in Vietnam, but the number is just a drop of water compared to the propotion of Buddlism, and even smaller compared to the propotion of agnostics and atheists (I’m not sure about the atheist part but some people seem to reject the idea of God). Beside, we don’t have the same level of interest in religion like Americans. Even Buddlism doesn’t get the chance to be taught properly at school, let alone Christian. You can say we don’t have a mindset for religion.

So you can say the Bible doesn’t play any significant role in our life. Ask about the bible around and you’ll see many people giving you very general answers like the Bible is about Jesus. Some even don’t know what you’re talking about. And almost no one is so interested in just glancing at it.

The teacher teaching the bible has to have a significant knowledge of the Bible, which is quite hard to find here unless you bring a priest. And the teaching would just make students’ eyes roll around, since most of them don’t have any knowledge nor interest. I’m thinking about the moaning if the bible enter the tests. They would think that the schools were trying to brainwash them. Not to mention a possible flame war among students if among them are Christians and the Christians use their belief to argue with the teachers or the (agnostic or atheist) classmates.

That’s what I think might happen in Vietnam. I don’t know about the US, maybe the flame wars will be bigger?

@fluthernutter I think I was unclear. I meant to say that districts or, less importantly, teachers may put their own spin on it to maybe try and push a “religious agenda” (I hate that term but I can’t think of a less biased way to put it so bear with me).

@fluthermutter I only want it taught in a religious context if we are talking about high school, I don’t want it taught as literature, because for the most part I say bullshit! The schools teaching the bible want to get the bible into the school. I don’t trust them. Plus, I prefer my kid not be in a class full of Christian children learning about the Christian’s religious book. College I don’t care. In high school I’m only ok as a comparative religion class.

I don’t need to believe in an invisible sky father to understand biblical references in another work.

We read Dante and Milton Senior year. Can’t swing a cat there without some reference to the bible. I refused to capitalise the word ‘god’ on my homework. My teacher corrected me by asking how I would write Zeus. . so we compromised. I wrote Christian god or their god. God isn’t the Christian gods name. He was fine about it. (The teacher was fine, I mean. Jury is still out on the other one.)

@dxs you said, ” ....that districts or, less importantly, teachers” may put a spin on it. I think you have that reversed.

@cazzie I don’t disagree with you, but in the Bible Belt I would argue pretty much they are simply trying to get the bible in school. The intention is not on the up and up.

One of the valedictorians of my school did an independent study on the bible his senior year. That was over 25 years ago. Nobody objected, most likely because it was his independent study and he wasn’t subjecting anyone else to it.

Lol. I’m just thinking, just to support @cazzie‘s point, that when I say my husband’s name, if someone doesn’t catch it, I say, “like the King.” It’s a biblical reference, and I’m always surprised when the Christians down in the Bible Belt still didn’t know the name I’m saying. Many did know, but a surprising amount didn’t.

What is your husband’s name @JLeslie?

Ahashuerus

What is he, some kinda dinosaur?? Or is it a 70’s thing, “Hash R Us.”

Well, I think bible can be read if you want. But no need to require every one to read.

Not only no need @kendallhadid123, but it would be quite illegal to require everyone to read it.