General Question

flo's avatar

What is wrong with the following paragraph about front loading washing machines?

Asked by flo (13313points) August 17th, 2015
54 responses
“Great Question” (1points)

I got it from http://tinyurl.com/q4nakdh Reason number 4.
_*“No need for harsh chemicals
Front-load washing machines eliminate the need to add bleach or other harsh chemicals to get your clothes clean. High-efficiency laundry detergents use a higher concentrated formula so your clothes are rinsed better. Additionally, a front-load washing machine is capable of reaching hotter water temperatures to get your clothes cleaner.”*_

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Answers

ibstubro's avatar

Wrong in what way?
I see nothing wrong with the content.
Some owners may still choose to use bleach, so perhaps it should say ”...machines largely eliminate the need…”.

flo's avatar

Wrong in any way, whatever you see.
What is wrong or what are the wrong things, if any?
Sometimes there is “What is wrong with…?” as in I don’t see anything wrong, and sometimes the opposite, right?

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
JLeslie's avatar

Front loaders are notorious for getting moldy, so you have to use bleach or extra hot sanitizing cycles every so often to keep them clean.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I fail to see what being a front loading washer has to do with not needing bleach, or reaching hotter water temperatures. Your water temperature is set at the hot water tank.
Also, the sentence “High-efficiency laundry detergents use a higher concentrated formula so your clothes are rinsed better,” makes no sense to me either.

JLeslie's avatar

The washer can make the water temp hotter if it has a heating coil.

The rinsed better part doesn’t make sense to me either.

flo's avatar

Exactly @Dutchess_III.

You press your choice of temperature, with the top loaders the hot water starts immediately, I don’t see the “reaching” it’s referring to.

“High-efficiency laundry detergents use a higher concentrated formula so your clothes are rinsed better.” That makes no sense. The clothes are rinsed better if you don’t put too much detergent in the first place, that is all. Most people tend to put more than recommended in the instruction, which makes machine clog up by the way, and the clothes last less long.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (2points)
JLeslie's avatar

I think my sanitizing cycle is 160 degrees? Or, maybe it is 140? I’m having a memory lapse. Much hotter than hot water through the tap either way.

I know my dishwasher is around 150 degrees also.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The premise is that since the “high efficiency ” detergents require so small a dosage per load of laundry ( compared to traditional detergents), the soap is more effectively removed from the wash during the rinse cycle.

JLeslie's avatar

@staleybmanly It requires less soap because there is less water.

stanleybmanly's avatar

That isn’t the point. The argument is that the ratio of detergent to volume of water is far lower for “high efficiency” detergents, and the soap is more readily rinsed from the laundry.

JLeslie's avatar

Is that the case? I figured the ratio was fairly consistent. That we use ⅓ less detergent, because there is ⅓ less water. I don’t know if that is the actual fraction, I just used it as an example.

stanleybmanly's avatar

no the ratio is significantly lower. In fact in modern front loaders, you’re not supposed to use conventional detergents. The article doesn’t state some facts so they are readily understood. For example, it’s simply faster and more efficient to heat a smaller volume of water, as well as maintain the temperature once the desired level has been attained. It’s been recognized for at least 50 years that front loading machines provide superior results. They are just more problematic technically than top loaders, and in the past were more susceptible to problems because of this.

cazzie's avatar

My highest temperature setting is 90C. I use less than 40 ml of washing powder. I only have smelly problems if I leave the clothes in there for two days. Easily fixed by washing a load of towels on hot. I never use fabric softener. I will use a non bleach booster like Oxyclean if required.

JLeslie's avatar

@stanleybmanly I use HE detergent.

@cazzie If I run the extra hot cycle it gets rid of any moldy smell. I also leave the door hanging open after a wash so the washer doesn’t stay damp. Supposedly, the brand I own changed how the water drains since I purchased it, making it better, and less likely to mold.

I don’t use fabric softner either, although it’s recommended with my washer. They say dryer sheets ruin the dryer sensors. I use them anyway.

Strauss's avatar

If we are discussing content, see above…

If we are discussing grammar, I see several errors that I would correct if I were the writer or editor.

si3tech's avatar

I had a front loader which was great until it got soooo moldy. (60 years ago I had an old Bendix
front load washer which had to be bolted to the floor which or it would “walk away” from the wall). I don’t recall a moldy/mildew issue with it.

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly Whichever machine is being used, whichever detergent is being used too much soap is what leads to not properly rinsed clothes.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
JLeslie's avatar

I just googled a little and found this article about cost regarding front loader v. top
loader. I thought some jellies here might be interested. It doesn’t talk about clothing, which one could argue clothes are likely to last a little linger being washed in a front loader.

@stanleybmanly It says the water use is ⅓ less, so would that mean the water to soap ration is staying the same in your opinion, or do you calculate it differently? Maybe I’m missing something. I agree that keeping the temp of the water extra hot for sanitizing probably is easier with less water. I wasn’t aware, or never considered the water continues to be heated. I had assumed the water is just heated before it comes out into the drum.

Dutchess_III's avatar

(I would think washing in such hot, Hot, HOT, HOT water would lessen the life of your clothes.)

stanleybmanly's avatar

@JLeslie. The article doesn’t state that front loaders use “⅓ less water”. It says that the machine requires ⅓ the water of a top loader. In other words, you can wash 3 loads of laundry in a front loader with the same amount of water required for one load in a top loading machine. And when it comes to detergents, the best illustration of the difference between traditional detergents and the high efficiency surfactants can be achieved by simply comparing the amount of each recommended by the manufacturer per load load of laundry. The mere sight of the measuring devices accompanying the 2 detergents should be convincing enough, but pour the recommended amount from the HE detergent into the conventional measuring scoop and the point is made rather dramatically.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III I don’t usually wash anything in the sanitizing setting, I just use it to clean the washing machine. Sometimes I put bleach in when doing that cycle. Once in a blue moon there is an old towel in there if there is one that needs to be washed anyway.

@stanleybmanly That’s the same thing to me. The front loader required a third less water. So, a full load uses a third less. Each load would require a third less. You can see it through the glass, and yes, I know the amount if detergent is less for each load too. That’s why my guess was seemingly accurate.

In my opinion very sweaty clothes do better in a top loader where they can really soak. Many of my friends agree with that. For other items I feel the front loader is better, especially delicates.

stanleybmanly's avatar

No! The front loader requires ⅔ less water!!!!!!! The machine does not use ⅓ LESS, it uses1/3 or 33 percent of the water as required by the top loader.

JLeslie's avatar

LOL, right, that’s what I meant. It uses ⅓ the water of a top loader. Lord, I meant that all along and wrote it incorrectly.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And instead of half a cup (or better) of conventional detergent, 2 tablespoons of HE.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I wonder how that works, using ⅔rd less water. I mean, when I load clothes into my regular washer I have to be careful not to put too much in because if they’re packed too tightly the water can’t get between them to make them scrub each other. If there is too much water and not enough clothes, they just swirl about and don’t scrub.
How can basically the same machine get away with washing just as many clothes with only ⅓ of the water? And exactly how does “front loading” facilitate that?

stanleybmanly's avatar

It’s because the top loader requires the water level to fill virtually the entire drum to cover the load, whereas the front loader let’s gravity do the work of mixing the liquid and the load. The tumbling insures that everything is evenly distributed, and the agitator which beats your clothes to death is eliminated,

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thanks @stanleybmanly. That makes perfect sense.

flo's avatar

By the way we didn’t mention about cold water. Isn’t using cold water just as good as long as you don’t use powder detergent?

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I use cold water for most of my stuff, because hot water fades it. But I use hot for whites and sheets because hot water cleans better. I don’t think it matters what kind of detergent you use.

flo's avatar

I know there is more suds in hot water. but But if we’re talking about efficiency, eergy saving, cold water is it. So, ”....a front-load washing machine is capable of reaching hotter water temperatures to get your clothes cleaner.”? The whole text is interesting.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
jca's avatar

From what a friend told me whose son works for a detergent manufacturer, the more expensive detergents have more enzymes in them. It’s the enzymes that break down the dirt. A company that manufactures detergent will make different levels of quality, the way a car manufacturer has the economy, the mid-price and the luxury (Sentra, Altima, Maxima, for example).

jca (36054points)“Great Answer” (1points)
Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I buy the cheapest stuff per pound on the market. I’m satisfied.

jca's avatar

I buy the “middle of the road” stuff, like Arm and Hammer.

jca (36054points)“Great Answer” (1points)
flo's avatar

How many detergents say “HE” or “For front loading machines”?
How many say, something like “If using in top loading use…per load”, and how many of the regular detergents say “If using in front loading use x per load”?

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
Dutchess_III's avatar

Never noticed, @flo. I never read the box.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Our machine specified HE detergents and prohibits all other detergents.

JLeslie's avatar

A lot of the detergents are HE now. You can use a regular detergent in a front loader, but you have to reduce the amount to about ⅓. It’s better to use a formula specifically made for front loaders though. They have less sudsing agents.

Dutchess_III's avatar

So sexist!

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly ”...machine specified HE detergents and prohibits all other detergents.”
Unreal. Does it say what would happen if you use (and I see most people do) regular detergents? If it prohibits it, it must be that it would harm the machine and or the clothes I guess? If that is the case, (which I simply don’t believe) it means it’s seriously flawed machine. It is a selling job that’s all.

@Dutchess_III You might be interested in checking the next time you’re are at the supermarket.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
stanleybmanly's avatar

@flo LG user’s guide & instructions. MFL31245113 page 16
SELECTING DETERGENT
IMPORTANT: Your washing machine is designed for use with ONLY High-Efficiency (HE) detergents. Using a regular detergent may cause oversudsing and unsatisfactory performance.
The capitals and italics are as they appear in the manual. The warning reappears at least 3 more times in 35 pages of the 8.5×11 inch manual.

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly Oversudsing can be mitigated, like reduce the amount of detergent, or add things that that don’t harm clothes, that reduce suds, there is no need to prohibit it. Edited.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
stanleybmanly's avatar

Make that 4 times. It’s there in very bold print on the front cover. My impression is that these folks take their detergent seriously, and scam or not, I intend to treat the overpriced hunk of metal to the exact tune they call!

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t have a front loader so it’s not something I’d be concerned about.

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly These kind of scam to use your word, would make some not buy the machine.

Re. suds if the laundry is already in progress:
“White distilled vinegar works to reduce suds in a washing machine. If your washer finishes the rinse cycle and you open the door to find suds remaining inside, add ½ cup of vinegar in 1 qt. of water to the washing machine, and set it to “rinse.” The vinegar will rid the washer and laundry of remaining suds and ensure your laundry comes out clean.”

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/info_8569830_can-reduce-suds-washing-machine.html

So, that would be for top loading machines. Putting some in at the beginning in the front loading just to be on the safe side would work too. So, there is a solution for the huge gigantic problem that makes them prohibit regular detergent.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
stanleybmanly's avatar

I’ll remember the tip. But the HE ALL is what the wife likes, and I buy. I just follow orders. I think the manual was probably written by somebody’s wife.

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly now you’re blaming the wife?

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
Dutchess_III's avatar

Um….blaming her for what @flo ?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Thanks Dutchess. And Flo, there are ways to see that as a dig. Even though, it just well may be a compliment. Perhaps I mean that it would take a housewife to recognize that a husband left with the laundry might not bother to READ the instructions. In any event when it comes to the laundry, MY wife knows better than I & I will gladly admit it. Since her conclusion coincides with that of the manufacturer, I’m prepared to state that they both know better than YOU! I’m pretty brave, when someone as feisty as yourself is not within striking distance of me. So I’m poking my tongue at you and singing “you can’t make me buy it”

flo's avatar

@stanleybmanly Look at your earlier posts it sounded like you are an expert in these machines something. But after the holes in the claims were shown, ”...is what the wife likes, and I buy. I just follow orders”?

”....and scam or not, I intend to treat the overpriced hunk of metal…” Your own words, scam and overpriced.

And then the funny part: “you can’t make me buy it”, You are taking my position?
I don’t know if you’re trying to be funny.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)
stanleybmanly's avatar

No. I’m not an expert, but I do understand the mechanics as well as the theory behind both the top and front loaders. What I do not know is about advances in detergents. “The overpriced hunk of metal” was a reflection on the shock at the price of the machine compared to what I’d paid for the top loader I’d purchased 15 years before. I’m happy with the machine, detergent, and results. I will grudgingly admit that I shall remember your tips if ever you are here to force me at gunpoint to use the old stuff. The point I’m trying to make is that the manufacturer for whatever reason goes beyond merely recommending HE detergents, and whenever I come across something emphasized so strongly and frequently in instruction manuals regarding ANY product, I think it prudent to play along.

Dutchess_III's avatar

He was indicating that the manufacturer’s insistence on using a super duper typed of special, and probably expensive, kind of detergent could be a scam. It’s possible that regular, inexpensive detergent might work just as well, but the makers imply that it won’t. Regardless, he’s not taking any chances with the expensive machine. Also, his wife insists on using that detergent. So, there it is.

Dutchess_III's avatar

This just reminds me of reading the instructions on back of a shampoo bottle when I was a teen. Although I had been washing my own hair for 10 years, just out of curiosity I read them and according to those instructions you’re to “Apply shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat.” I instantly saw that THAT was a scam, to try and get you to use twice as much shampoo as you really needed.
Don’t know what the instructions read today. I mean, who in the hell even needs instructions on how to wash their hair?

flo's avatar

Hi-lie-ree-yes, kissing feet position.

flo (13313points)“Great Answer” (0points)

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