Because it was the white Europeans and later the white Americans that felt it their duty to save and convert the heathens of the world. Their mission was to go forth to as many far away places and bring Christianity to the poor “savages.”

Probably for the same reason they speak Spanish. If you want to “get by”, you WILL assume the habits and beliefs of those wielding the whip.

@MrGrimm888 Why not?

Almost all American plantation owners insisted on Sunday Bible readings attached with a “moral” to support the institution of slavery—to teach the “negro” his “rightful place” in this world; namely, life as a slave to the superior white master. Eventually, after a couple of generations, this displaced whatever indigenous beliefs the slaves arrived with.

A few whites broke the law by teaching slaves to read by using the Bible as a primer, a book with which the slaves were familiar. Soon, slaves began to re-interpret those stories and found others that supported anti-slavery and taught others to read using the same primer. Slave preachers arose, teaching the new interpretations, that we are all God’s children and that slavery was a sin When they were freed, they attributed a lot of that freedom to their beliefs in Christ. They were saved. And thus, Christianity took deep roots in the American black community.

You find this legacy runs strong in the speeches of Martin Luther King and many, many other black leaders.

Because that’s how they subjugated the slaves to force them to obey, upon pain of hell fire and eternal damnation.
It’s the same reason most people of European lineage are Christians,because the Romans did the same thing, and it just got passed down through the generations.

Not only what some of the people above said, but you have to keep in mind that there were generations of slaves. It wasn’t exactly allowed for slaves to teach their children their own religions (but some did, which is why in places like Louisiana, there are mixes of Christianity and Voodon within the black community still). It’s hard to keep your own traditions alive when they’re literally beaten out of you, though. And, has been the case for most of human history, most people, in hard times, need something to fall back on in order to find the will to keep going.

(To the OP…You do know that the first Christians were people of color, right?)

You said, ”... it astonishes me that people would adhere to the religion of people who did such terrible things to them.” Well, they were brainwashed. That’s all the religion is. It was a combination of utter fear if they didn’t do what they were told, along with a lot of comfort and hope thrown in that if they just “believe” their plight could get better, and God saw all that happened and would take care of them.

Very few people choose a religion. They simply follow the practices of the culture around them.

You should probably google Nation of Islam.

Thank you all for your contributions. I was already aware of “why” though, as far as how history played out.

My thing is. If you’re a person of color, and you know “why” you were raised Christian (as mentioned above, brainwashed, enslaved ), why would you still choose to be Christian?

I assume most are raised Christian. It’s one of the earliest things they learn. But as they are educated and grow up learning “how” their beliefs were brainwashed, and beaten into their ancestors, why don’t their opinions of their faith change?

I was raised Baptist (Sunday school and all.) But as I grew and learned more about science a distance began to grow between me and my religion. Through introspective thought and careful analysis I eventually abandoned my religion. Once I was old enough, or maybe smart enough, it stopped making sense to me.

I feel like if I were black, and I realized all the truth of what you all noted above, I would be offended by Christianity, and it’s role in the oppression of my people.

Having that knowledge, why would a person of color continue being a Christian?

@MrGrimm888 I think it comes down to programming. You and I both chose, to examine our religious backgrounds and consciously determined we felt religion was fraudulent. Like many things if one never wakes up and questions their beliefs, they just keep believing what they were programmed to believe. This goes for many things, not just religion.

We are all brainwashed. Our European ancestors were not only brainwashed but outright killed if they refused to convert. We know this. We choose to ignore it because our religion is so central to our lives and the brainwashing and manipulation is lost in the mists.
Simple brainwashing.

And exactly what @Coloma said. Most people refuse to even examine their religion because they’ve been told that to question anything is a mortal sin.

There’s a more obvious reason why (a lot of) people of color are Christians…

…Christianity works for them.

I personally prefer Buddhism or Eastern practices. It makes sense to me. It may very well be true that I’ve exchanged one form of brainwashing for another. It works for me, though, so there’s no reason for me to fix what doesn’t appear to be broken.

@SABOTEUR I too like the eastern philosophies, but that’s just it, philosophies not deities.
Take the magical, omnipotent “God” being out of the equation the Golden Rule is just as solvent as the Noble Eightfold Path.

I see your point, @Coloma, but if I’ve learned nothing else from my study of various practices, it’s clear to me I’m not in a position to judge what another should be practicing. Especially when it becomes apparent that most religions, theologies, philosophies are merely different paths to the same destination. And that ultimately it doesn’t matter whether you walk a particular path or not.

The key is you find what works for you.

@SABOTEUR Agreed, I’m just saying that The 10 Commandments are very similar to the Noble Path, and that most philosophies/religions say the same things, minus the deity part.
We all get along best and lead our best lives if we follow some base guidelines for human deceny minus some punishing God entity that is all about controlling via fear and shame.

Lip service. Trying to fit in.

Based off the criteria given in the OP I would say many people should stop following their government, and no African American should support Uncle Sam in the least, and that may go to the Japanese as well. Why want to befriend and do commerce with someone who fire bombed you and nuked you on top of it?

Yup, there are a lot of people so stupid as to be friendly to those who done evil to them. ~~

@RedDeerGuy1 It’s been my experience that the religious are not just giving lip service. They believe the stuff deeply.

Well, that’s what I find so appealing about Eastern practices; little emphasis is placed on belief. Emphasis is directed toward getting you to get your self (ego, judgement, opinion, whatever) out of the way to allow you to experience Truth for yourself (as opposed to an interpretation picked up or formulated somewhere else).

To forget the god(s) of your people, to worship the god(s) of a people who ravaged you, who beat you down, who held you in bondage – why, surely, there can be no greater subjugation, no greater enslavement, than this.

Hypocrisy Central. Good point, but off topic. You were one of the flutherites I was most interested in hearing from. I genuinely wanted a thoughtful answer. Something with some substance.

Most answers are from atheists I think so far. And they have given good, but predictable answers.

@Darth_Algar That is the core of all religions that involve an imaginary, all powerful deity or magic. Enslavement and control.
Even the original “religion of your people” had that at the core. I think voo-doo is a West African religion. You think the witches, and their power, didn’t scare the shit out of their people?

At the base of HC’s comment was no substance. He was being utterly sarcastic and defending his personal religion.

@MrGrimm888 You were one of the flutherites I was most interested in hearing from. I genuinely wanted a thoughtful answer. Something with some substance.
Let’s take worldly logic, you cannot say those who were victimized because of misapplication of the gospel should reject it even generations down, because so many other things have fell into parallel situations. You can take out belief in God and plant many other things in there. For instance, why would any gay man want to be a “Squid” (sailor in the navy) when the navy has a long history of beating up, harassing, and worse to gay men? If one has to use past behavior as a criterion on if to follow something or not, many would logically not be following a lot of things. Why would someone who at the hands of some claiming to do it in the name of the Lord still be Christians? Because they are SMART ENOUGH to know that it was not God who victimized them, but men being led astray by their own evil desires trying to have a form of godliness but denying it of its deity and holiness, that is why.

So essentially HC, you’re saying that you don’t see a correlation with Christianity and the oppression of people of color?

@Dutchess_III

Huh? I’m not sure where that quote came from but it isn’t mine.

You said, “To forget the god(s) of your people, to worship the god(s) of a people who ravaged you, who beat you down, who held you in bondage – why, surely, there can be no greater subjugation, no greater enslavement, than this.”

I said, ”@Darth_Algar That is the core of all religions that involve an imaginary, all powerful deity or magic. Enslavement and control.
Even the original “religion of your people” had that at the core. I think voo-doo is a West African religion. You think the witches, and their power, didn’t scare the shit out of their people?”

@Dutchess_III

Yes, I know what I said. The way you bolded part of your post right after my name there looked like you were quoting me (only I never said the “quote” is question, hence my response to you).

I was just emphasizing my opinion, which was a paraphrase of what you said about “subjugation…enslavement.” Sorry for the confusion.

No worries.

And to the point: perhaps. But even at that it is, in my view, better for one to follow a religion that originates with their people, rather than one forced upon them by others. To whatever ends it may be used for a faith is, in so many ways, a reflection of the heart, mind and spirit of the people who birthed it.

I guess I also could have asked, ‘Why are people of color republican? ’

Well…that is not the nature of religion, Darth. Every religion there is originated with someone, who converted someone else, by whatever means. Then the religion changes course. Abraham came up with a new religion that had one god, and he ended up the father of The Jews. > some turned into Christianity. And the Romans converted, then put new > rules around the new Christian religion to use it to their own advantage.
Then Christian factions split > ^ > all over into modern day.

Ew! Looking at this wiki article about Abraham it says, ”Abraham defended his practice of calling her his sister, since indeed she was the daughter of his father, but not of his mother.[6]” Ew!

@MrGrimm888 Actually, the Republicans had control of the north in the 1800’s. Lincoln was a republican. It was the Dems from the south. who were fighting the end of slavery… :/. My how the poles flip, huh.

Ok.

Dutchess, I meant why would people of color be ‘currently ’ republican?

For whatever reason the Republican party seems bent on returning the nation to some weird ‘Back to the Future’ 1950’s America.

I’m not trying to turn this thread in that direction, so I retreat/take back my ‘republican ’ position. (For this thread)

@MrGrimm888 So essentially HC, you’re saying that you don’t see a correlation with Christianity and the oppression of people of color?
I am saying I see no greater correlation than people of color being victimized by those not calling themselves Christian.

I like that HC. Well said sir. Violence or intolerance are inexcusable.

I guess I like the “it works for me ” type of opinions. I suppose I can understand not being able to be more elaborate.

I was just thinking that I would resent a religion so closely tied to so many negative things. I actually DO change my opinion on something based on it’s views or beliefs if I feel they affect humanity in a negative way. I don’t eat at Chic Fil a, don’t buy BP gas, I don’t vote, I don’t support the US. I’m not anti US, but I don’t support it. Because of the effects on humanity.

I realize I could boycott much more and for better reasons, but I don’t have the time.

I had a great debate once with a vegetarian about what was worse for the world, meat farms or agricultural farms.
She said “I’ll destroy the world the way I feel comfortable with. You destroy it your way.” Lol. I love that statement.

Seems to me there might be a very long list of things to reject should we decide to “distance ourselves from our oppressors”.

This is not a new idea; versions of this question has been asked before (see Nation of Islam). In many respects African-Americans are people without a culture as much of what we were prior to being brought to this land has been lost or forgotten. Very few of us know who our ancestors are or what our true name is. It’s probably true as well that many of us would reject “our culture” as we’ve accepted this culture as ours. Yet even after so many years we’re still reminded this is not our culture and we aren’t particularly welcome here.

Christianity, I think, would probably fall way down on the list of things to change before “people of color” find any peace. I doubt I’ll see this change in my lifetime, though…

…we did have a Black president, so there’s always hope.

This made me think of the Republican question, actually. Old joke goes it’s like chickens being pro- Col. Sanders.

But religion isn’t quite politics. Like Espritus mentioned, it’s the interpretation of the faith that made all the difference. The white slave owners made no mention, I’m sure of Moses setting his people free from slavery under the Pharoah, but you can be sure that theme was popular and well focused on by the slaves themselves and the emancipation crowd. There are plenty of feel good stories of the underdog winning out against the odds ‘with faith and God’s help’. Pretty appealing to a group feeling disenfranchised.

Excellent point, @cazzie.

Yes. Interpretation is the problem. People are the problem. But religion is the reason for the problem. Religion is a crutch, a shield, and a convenience to a troubled soul (normal person.)

I suppose I really wanted a black or brown person to say ,something like ‘we are what we are in spite of the religion that oppressed us(in a good way) .’ Not because of it. Or something like HC said. Or what the ‘works for me ’ crowd has mentioned.

IMO, there is no ‘wrong ’ answer to the question.

@MrGrimm888 Interesting. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the scripture of St. Mick:

“You can’t always get what you want.”

I’m going to join in here and say that black Americans at one point had a movement towards leaving Christianity and converting to the Muslim religion. The schtick was telling black people Christianity was the religion of the white slave owners.

I think if you believe in multiple gods it’s probably easier to accept another God. The Mayans, Incas, and Aztecs all had multiple Gods.

Christianity is their religion now. If your parents and grandparents were Catholic, and you were raised with Catholicism, then you are Catholic. It’s the religion of the family. In Latin America Catholicism was so prevalent it’s almost part of being the nationality. Wrapped up in identity as a given. Everyone around you practically was Catholic. Seeking a different religion wasn’t readily available, but that is changing now.

Christianity actively pursue converting people and keeping you in the religion. Look at Judaism. Why are there so few Jews? One reason is they kill us. A bigger reason is we don’t go around trying to convert people, we never have.

I’ve been thinking about this question. Under your reason, no woman in the US should be Christian either. For centuries, up until modern times, men used religion to beat women down, to scare them, to make them subservient to themselves, to control them sexually, to control them financially, even as an excuse to torture and kill them.. They still try to, to this day, but their grip is slipping due to science and reason.

One thing that is interesting about the Salem Witch Trials is that it was pure superstition that drove them, not a desire for any kind of dominance, which is usually behind such things. Just pure religious fear and superstition. I think in their hearts they all wished it wasn’t happening, that they didn’t have to “do” this.

@Dutchess_III the Salem Witch trials were a side issue for the church created by this publication which was as popular as ‘Twilight’ and with even less substance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

@cazzie..I had no idea. That just freezes my blood. It’s like people killing other people over modern day conspiracy theories. Thanks for showing me that.

@Dutchess_III Science has also posited that many of the “witches” in Salem were, most likely, suffering from Ergot poisoning, a fungus very common to Rye and other grains, that causes major hallucinations. Rye flour was a major staple of the early colonists diet and the Ergot fungus ran rampant, especially during wet and humid weather.
Take Puritanical religious lunacy and couple that with something nobody understood, mind altering substances, and you have the perfect storm of paranoia and persecution.

Wow. And we thought gluten was bad!

Sorry Dutchess, I felt like the female question didn’t cover as broad of a spectrum. So I went with ‘people ’ of color. Implying men and women. The question was directed at modern /present day people of color in the Americas. Who are old enough to understand the history of their religion and it’s relationship with their people.

Why would women be Christian? Would also be a question I would have interest in. But women are subjugated in most religions, so I wouldn’t just target Christianity.

I have trouble getting how anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of science would choose to retain their own beliefs after a certain age, but I suppose that’s why it’s called ‘faith.’

I was really interested in trying to find something specific, and external from the ‘does God exist, or not’ debate. Other than a lack of scientific merit, what other variables play into a person’s decision to keep their own beliefs. I was trying to go back in my mind to when I was letting go of my religion, and imagine that I was a person of color. I wondered if race would have been relevant to my decision. At the time, I didn’t feel oppressed by the religion (although I now know we all are.)

Many people of color I know or observe are not just Catholics or Christians , they are very religious. I just never understood why they chose to love a god that was much more stick than carrot to them.

I was just using your question as a springboard to point out that there have been many people subjugated and controlled by religion, yet we rarely give it up for that reason.

I didn’t give up religion based on the treatment of women in the religion. That was nowhere near the forefront of my mind when I made the decision. I decided based on how ridiculous it really was, and how it didn’t answer one single question, without bringing up another whole slew of questions that only had “God works in mysterious ways,” as the answer.

Rarebear is an Atheist Jew. His grandfather, and those before him, were devout Jews….until the holocaust. After that his Grandfather said, “If there is a God who would let something like that happen, I don’t want to have anything to do with him.”

Yeah. The logistical hangups are what did it for me too Dutchess. Thank you for explaining your journey as it relates to the question.

@MrGrimm888 I believe you just answered your own question, being…

….to them, Christianity is not “more stick than carrot”.

The problem, then, is not so much the answer, but your unwillingness to accept the answer. Any explanation that doesn’t fit your idea of what you think the answer should be…and you’ve told us what it should be several times…will be unacceptable.

There will always be people who have perspectives that simply don’t make sense to you. The thing is, it doesn’t have to make sense to you. Unless you just want to express your disapproval of their perspective, it’s probably best to simply acknowledge it is what it is.

@SABOTEUR. I thought I already expressed my acknowledgement, by saying I liked the ‘it works for me’ answer. And what Hypocrisy Central opined.

You did at that. I apologize. Ironically, my inappropriate response relates to your question and why I’m personally not a Christian.

In my 20s I began to question why God would create the inequities that appeared around me (I was raised a Baptist). Why some folks were rich…others poor. Some black, some white, some healthy, some not. My seeking provided answers to my question, but not quite the answers I expected.Chief among them was the possibility my questions were based on a false premise.

That God created the world.

What if…I said if…God (god, if you prefer) created none of what we experience. What if God created us and allowed us the freedom to create our hearts desire?

And we forgot the power we had?

Well I imagine we’d create something pretty darn close to the lunacy we see today.

All of Us. Irresponsibly creating.

Something to think about, if nothing else.

So I read your question and can’t quite decide what it means. Is it sincere? Is it Christian bashing? Is it minority bashing? Is it venting? I can’t quite figure it out as a lot of questions online are merely opportunities for the OP to publicly proclaim,

“I’m right. You’re wrong”.

We rarely approach a question with “I don’t know” mind (my Eastern philosophy emerging) and allow answers to reveal themselves. We approach questions with our own bias and prejudice and learn little more than what we thought we knew.

And in the process, we plant seeds of discontent that’s never fully resolved.

So I guess what bothered me…and again I apologize for my own contribution…was the nagging question I’ve carried with me as a result of my own personal quest, was

What useful purpose did this question serve?

(By Eastern philosophy exposing itself again)

Before speaking, one should ask oneself whether what’s being said meets the qualifications of being

True.
Kind.
Necessary.

The correct answer to your question, I believe (emphasis on “believe”), is that there’s value in ALL experiences provided we experience with an open Mind and an open heart.

We’re always Creating.

We’re just not always mindful of that which we create.

(Again, my apologies.)

It’s all gravy @SABOTEUR.

I promise I didn’t ask this question to bash religion or minorites (white people are the minorites in the world, people of color are in America. )Although I’d be lying if I didn’t think the question was potentially emotionally charged.

Like I said, I had a sort of ‘desired ’ answer, but I was open to just thought process elaboration.
I’m not a person of color, or Christian (anymore. ) So obviously I don’t know what it’s like. I was hoping the somewhat inflammatory nature of the question would illicit a kind of knee jerk reaction from believers . That way it would be clean and unfiltered from their heart. The atheists took time to consider their answers. Well thought out and sensible though they were, they were predictable.
I think what I garnered so far, is that it’s hard to articulate a person’s decision to keep their faith, or adopt a new one. So the ‘it works for me ’ answer takes center stage. It seems people choose their faith sometimes on what fits best. That makes sense to me.

I was toying with choosing another faith when I let go of mine. But ended up agnostic for some years. Eventually I came to grips with the reality of me being an atheist. Which I don’t care much for.

The truth is I really wish I were religious. I envy the faith others have. The comfort of an afterlife and a protector. The sense of belonging they must have at church. I just can’t walk that path anymore because to me it’s a lie,or deception.

I apologize for the nature of the question. I almost didn’t post it because it was very controversial, and potentially offensive. But I figured flutherites had tough skin, and if the mods didn’t like it they could take it down or punish me, or ostracize me if necessary.

To me a good debate has controversial subject matter.Not always, but it helps to shake people up a bit. Get them out of their comfort zone.

The question was asked with all due respect.

Peace n love.

People still love parents who abused them. There is a condition called Stockholm Syndrome that basically describes prisoners who care about their captures who have mistreated them, but show them kidneys now and then. Religion has a similar hold maybe? But, it even goes further in that the person is usually born into. It’s what they know. Plus, often, they are surrounded by people with the same beliefs. This might be partly by people in large urban setting, which usually have more religious diversity, tend to be less religious, or have fewer people who are religious.

As far as the Jews, there is a whole group that decided religiosity wasn’t for them. We have Reform Judaism for that. Although, if I remember correctly @rarebear (since you brought him up) his grandfather or father (I don’t remember) was orthodox/observant and an atheist. A large percentage of Jews are secular/atheist.

Regarding the witches in Salem, I do think some people at the head of the whole thing we’re not just scared, but also got a little thrill that somehow they were better than the “other.” I think that motivates some of the religious to make laws in modern day. Then there is the whole fear factor too. They want God to bless America, so we need everyone to be following His word.

“It works for me” is probably a summary of feelings often difficult to articulate. It may mean an intuitive sense of this bring the correct path or “this is what I was taught”, so this is what I do. I think what’s important to understand is there are different levels of understanding. Unless you see religion, philosophy, science etc. as different perspectives describing the same phenomena you’ll likely see conflict.

The same way you’d explain a particular concept differently to an adult than you might a pre-schooler, you communicate “spiritual” concepts to someone in their particular “language”, or within the perspective that person is willing to accept. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve participated in discussions where opposing views where expressed, only to realize the participants were saying the same thing from different perspectives.

So, to me, being agnostic or atheist is no different from being Christian or Buddhist. We’re all living within the same Circle…we’re just viewing the contents of that circle from different perspectives.

Indeed @SABOTEUR. We all are looking at the same thing. But through different prisms.

@JLeslie Rarebear’s grandfather (and his ancestors) was an Orthodox Jew, until the holocaust, when he cast the idea of a magic god aside. I imagine from there he raised RB’s dad as an atheist, or, having already indoctrinated him in Jewish philosophy and beliefs, opened up discussions about why he changed his mind about the existence of God.
They still hold on to the traditions (he had a bat mitzvah for his daughter a few years ago,) they hold on to the trappings because they like it, it’s comfortable, but they dismissed the magic and supernatural parts of it.

@Dutchess_III Are you sure his grandfather didn’t identify as Orthodox and atheist? I guess I remember it wrong. There is no real conflict in every day life with being atheist and Jewish. First, there are a ton of us like that, so we don’t have to hide it. Usually the orthodox are theists, but once in that community it would be difficult to leave, because that’s the person whole social structure, so even those who are atheist might stay observant and in the community. Second, Judaism is a very earthly religion, we don’t think about life after death like the other abrahamic religions. Third, we basically created and taught the scientific method. Rabbis have been questioning, disagreeing, and arguing since the beginning of Judaism, and we encourage it.

I don’t know if his grandfather was Orthodox before he changed his mind about the existence of God. I don’t know if he was still Orthodox after that. I guess I don’t think it really matters.

I know there is no real conflict in everyday life with being an atheist and Jewish. That was one of the first questions I ever asked him, back on Wis.dm, probably 2007. He has explained it thoroughly thorough the years..

Stockholm syndrome?

I thought it(Stockholm syndrome ) was a good point.

It was along the lines of assimilation that I mentioned in the details segment.

Yes but it’s not quite the same. The Stockholm syndrome refers to individuals in specific situations. For the slaves it was a whole different ball game. They may have fought the Christianization at first (under pain of death) but subsequent generations just came to accept Christianity as a fact. Many of them really didn’t understand how the religion was being perverted…..just as it has always been perverted to serve those who pervert it. Going back to women…if women tried to question what they were being told, they were silenced by other Christians, including other women.

Quiet Dutchess. (JK)

Seriously though, I never understood why women are often oppressed by religion.

In my family, women are the most important. They hold the family together, and guide it through most storms. The men are important too, but more for teaching and defense. The women make it turn.

Women (IMO) are at least equal to men, in regards to society.

I know that was off topic, but wanted to clarify my stance.

It comes about, @MrGrimm888, when insecure men realize that woman are just as smart as they are, and they can’t have that. They resort to bullying, using their superior strength and size to keep a woman down, to mock their ideas.
Consider that females aren’t allowed to be priests in the Catholic religion, only lowly nuns. Unless that’s changed.

@Dutchess_III The current pope is considering female deacons. It’s a valuable first step. I believe that in my life time will be the first female pope.

Indeed Dutchess. Insecure men are also quite guilty of oppression and subjugation. Perhaps there is a correlation between my question and your comments after all.

It’s probably insecure men ,using religion as an excuse to assert their ‘dominance’ most of the time (against women, and other men.) Insecurity may well be a motivation for some who are religious.

I’m not saying that all religious men are insecure Fluther…

Perhaps though, for some men, one of the attractive things about their religion, is the empowerment of men, and subjugationof women. I would think that would be the case with men in the Midwest who have many wives and control the family. Mormons?

No, not all religious men are insecure. I can tell you that my first husband, who was not particularly religious, tried, more than once, to use Bible quotes to tell me how I should behave. You can imagine how that went over.

We got into a disagreement over what our wedding vows should be. I refused to say “obey,” unless he said, “obey,” too. That didn’t go over so well. There were other things.

@MrGrimm888 ” I would think that would be the case with men in the Midwest who have many wives and control the family. Mormons?”

Eh, not many Mormons around the Midwest. They were all ran out of the midwestern states. You’ll mostly find them on the other side of the Rockies.

When I brought up Stockholm syndrome I was using it as an example, or just short of an analogy, about anyone who stays with a religion even if it is under the threat of eternal damnation and some fear and abuse here in real like. I wasn’t thinking about one group.

@JLeslie. I understood the analogy.

I think Seek could provide us with some exceptional, personal insight the the Stockhold syndrome involving religion.

I mean, you have abusive parents who wrap their abuse up in the righteousness of God…where does that leave a poor child?

As I read through this thread, it occurs to me that I have been focused on the victims of Christianity. Hearing Dutchess mention @Seek being affected and slave owners using the religion as a means of oppression really gets me thinking about the perpetrators of the travesties….

I suppose I could have asked ‘why do people of color trust white people, any white people?’
By the logic of my question…And it makes me think of how a person must feel /have felt using religion to manipulate and harm others. Are these people who ‘abuse’ Christianity actually believers? Could they actually use careful selection and omission of their own sacred book with a clear conscious? I wonder WTF goes on in the head of a person victimizing an entire race with a book they hold so dear? .Are they maybe atheists too, just using Christianity?

It may seem off topic, but to me, a person’s motivation for oppressing people of color, and their mindset in the process of doing so would be important to me if I were a Christian, considering my faith and it’s origins in regards to my race.
For instance, if I thought the people that held my people down were non believers simply taking advantage of the religion to oppress me, I might not hold the religion responsible.

Maybe that’s what Hypocrisy Central was talking about….

@MrGrimm888 For instance, if I thought the people that held my people down were non believers simply taking advantage of the religion to oppress me, I might not hold the religion responsible.
That is the same methodology most things other than the church is dealt by, for example if a school coach or teacher is caught and convicted of having sex with a student or students, people do not ceremoniously blame the education system and pull their children out and send them to private school or homeschool them, they look at it as one bad teacher or coach in the school system. When it comes to the church, they want to blame the church or God on the misuse, abuse, and misapplication of the Bible.

The thing is, they believe they are righteous @MrGrimm888. They actually don’t recognize that they’re being hypocritical. They. Do. Not. See. It.

And some black people do hate all white people. And some white people hate all black people. Some people are just assholes.

To get back on track, I think that the first generation slaves, who were brought here from Africa, probably did rebel against it. But that rebellion quickly diluted through the generations until the brains washing was complete. It didn’t take long (generation wise) for them to disassociate the religion with the initial control, and to accept Christianity as the light, the truth and the way.
Even Christians today don’t recognize that once the budding young religion hit Rome, the Romans turned it into a means to control, and subjugate (and terrorize) their ancestors. I sure never thought of that growing up.

I didn’t think about it when I left my faith. Like I said, it was logistics. But I think I’m learning a few things in this thread. I’m greatful to all that have contributed.

Oh yeah. Yes HC . Good points.

Right. I didn’t think about religion holding women down when I left, or religion being used to control my European ancestors. So…that really kind of answers the question, doesn’t it.

The function of religion in the control and subjugation of people is quite obvious. Just consider Christianity, a discipline constructed around delayed gratification. For those in power, what possible doctrine is more convenient than the notion that your suffering and slaving in this world will be rewarded in the next.

I think that I’ve gathered most don’t consider their religion’s role in relation to their races. Or blame the people, not the religion they stood behind. The message they seek is answered in their chosen faith, regardless of the history of the religion.

Again, I think the ‘it works for me ’ answer seems most appropriate. That’s something I can understand. It’s a little misleading, but when people elaborate on their positions, it makes sense to me.

Question answered….

If it works, who am I to tell them they’re wrong (unless they ask!)

Isn’t white a color too? lol

A lot of people who use religion to control others are controlled by it themselves.

As far as black people not trusting white people, quite a bit of that still goes on. A friend of mine used to volunteer at a prison near Memphis and a lot of the black inmates still talked about the Tuskegee experiment! He was there counseling about AIDS so the conversation was already medical oriented, it wasn’t completely out of the blue.

In view of the history of the country, it is asking a VERY great deal of a black person to trust white folks.

^^Hell, white people don’t trust white people. Especially, not government or people who are trying to make money off of you.

White people are actually more pink than white.

^ Actually more Cadmium orange, with white and a touch of Sienna brown.

@Hypocrisy_Central Ok then. Trump is more orange than white.

There are some who don’t trust women. Some who don’t trust the “Redskin.” Some who don’t trust the Greeks. Some who don’t trust the “Gooks,” the “Japs,” the Irish. There are some who don’t trust anybody. However, I think that most people withhold judgement about who to trust and who not to trust until they learn the character of the individuals.

I’m of the ‘don’t trust anyone’ belief system. I endorse it.

I have to say that I trust most people, until they prove me wrong. It doesn’t take long.

They did so for the exact same reasons that pagan “white people” originally adopted Christianity: to be on the winners’ side.

Christianity is a “brown” religion, least we forget… :-)

Good point as always @olivier5. I felt asking why anyone would be Christian wasn’t specific enough. But I was reading through one of my nephew’s school books a while back ,and came across a VERY sugarcoated summary of slavery. It left me mad, a intellectually stirred.

Get this, the thesis statement in his book was ‘Life as a slave wasn’t always easy.’ WTF! ?!?It kind of went on like that. I didnt expect it to be graphic and upsetting, but they took a lot of the negative aspects and kind of sidestepped them. If they aren’t going to teach a subject in its entirety, they shouldn’t teach it until they think he’s old enough to be taught properly.

Weeks later, they had a school play where the kids sang a song called (I shit you not) “Cotton needs a pickin.” Lol. The audience and myself were shocked.

So what did my nephew learn about slavery in the US? It wasn’t always easy, and they sang lots of songs. Uugh….

^^ What’s next? Will history books introduce the Holocaust to kids with phrases like: “It wasn’t always super cool to be interned in Dachau-Birkenau”?

Coming back to your question, it does make sense when asked specifically about American blacks, or more generally of the victims of the slave trade: why did they adopt the religion of their tormentors? I supposed they didn’t have much choice in the matter… They were pretty much forced into it. The question is less relevant for Latin America, at least treated as a whole: many people in Latin America are just as European in their ancestry as you may be, and not just from Spain or Portugal. Many Germans, Frenchs and Italians emigrated to Argentina for instance… Those guys didn’t change their religion.

And yes, most Europeans were forced into Christianity too, historically, either by strong socio-economic incentives or by the tip of the sword. See for instance the Saxon Wars.

^^Aplause . GA.
BTW. I’m Caucasian, but I think I’m a mix of like all the Europeans and some American Indian (Cherokee. )

My grandfather on my dad’s side was adopted. With record keeping being what it was at the time,it’s been a mess since. But I have dark brown hair on my head (let’s face it,some grey ) a big red beard, and blonde or brown body hair. Hazel to green eyes.

If I were a dog I’d be a ‘mutt.‘lol.

Well, we’re are mongrels and we are all “colored”. Only the hue varies. There’s no such thing as “race”, there are only perceptions of race, mental construct of race. Eg the concept of “white nigger” shows that race is not an objective fact but a way for societies to classify people.

@olivier5 That’s a great philosophy, and true, but it didn’t hold the slaves in such good stead, which is the basis of this question. People DO react to different shades of our hue, right or wrong.

Whether it’s merely a social/mental construct or not race is and thing and, yes, it does matter.

How many times did you hear mention that Pres. Bush was..white!?

Of course, it matters to racists and to their victims, but it’s not an objective, biological things, and that it can be deconstructed by society.

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfKgffCZ7U

^^ Excellent