My own view is that you should back whatever decision she makes regarding the matter.

“My question is, if she is pregnant should I stop her or talk her out of having the abortion?”
Well, according to my own moral ideas, no, you have no right to stop her and you should not try to manipulate or control her, but you do have a right to let her know how you feel about it, and I think it is good to openly talk about all of it, as long as you’re not trying to compel or manipulate her. Pregnancy has a massive effect on a woman (up to and including possibly killing her and orphaning her existing child), which is the main reason I believe it should be entirely the woman’s choice. Another huge reason to have it be her authentic choice, is that if it isn’t, then the life of everyone involved will be negatively impacted by creating a child that wasn’t authentically wanted and being manipulated into having it anyway.

“Will I be a coward for not doing so and helping her with the abortion?”
No, you won’t be a coward if you support her choice. What kind of thinking has you thinking that?

“Also, am I wrong for trying to talk her out of the abortion?”
Yes. Say what you have to say without being manipulative, to the best of your ability. (I also think it is your best chance of having the outcome you want, that she realizes she actually does want it and chooses that. Manipulation generally fails or backfires one way or another in the end.)

“Is this entirely my fault?”
The pregnancy is partly, not entirely, your fault, but if you talk her into doing something she doesn’t want, that would be entirely your fault, and the impact of it would never go away.

“Am I unfair to want her to have a child that she does not want?”
Yes!

The minute you had sex without protection you accepted that she has control of what happens next. You can (and should, of course) discuss this with her, but any attempts at coercion on your part, towards one decision or another, would cross the line. Big time.
Support any decision she makes, whole-heartedly, without reservation.
And being against abortion is not enough reason to want to bring a child into the world if you are not having to carry that baby, alter your entire life, etc etc etc. standing by, wringing your hands does not entitle you to a say, here.
You’re not even really involved with this woman, you really have behaved irresponsibly. Maybe she has too, but that is not your call. At all.

When was her period due? It’s not uncommon for a period to be a few days late. Maybe she is bullshitting, only time will tell. As far as your feelings, as you know, feelings are not always logical so what you want is not necessarily wrong or right. Maybe in the back of your mind you want a child and feel that the time is right. However, in my opinion it’s a big risk to say you want to co-parent a child and possibly live with another person who you barely know. She might be a lunatic for all you know.

It is her choice, not yours.

And don’t be thinking you are being a hero ”...if she decides to have the baby I will stick with her no matter what” You took on that responsibility when you chose not to use a condom.

The decision to terminate or gestate the fetus is her call. As others have said, you certainly can tell her how you feel but this is a disaster waiting to happen. This woman is the one that has to carry the fetus, give birth, arrange her work schedule for maternity leave, find childcare, and basically will be doing the lions share of parenting regardless as you are NOT a couple, don’t live together and don’t have a relationship.
All things considered I think termination is the best choice for you both, this is not some playing house fantasy, and raising a child is hard under the best of circumstances let alone a shot gun attempt to create a stable family life for a kid conceived in a moment of reckless abandonment of responsibility.

Her body, her choice.

You don’t have a say in the matter.

This is just one of many reasons not to screw someone you don’t know very well, especially without protection.

^ Word

Totally agree with all the above answers.

Realistically, although you say you have these principles and the desire to raise a child “together” (whatever that might mean in this context) should she find herself pregnant, what’s your commitment here? How much time would you plan to take off work to raise the infant? Are you going to commit to living wherever she decides to live for the next few years (at least) to make this happen? That is, to be on call when emergencies arise, when she has to travel out of town or is otherwise unable to care for the child while it’s a minor, or to stay home when the child is sick and can’t go to school or day care? Do you have the next few years’ worth of school holidays mapped out already on your “time off” calendar for work?

Or if she gives in to your entreaty and bears the child, then hands it to you and says, “There you go. All yours,” what’s your play after that?

Or do you think that you should man up to “do the right thing” and marry her, do you think this is the basis of a lasting relationship?

How much thought have you really put into this aside from “against abortion; it’s wrong”?

You can try to convince her of nearly anything; apparently you have already – literally – charmed the pants off of her. What’s your strategy, past your policy?

@CWOTUS I am very committed to doing whatever it takes to raise my child. I am even prepared to leave my house and live wherever she wants to make that happen. Ill do anything. I don’t want to be a dead beat father. I wont be. Even if she gives me sole custody I am prepared to do that.

I am honestly astonished that you had sex with this woman without using protection. You’ve been on Fluther for years and have seen us all discuss this situation over and over.

I don’t believe that you, or anyone else is so overcome with passion that they can’t help tthemselves. I call bullshit on that!

You are an adult. So is the woman. You both should have known better. I would love to hear the reasoning for your foolish decision.

That being said. If she is pregnant, it’s none of your business regarding HER decision. She’s the one who might be pregnant, not you. It makes absolutely no difference whether you agree with someone having an abortion or not. It’s her decision, alone.

I’m sure you don’t care what any of us have to say regarding this situation. Situations like this, the before and after, have been discussed so many times and for so many years, on Fluther, but you still CHOSE to make a foolish decision.

Grow up. Whatever this woman decides to do, it would be a kindness to her if you are supportive of her decision, whichever decision she makes. If she decides to keep the child, your whole world is going to change drastically for the next 18 years. Do everyone a favor and take some parenting classes.

If she decides to have an abortion, don’t be an asshole about it. You should know by now that it is her decision to make, not yours. Being a dick about it will only serve to make a bad situation worse. In the meantime, please take some sex education and birth control classes. Even though you should know how all that stuff works by now, you clearly don’t.

@Kardamom Judge me all you want. You are on Fluther for years more than me…so I guess you are so perfect.

@Eggie Has nothing to do with being perfect and everything to do with being responsible. Just how many kids are you willing to have with women you hardly know?

@Eggie -

I am very committed to doing whatever it takes to raise my child. I am even prepared to leave my house and live wherever she wants to make that happen. Ill do anything. I don’t want to be a dead beat father. I wont be. Even if she gives me sole custody I am prepared to do that.

Good on you man. Really. I don’t know many people that can actually do that.

Make sure you know what that really means before you decide to strengthen your opinion on this. Find some kids and spend a whole day with them, make sure that’s what you want your life to be like. Not out of obligation, but because you can actually see that in your life.

It has to be her decision first, and yours second though. Hopefully one you’re both happy with after working through it.

@Kardamom – totally, completely, uncalled for.

@Eggie. I am not perfect, but I’m not wreckless, and as an adult, I know where babies come from. Why don’t you?

@funkdaddy Why is the truth uncalled for?

@Eggie you’ve been here long enough to know that this place is mainly populated by pro abortion people. But you aren’t. So why are you asking advice from them? If you want to avoid having your girlfriend having an abortion, go to people who will help you accomplish the job (The anti abortion people)! There are a lot of choices out there.

@snowberry Yes, there are many choices but, the point is, it is the womans choice and nobody has any right to intervene on her decision, whatever that may be. There is no “job” to accomplish and it is nobodies business to try to accomplish anything.

So, you don’t believe in abortion. Good on you. Have you told her that you will take the baby leaving her with no obligations after birth—that you will provide for it, protect it, raise it, do your damndest to give it all the tools it needs to have a good life, and that she mustn’t feel obligated to have anything to do with you or the baby in the future? Will you sign legal documents to that effect? Will you put your life where your mouth is?

That may be the only way you will save this baby, if she’ll take the deal. If you’re truly interested in saving your son’s or daughter’s life, this may be your only option. How about it?

Good luck, pal. And I suggest you use protection next time.

Coloma, I love you. You know it. My point stands.

If anything is going to motivate her toward @Eggie‘s goal, @Espiritus_Corvus has it. Good job, EC!

@Eggie I don’t doubt your intention; you’ve made that clear enough. And good for you to have determined that you “will do whatever it takes” to raise the child. But …

Any other parent here can tell you, as I will, that it is hard as hell to raise a child even in a stable, two-parent household where one or both parents hold full-time jobs and need to work at long-term careers in some manner. That’s difficult.

Your current flame can tell you, if you’ll talk to her about it, that it’s even harder – much more difficult – to raise a child as a single mom. But at least the world recognizes that, at least to some extent, and it is at least within general norms for mothers to do that. Still harder than hell, but a lot of women do it, so it is demonstrably do-able.

It’s going to be far more difficult for you to do, in ways that you can’t even imagine yet.

And that’s assuming that the child is at least generally healthy, of normal intelligence and non-disabled.

I doubt, no matter how strong your intent is now, that you will have the capability to ‘actually’ follow up and perform on your stated intent as a single father, should that be the young woman’s decision. On the other hand, you have another month or so to try to talk her into some kind of committed relationship, where you agree to form some kind of family – and not forget the four-year-old who already exists.

If you want to convince her to have the baby, and can manage to do that, it would seem to me that the best case – for the child – would be for both of you to give up parental rights and to put it up for adoption by a loving, stable couple who are already committed to each other and have prepared and want to adopt a baby that they cannot otherwise have.

Part of being the best father you can be would be to consider “the best interests of the child”, and for you to be a demonstrably somewhat irresponsible single father would not be the best.

Good luck to all of you.

I want to add that I despise manipulation. But if you can inspire her that your option is the best plan, go for it!

^^LOL. @CWOTUS There was nothing in the OP’s details that indicated he ever thought of taking on the responsibility of a single father. That is the one option that is conspicuous in it’s absence.

@Eggie, My impression of you, after many years on Fluther, is that you are a good guy, you ask questions about having quality interactions with people, you are a young man with a conscience.
Be guided by that very conscience, the conscience that applies to the care with which you treat other humans. We all have different perspectives about different situations and understand that you need to respect how she feels.
Whether or not she respects how you feel is out of your hands.

Good luck with working all this out, it is a tough place to be. <3

@Kardamom: “reckless” not “wreckless”

I know that, @Espiritus_Corvus, it came out in the later discussion after I had raised it the first time. EDIT: Or thought I had; apparently he mentioned it himself.

@funkdaddy There was no “attack”, that is your perception, and yes, there are universal truths in @Kardamom ‘s post. Fuck someone without protection = good chance of an unwanted pregnancy. truth not attack
Sex is always a choice truth not attack protected or otherwise, unless forced upon someone without their consent and…last but not least, to carry a child to term or abort is a womans choice and her choice only. truth not attack

Finally, anyone over the age of 12 knows about birth control. again, truth not attack. Maybe us older, wiser and more mature women here have little patience for the follies of youth, when those follies might result in a really shitty circumstance for an innocent child. I agree with @Espiritus_Corvus if @Eggie is serious about keeping this, potential child then is he prepared to do as suggested and assume full, total and complete parental custody and responsibility? If so, more power to him. Oh and BTW , this also includes the full support of @Eggie ‘s extended family as they too will be involved in a childs life most likely. It does, indeed, take a village to raise a child not just one parent and if there is only going to be one parent all the more important the child has extended family members to be loved and cared for by as well.

It’s her call. Her body and ultimately she’s the one who’s going to have to bear responsibility for the child. Yeah, you can say that you’ll be there for it and all that, but she barely knows you and has no reason to take that on faith. Many a deadbeat have started out with “you can count on me”.

You lost any control over the situation when you had unprotected sex.
It’s her ball game. You’re just an observer. Maybe a payer.

I have another point of view on this. You don’t really know this person that well. I know you think you do, but you can live with someone for years and not really know them. Think of the Green River killer. He was married with grown children and was big in his church and community, but killed a lot of people.
Anyway, it occurs to me that your girlfriend could be telling you she is pregnant to just get the money for an abortion from you. Just be careful as to how this all pans out and good luck.

@chyna Haha…Yep, gotta toss out the possibility of sinister motives too and…if she is pregnant maybe she will have twins, triplets,quadruplets, quintuplets or sextuplets.
Are you ready for that possibility @Eggie?

Cramps are not a sign of pregnancy.
Mis carriage or periods cause cramping. Pregnancy does not.

It wouldn’t have made any difference if she never told you about her possible pregnancy and if secretly aborted her fetus.

In the end, it’s all about money. Raising a child is a very expensive responsibility, and judging from her situation it makes sense for her to avoid making her life more difficult with unwanted burden. Your promise and belief won’t do her a damn thing. She needs money and financial security in the future, give her that and she will most likely want to raise that child with you. The first thing you could do now is to take her to a doctor to confirm about this pregnancy and to ease her mind, then you could proceed with appropriate measures.

It must be nice to have the luxury of “not believing in abortion” when pregnancy is something that will never affect your body and we have a society that puts the brunt of raising children on women.

It doesn’t matter one iota what you think about abortion. You barely know this woman, you chose to have unprotected sex. That does not obligate her to carry or raise your child. There is something called bodily autonomy and by consenting to sex with you (albeit unwise and unprotected sex) she is not consenting to be a broodmare for your DNA.

Your only options is to accept whatever choice she makes for her body and her future, even if you don’t like it. If you don’t want children at all, get a vasectomy or practice safe sex and chalk this up to a hard lesson learned. If you try to stop her, you’re a bad dude.

Should this unfold where she does not abort get a paternity test too…

If you did not know her well and she was ok with unprotected sex then odds are you were not the only one. Get tested for STDs while you are at it.

@SQUEEKY2 “The best thing in my opinion is pledge this to this woman, and write a legal contract that he will financially support his kid, no matter what”

Eh, that’s basically no different from a child support order, which pretty much any court would award her anyway. Child support often borders on being a bad joke given how effectively it is enforced. She’d have no reason to take that to heart.

@Darth_Algar In the states anyway child support is highly enforced with wage garnishments, 10% interest fees applied for failed payment, contempt of court charges for violating a court order, garnishments of income tax returns, revocation of drivers licenses on & on.
There are lots of penalties for being a deadbeat dad. Sure, a lot of guys quit their jobs and run and hide but it never goes away and sooner or later they will have to face up to their obligations. They may avoid paying for years even but…it always comes home to roost in the end.

The courts, especially the CA. courts take child maintenance very seriously. Sadly it can be a real nightmare for a parent to keep having to dog and chase some deadbeat dad or mom around for years, that much is true.

Uh-huh. That’s the idea at least. The reality of it is often far different. I have a friend who’s daughter in now in high school. She has yet to see one single dime in child support, despite the fact that she’s had the order since the girl was in diapers.

@Darth_Algar I have a friend whose son was 30 and his mom finally got her back child support of about 40k. They took it from his inheritance. Hope your friend is not giving up, he will owe that forever, legally and literally.

@Coloma

Well that will be great when the child is 30 and no longer has need of it, but that’s not doing her a damn bit of good now, nor has it so far in her life. If the child support isn’t collect until after the child is well into adulthood then it is, as I said, a bad joke.

As my old pappy used to say, if you want to dip your wick, use an umbrella. Crude but sage advice.

I don’t think of “supporting a child” as being equal to a child support order. In the state I live in, child support would be 17% of a father’s income. Thankfully it’s not something I have to deal with, but I don’t think of 17% of someone’s income as “supporting a child.” Let’s say hypothetically someone made $50,000 per year. 17% of that wouldn’t pay child care, let alone food, clothes, living expenses, sports, etc. When my daughter was a toddler, I spent over $1,000 per month on babysitters and then preschool. Now it’s over $400 per month for 4 days a week. Still that’s not food, clothes, etc.

@jca Very good point. Astounding what it costs to pay for childcare these days.

When was this cramp? A few days after you had sex? Or, more than ten days?

This chick, and I say chick, because you admit to barely knowing her, has a kid! If anyone knows whether she is ready for another one it’s her. She knows the effort it takes to care for a child.

You could offer to take the baby if she is pregnant and has the baby. Release her from having to care from it altogether, but every message out there has already warned her for almost her entire girl life not to trust that promise. Men suck all the time when it comes to children out of wedlock. Believing you, and then you don’t follow through, would mean she has to live with knowing better, but being duped like so many girls. I’m not saying you would flake out, I’m saying you are up against that. Where is the father of her 4 year old? If he hasn’t been responsible the child you don’t really want her to risk being fooled twice do you?

Not to mention, I personally can’t imagine giving up a baby, but that’s me, people do it every day. Maybe she will go for the idea? My guess is you don’t want to be a single father though. Most men don’t, but there are exceptions.

Forget the lectures above about having unprotected sex when you are anti-abortion, what about finding out before you have sex if the girl you are screwing would want to abort if she became preggers? Even if you use protection once in a while an oopsy happens. Even then there is no guarantee the woman doesn’t change her mind once pregnant.

Anyway, if her cramps were two days after sex and she was mid cycle it could be attachment cramps. If the cramps are ten days or more after sex then she likely is getting her period. No guarantee on either though.

@Eggie. If you are still following, I hope you let us know if she turned out to be pregnant or not.

Hi guys thanks for all the answers and advice! She took a pregnancy test on Tuesday and it turns out that she is negative. She has not gotten her period yet though so she will take another one this Friday. Will let you guys know about the outcome.

Thanks for letting us know. Good luck with your new relationship.

Is she late? Or, just being paranoid?

Maybe she counted her days wrong.

Or she was simply giving you a shit test

She’s likely not pregnant.

Wear a condom from now on.

Hi guys. She took another pregnancy test and it turns out that she is not pregnant. She is willing to see a doctor though because her period still has not come.

I’m glad it worked out. Sometimes it takes a real life moment like this to clarify how you feel about things like family, relationships, children, and family planning. Or it did for me, anyway.

Is it fair to ask if you feel more prepared now?

I hope the missed period is no big deal for her, and hope you both are doing well.