If you care about that sort of thing.

@johnpowell I homeschool. Ironically I read online that the state had great colleges. Compared to NY’s numbers for High School graduates, we aren’t much better than AR.

I wasn’t concerned about you and your children’s education. I was more concerned about the people you would be living around.

@johnpowell I was just thinking the same thing.

Hang around one of the college towns like one of these top Colleges in Arkansas.

I have visited Arkansas, briefly.
It is beautiful, much of it.
There are some amazing parks.
Did you know there is a diamond mine there, and it is finders keepers? It is a surface mine. You just dig til your heart’s content.
The people I encountered seemed sweet.
I had a day at the zoo in Little Rock. It was decades ago, but I had a good time back then.
I really wish I could have spent longer exploring than I did.

Sorry I don’t have more to share, but what I have seen I liked.
Oh, but do prepare (if you visit or move there) to slow down. People in service jobs dash pretty well, but the rest of living is a more cozy pace than you find in NY.

Even looking at the college list, a number of them are Christian in orientation. I think you would be likely to find religion and possibly right wing politics much more pervasive in Arkansas than in the Northeast. It’s up to you how much that would matter. But I would spend a lot of time down there before buying anything.

I know the people there pronounce their e’s and i’s with an “ai” sound. Like “aiggs” for “eggs”, “aink” for “ink”.

You might want to take a look at this TV series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozark_(TV_series) ... I guess they go to Missouri not Arkansas, but Arkansas is further south and probably more er… what’s the word? One word is redneck; for example, Arkansas rates #1 on this list of the most redneck states in the USA .

Alabama is great for property values, but it’s also going to be er, culturally, economically, and intellectually rather different from New York…

You’d probably do well to home school your children there, but most of the other people won’t have.

@janbb That was one of the things I wondered about. I’m betting they wouldn’t take kindly to my Buddhist beliefs. I do agree I would need to take a few visits before making a decision.

@Zaku I can imagine what you mean. I used to live in a town (only 45 minutes from my current city) that was filled with farmers and country bumpkins. There was a big difference in how people walked and talked. Things there were slower paced in general. Anyone from this city would consider them people rednecks. I didn’t mind it much but it was certainly different. I remember looking around at everyone while eating at one of the local restaurants and thinking to myself, “Did everyone here reproduce with their cousins?” Terrible, I know.

Compared to the neighboring states, the paving sucks. Arkansas doesn’t seem to take much care of their roads.

Parts of it are lovely.

Politically it is bright red.

Whereas Arkansas is much more conservative than New York, none of the blanket generalizations are true, Nor the insults about the way people there speak.

The claim about ‘Christian’ colleges being backward is a little derogatory, too. Hendrix college in Conway I would consider to be quite liberal (United Methodlst) as is the denomination that sponsors it. State Colleges are ubiquitous across the nation and non-religious.

Arkansas obviously support and boast the Clintons. Culturally the Ozarks are the same “base culture” as the Scotch-Irish—whereas it was a Confederate state 150 years ago, many fought on the North in the civil war.

Little Rock and Fort Smith and Eureka Springs are far more “diverse” in thought, as would be any college town. I’m sure you’d find Buddhists there.

I haven’t found the roads in bad condition as mentioned above, just little by way of Interstate highways. Still mostly old highways. Live near a city such as Little Rock, North Little Rock, Fort Smith—or near a College town. Haven’t been to Eureka Springs in a long time but its definitely in the artsy category—an uphill-downhill town with lots of Victorian houses and buildings precariously set on hills and ledges, no streets crossing at right angles, and the entire downtown on the National Register of Historic Places.

@Yellowdog Thank you for your insight. That was probably the most helpful information so far. It’s good to hear that the stereotypes aren’t always true. It makes it feel a lot less intimidating to consider moving there.

Thanks—of course it IS far more conservative than New York.

I haven’t been there but in my research for my move I remember seeing a city in Arkansas on a list of best places to live. It ranked #5 this year.

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/slideshows/25-best-places-to-live-in-the-us?slide=22

My friends from Arkansas are wonderful. They are fairly religious, but not uber ridiculous. They do lean politically conservative, but they are open to listening to all sides, and do not follow the right wing leaders blindly.

Bill Clinton was raised in Arkansas, he was elected governor there, so obviously there are people in Arkansas who are liberal on some issues.

People are generally friendly there, and lots of open spaces to enjoy the outdoors.

Regarding AR I would say the same as TN, just be sure you feel comfortable with your children being raised there or going to school there. Your children will be surrounded by Evangelical Christians. In TN, as an adult living there, I had zero problem with this in the practical sense. It was fine that I was Jewish, my husband and I were even asked to tell the story of chanukah at a pre-school, and he told the kids the Christmas tradition in Mexico. I never had a problem. I don’t know what it’s like for a child who is a minority religion though as they get older when kids can say stupid things, or when some other kids try to invite friends to church functions to woo them.

It’s hot in the summer, unless you go up towards the mountains. It’s landlocked obviously. You’re right about the tornadoes. For three months your TV shows will be interrupted constantly to report on the storms rolling through. It’s annoying.

If you go to visit, go to the Clinton library/museum, it’s fantastic. Even if you didn’t like him as a president it’s worth while. Also, take a day in Hot Springs, and bring your swimsuit so you can go in the hot spring pools, and the museum there about the city is great.

TN or NC will be closer to your family. Just a thought.

You have to go there to know. See how it feels. Can you spend a couple of weeks in the summer traveling through the states you are considering?

If my husband received a great job offer from a company in AR I would be fine moving there for a while. I’m sure eventually I’d want to come back to FL like always.

One thing I recommend keeping in mind, people who have never lived in the South cannot tell you about living in the South in my opinion. They are working on their assumptions and what they have heard, and that is not good enough. Just like Southerners who make asssumption about what living in the North is like.

I think a trip is in order to go see what it’s like first-hand.

@Yellowdog No one said Christian colleges were backward except you. All I said was that looking at the list of colleges, there were a number that seemed affiliated with religions and that that might or might not be something she would want to consider. I looked into Hendrix for my son. Please don’t put words in my mouth; I have enough of my own.

@JLeslie I’ll have to take a visit a before making any judgments but it seems like one topic that has come up several times is religion. In NY I don’t give it a second thought. Aside from the occasional person to knock on your door and leave a pamphlet, you don’t have religion shoved down your throat. There is such diversity here. It seems different in the south. I don’t mind what other’s practice, I just mind if it’s being forced on me. I wouldn’t want my neighbors asking why I’m not joining them for church every Sunday. Of course, you can find these types of people anywhere but if they’re more prevalent in the south I’m not sure how much that would influence our decision to make that our home. I want to feel mostly comfortable where we live and not completely out of place. Ideally I would like to plan a road trip and make a stop through all the states we are considering.

^^There will be people who will ask you within 5 minutes of meeting you what church do you go to, but that’s still rare. Mostly, religion was no issue for me, but it is more religious in general in the Bible Belt. My guess is that percentage wise more people attend church, and religion is more in their every day, whether they be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. There is kind of an assumption you are religious and a theist.

When someone asked me what church do I go to, I just replied I don’t go to church, or I’m
Not very religious. Nothing more was usually necessary. Sometimes they went in to mention their church and were inviting so to speak. It was never swelled on though. Like I said, it happened rarely, but did happen, and up north I can say that has never happened to me, nor in Florida.

You also come across more people who use religious words more often. Like “pray for me,” or, “have a blessed day.” But, it’s not constant and everywhere, it’s just so odd to me that I notice it.

For sure religion is more worn on their sleeve than in NY. I assume you are in a Catholic area, and the Catholics are more private with their religion in general than the Baptists, Methodists, etc.

The schools out by me taught the Bible in literature class to get around the separation of church and state issue, which bothers me.

Honestly, what worried me more in the South was how divided it still felt black people and white people. Not that it was blatant racism, that wasn’t it, not how I define racism, but black and white people did not socialize together much. It was very obvious. They did work together, and it was not weird when out in public or anything, and everyone was welcome so to speak at a social gathering, but it’s just when it came down to it, mostly blacks and whites weren’t social together. I worried if I had young children that I’d prefer they be in a place that doesn’t have distinct differences between the races, and I like more diversity in general (all parts of the world).

I’ll tell you what though, people talk about the South not being welcoming to outsiders, and that was not my experience at all. We made great friends in TN, my husband misses it a lot. They were more social than anywhere I’ve lived, always getting together for potluck dinners, and just truly very neighborly and helpful.

I don’t think anyone in the deep south or in Arkansas would mind if you told them you are Jewish. They’d respect that and not bother you about religion. But, like me, they might hope you take their position on Israel.

In Eureka Springs/Berryville I HAVE encountered anti-Semitism and “British Israelitism” (people who believe certain European bloodlines are the ten lost tribes of Israel— especially the tribe of Dan) British Israelitism is not anti-Semitic but ascribes two of the twelve tribes to modern Judaism. The Great Passion Play is a must-see for Christian groups—but regrettably its founders (and the New Holy Land) are anti-Jewish. I don’t think many anti-Semitic overtones are evident today.

To say you’re Buddhist might take them aback but I think they’d respect that also.

I know there are Buddhists in Eureka Springs
To say you’re an atheist seems more anti-theist —better to say you’re not religious.

@Yellowdog I did tell people I was Jewish, it depended on the situation whether it came up. All my friends knew of course. They all assumed I believed in God though, I’m pretty sure of that. I never talked about being an atheist, I just said I wasn’t religious. I have a friend in TN who is an atheist, but I don’t even think he knows I’m atheist, I’m not sure. I only know, because a mutual friend of ours mentioned it to me. I didn’t say I was also, I just went on to another topic.

My feeling in Memphis was “they” have negative assumptions about atheists, and I wasn’t in the mood to try to be very pioneering about setting them straight in a proactive manner. If something negative was said about atheists I did defend us, but I didn’t put myself out there as an atheist.

I remember my dad talking to a woman at my gym about her missionary trip to China just after my dad had just been in China too. She said to my dad, “you know they are atheists there,” and my dad said he was dumbfounded, and he felt practically offended. He couldn’t believe she said it in such a negative tone, and had assumed anything about my dad for that matter. Obviously, she had assumed my dad believes in God.

Have you searched Arkansas churches, mosques, and temples? It might show you how the numbers figure, and maybe some news articles will pop up if any religions have been attacked, verbally or otherwise.

I would recommend to anyone considering a move to an unfamiliar location that they visit first.
I feel you are more likely to face curiosity that any sort of contempt. If you are open to explaining what differences you live with, then I bet people will be happy with the learning experience.

I agree curiosity, but also, people just assume things anyway, assume if you are European-Caucasian you are Christian. Plus, religion most often doesn’t really come up, or easy to just not mention your own beliefs, and it’s a moot issue. The question is the kids. I don’t know how hard it is to be a minority religion if you’re a kid. I think @Italianprincess does Christmas and Easter, and so it won’t be like her kids aren’t doing the big things the other kids do, and so it probably will never even be brought up in any way.

@JLeslie Yes, you’re right. We still celebrate all of the holidays and I don’t really advertise my beliefs unless asked. Aside from someone seeing Buddha resting up on a shelf in my house, or seeing an occasional social media post about meditation (and people of all different beliefs/religions can meditate anyway), I doubt they would ever know. So I wouldn’t think it should come up often or be an issue.

@ItalianPrincess1217 It’s not like they will think of your Buddha as some sort of symbol against Christianity. Not most people anyway. Being accepting and interested in other religions won’t be a big deal at all in my opinion. The Christians who I know do a little of that anyway. Not necessarily as demonstrating theyworship or believe in the other religion, but simply being open and accepting, and from their travels also they have these items.

I’m going to send the Q to Pied_Pfeffer, she lived in the Memphis area also, possibly she lived other places in the south too.

It’s gorgeous- the woods, rivers, lakes, caves, etc…, the people are a mix like anywhere else, but you will run into the ones without teeth that live on the govt dole, then a few miles away there’ll be McMansions…it’s a very diverse population. Honestly the water sports/ lake life, cost of living and privacy are probably the best attributes.

@KNOWITALL, isn’t there a Buffalo River, where canoeing is awesome?

@Patty_Melt Established in 1972, Buffalo National River flows freely for 135 miles and is one of the few remaining undammed rivers in the lower 48 states. Once you arrive, prepare to journey from running rapids to quiet pools while surrounded by massive bluffs as you cruise through the Ozark Mountains down to the White River.

Note: We have so many beautiful rivers and springs in the Ozarks, it’s truly magnificent. Hot Springs (horse races), Eureka Springs, Mammoth Spring, the diamond mine, Little Rock Central High (This historic school was where desegregation began. The army escorted nine black teenagers to their first day of school here in 1957, without incident. The event was noted as being an important moment in the Civil Rights Movement.)

There are different pockets of society, too, you’ll find a place that suits your tastes. Unlike the stereotype, the whole state is not like the movie Deliverance, not at all….lol

Wow! Nice travel sell! Now I need some trip $$!

What’s the deal with religion anyway?

I am an evangelical Christian. There is Judaism in my background. Christianity is very important to me, and most of my friends are Christian and a few Jews.

I NEVER ask people about their religion, and I don’t know anyone who does.

@Yellowdog It’s not always about the asking, sometimes it’s just the feeling of being surrounded. Lol. You know the triple cross 150 ft high visible from I40, and the Statue of Liberty holding the cross rather than a torch (I mean really! That is a message to me that those Christians don’t want religious diversity in the country). My recovery nurse after my colonoscopy telling me to have a blessed day, and something else she said that I don’t remember now was so soaked in religious verbiage that my husband and I looked at each other afterwards. Not that I think that girl would hurt a fly, I don’t. I also think she would take care of me well, no matter what. If politics is talked about it’s very evident that some of the ideas are from religious roots, like being against gay marriage. It’s just different than what I grew up with. It took me a bit to feel comfortable, or I should say, to get used to it.

@Yellowdog I’m not religious and I’ve moved several times in several states in my life and religion is always brought up. The common question is asking what church I attend. It’s a question that puts me on the spot and makes me feel uncomfortable. You are considered an outcast in some places if you don’t attend church. This is why some are uncomfortable moving to where there are many religious people. Many religious people (not all) are also homophobic. Some people don’t want to be surrounded by homophobic people.

Is “have a blessed day” really offensive or even awkward?

“Have a Good Day” is a wish, for your benefit, not a command. It really doesn’t mean anything but a wish for you to have a good day.

“Have a blessed day” is essentially the same thing, coming from someone who believes in blessings from God. I guess it COULD seem like a directive—but its actually contingent on whom the wish come from.

Aethelwine: (pretty username btw)—I wouldn’t equate Christians with being homophobes just because they are Christians although I concur that many DO see homosexuals as someone they are against or against THEM.

When I was twelve many people thought I was gay. But people the evangelical churches were more concerned about whether I was “saved” than they were concerned that I was gay.

@Yellowdog It was uncomfortable for me, because it was so unusual to me, and it’s not something I would say to someone, so I can’t really reciprocate easily.

If someone tells me to have a good day, I’d reply, “you too,” or, “thank you.” But, since I wouldn’t say blessed day, saying “you too” felt disengenuous, and feels weird, because I don’t believe in God, so I don’t think about being blessed. I got used to it over time. It’s not offensive, I understand people who say it, say it because they are accustomed to saying it (habit) and/or their belief in God is very strong, and they are wishing me something very nice and positive in their mind. I don’t take offense. I smile, and say thank you usually now.

By the way, my friends who were against gay marriage, I didn’t feel like they were homophobic or hateful. I did feel they were a little brainwashed on the topic, and misguided. Of course there are some hateful people out there, but I think most people aren’t.

Didn’t get to finish my thought—my GF was hanging over me.

When I was twelve, a lot of people thought I was gay. This was the year 1977/1978 — I can assure you, the popular culture was anti-gay. Even Saturday Night Live had many anti-gay skits and t was popular to bully, torment, and even assault gay kids or kids accused of being gay. The church—yes, even evangelicals, were not concerned I was gay. They were concerned I think about whether I was saved but not that I was gay. I actually found love and acceptance in the church but not in school. The Methodist church (a mainline protestant denomination concerned more with Social Justice than evangelical concerns) ws not even concerned about religious beliefs.

I was in Camp Fire (formerly Camp Fire Girls) from the time I was 10 in 1975 until 1978—so I was there when transgender scouts weren’t cool. I get exasperated today when people thnk they have the moral high ground over me n transgender or LGBT issues. I was there when it meant getting beaten half dead by mainstream culture and entertainment

I think mostly “Where do you go to Church?” is a conversation starter, like “What’s your major?”
I tell people straight up, I don’t attend Church anymore, that my membership in another state was my last Church.
I used to have a couple of Mormon boys come around. They were working a large, sparsely populated rural area.
I told them they were welcome to come by any time to rest, and have a glass of lemonade, so long as the leave their speech outside with the bikes.
They did just that.
Now, kids are a different story.
The elementary school my daughter attended she informed her classmates that she believes in no gods.
They made her life miserable, telling her often that she’s going to hell.
So, there’s the two sides of my coin.

@Yellowdog Thank goodness you had some people around you who were accepting. To be saved in their minds would you need to not be gay though? From what I understand you aren’t gay, people are just assuming you are.

@Patty_Melt I think it’s a conversation starter too. But, it also has a subtext maybe of recruiting another into their church. I don’t know if anyone is really thinking that way when they ask it. It’s such a part of the culture, and most people love their church, and so they want other people to come, because they want other people to find the joy in it that they do.

@Yellowdog Many people believe that the southern areas are more religiously inclined than the coasts, which seems to be true. I think they’re just saying moving from north to south, there could be a bit of culture shock since most southern towns have more churches than anything else, and that’s how many of their social lives are led, via the church, then the school.

In our town, anyone new (especially) is invited to church. “If you don’t already have a church family, please feel free to come Sunday at 10am!” – that kind of thing is said all the time. Of course the response is generally just ‘Okay, thanks so much” and you move on.

I’m not gay but I think I have more feminine traits than masculine, and this was particularly true in pre-adolescence and early adolescence. I probably would have been considered transgender. Like I said, I joined Campfire because girls’ organizations were more harmonious and accepting than boys’ organizations.

There was only one other boy in Campfire (until that year it was Campfire Girls)—the other boy’s name was Brock and there was nothing feminine about him. The Boy Scouts at the time thought I was gay and I was harassed so I quit, even though I had already achieved the status of being their bugle boy. (bugle player). I don’t think the rumors were malicious like they were in school. Like I said, at the time, the popular culture and even Hollywood was making fun of gays.

The Rod Stewart song ‘Georgie Boy” was the only piece of pop culture that was sympathetic to the plight and injustice of a homosexual,

Knowitall: Your response to being invited to church is good. If I invite anyone to church, especially a new person in town, its to help them feel included. The people are trying to be helpful.

@Yellowdog Exactly. And if I may say so, whether you are gay or not, trans or not, christian or not, whatever you are is PERFECT because God doesn’t make mistakes. :)

@Yellowdog I too believe they want to be helpful and welcoming. That is their main intention.

@KNOWITALL I think that’s probably true about being invited to church as a polite gesture. I have no problem with things like that. As @JLeslie said, sometimes it’s just that uncomfortable feeling of being surrounded. I know that’s just the risk we run moving south though and I’m sure we won’t be pushed out of town based on our beliefs. I have a good friend who is Christian and is very involved in her church. I actually used to go to the same church with her when I was a kid. I was always really uncomfortable there, feeling pressured by the church to “be saved”. It felt strange praying for all my problems to be resolved in prayer group in front of strangers. For years she kept finding ways to invite me back to church. Eventually she discovered I didn’t have the same beliefs as her and it no longer comes up in conversation. We respect each other’s beliefs but we don’t discuss them either. It didn’t hurt our friendship and we still chat daily. I’m sure it would be similar circumstances wherever I move.

@ItalianPrincess1217 Sure, for adults it’s not as big a deal as for children, because of the social aspects and peer pressure. And tbh, you may be surrounded by people who love Trump, love guns, don’t appreciate the LGBTQ community, etc…but if you’re prepared in advance to deal with that or can afford to buy a more isolated or private home/ acreage, it shouldn’t matter one bit. Because as much as people may believe certain things, the southern manners shouldn’t allow them to make you feel uncomfortable, maybe ostracized or not included, but not blatantly rude haha!

@KNOWITALL Trump supporters, gun lovers…Maybe we belong in the South after all! :) But in all seriousness, the plan is to get a secluded property and be away from people anyway. We want the country life, no neighbors in sight. So aside from encounters while shopping and public events, I’m not too concerned about being treated like an outsider based off of what I’m hearing so far. It sounds beautiful with plenty of things to do outdoors and that’s really important. I can’t wait to take a visit and see for myself.

Eureka Springs is gorgeous, I’d definately make that a priority if you can. My LGBTQ friends and honeymooners, everyone loves Eureka.

And if you love guns, haha!

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In my experience the “what church do you go to?” question is usually followed by an invite to their church then disbelief, then indignation and hostility when the invite is politely declined.

It is not a question that is generally asked in the Northeast. It bothers me because it makes the assumption that church attendance is the default accepted practice. It doesn’t acknowledge the many people who are atheists or who may practice a religion that does not involve a church. While I realize that the intent is probably friendly, i wouldn’t like to be asked that as a standard conversational gambit.

My mother helped moved our family so many times. The second question she hated was “what church do you belong to?” The first was “what does your husband do?” She wanted people/potential new friends to ask about her and the things she enjoyed.

Arkansas teacher urges students to throw rocks at 4-year-old to punish him, police say

^^Wow. I’m sure we could find crazy stuff like that from other states too though.

I want to say that if you are prepared for the question “what church do you go to?” It won’t be such a big deal, and more importantly, the 10 years I lived in the South I was maybe asked it 15–20 times. That’s 1–2 times a year. It’s not every day or anything. I know more than one person who when they moved went church hunting, and so that type of person might not mind the question at all. A lot of Protestants seem willing to change denomination to find the church they feel comfortable in. That’s my perception anyway, maybe that is true less often than I think.

Did I mention above a lot of parents still very much believe in corporal punishment down there? Most southern states it’s still legal at schools too, but most schools that do have corporal punishment have the parent sign a waiver that it’s ok to hit their kid. You can choose not to sign, and they can’t hit your child. In TN, even though it’s legal to hit the kids in school, they have done away with the practice in the Memphis area. AR I don’t know, I know when I was there MS was still doing it. Anyway, my point is more about the culture not the schools. Lots of pressure on kids to be obedient, and to not question authority. Don’t get me wrong, I think young children overall do need to do as told, and to respect adults, but not to the point that they can’t ask a reasonable question, or refuse to do something they believe is wrong or uncomfortable, and I don’t like kids being hit.

@Aethelwine If it was sort of obvious that your family moved a lot, because your dad was being transferred a lot for his job, that’s probably why they asked about his job. IBM, military, back then those were two of the workplaces people would always guess. Or, maybe they were just assuming the moves were for your dad’s work, but it actually wasn’t.

@Zaku There are stories like that in any state.

@JLeslie I’m surprised to hear you were asked 15–20 times in 10 years. That’s more than I expected. Probably because I can’t ever remember being asked in NY.

@Aethelwine I’ve always thought that was an odd question. I am more of a mind my own business kind of person. I never thought it was appropriate to ask what someone did for work. I offer the information up during conversation if it’s relevant but I never ask anyone outright.

@ItalianPrincess1217 I’m out and about meeting people constantly though. I was the social chairperson for the porsche club in TN, I go to Zumba several times a week, I used to walk with neighbors a few times a week, I helped coordinate some charity events, so I interacted with a lot of people. I think probably I meet more people than the average person, but maybe not, I might be wrong about that.

The more I think about it, it was probably a mix of people asking where I went to church, and/or also inviting me to their church that totals up to the number. I can think of two friends who knew me, knew I was Jewish, and still invited me to their church or a church event. I actually went to one. I just like my friend who invited me so much, and it was interesting to check out the whole thing.