We still don’t know what Manafort will say and how damaging it will be. So too early to predict.

But Trump is like a cat with 9 (or 18. or 27) lives. He has this uncanny way of surviving no matter how criminal he is. So even if Manafort flips, Trump will play dirty and will survive.

I haven’t heard the term “no collusion” recently.

One theory has it that in exchange for avoiding a drawn out trial and all the associated negative publicity, Manafort expects a presidential pardon. I would not rule out the possibility.

Manafort just didn’t want another round of court hearings. It could be that he thinks this will now give trump an opening to pardon him.

Or…he has cut a deal and will now divulge info which at the worst ( for trump ) is there was a collusion of sorts indeed.

Just a guess.

@mazingerz88 – I think he’s going for the pardon. I don’t see Manafort telling anything substantial. He hasn’t gotten to be a 69-year old POS without keeping a lot of secrets.

There’s NO way to know what a crook will do as they have NO scruples!!! The one thing I can say is that Trump reminds me of the Mob Bosses back in my younger days. The Mob NEVER left us, they just became MORE legit!!! Well, it appears that they’ve run out of legit & are showing their true colors. A Mob Boss will protect his loyal flunkies at ALL cost & Manafort feels that he has been loyal enough to receive a pardon!!!

^^^ Oops, forgot to finish my thought. Any good Mob Boss is the LAST one to go to jail & IF/WHEN he does, he pardons himself!!! Regardless, I see a pardon in our future!!!

My personal opinion (as opposed to my general opinion I suppose) is that this is a plea reduction tactic. Get charged for two crimes while admitting guilt to all seven. Ten years instead of thirty five plus and get the judge to run concurrently with previous conviction. Don’t give any pertinent information to Meuller and make it easier for a Trump pardon.

It won’t be the end because even DC Democrats don’t want to use that rare chance to usurp the people’s votes/ will.

When Trump boasts that Manafort won’t flip he sure sounds like a criminal.

My hunch is Trump will die before he leaves the white house, now there’s an intriguing thought.

@KNOWITALL not disagreeing with you except on a technicality. The peoples will was not Trump, he was the systems will. The electoral colleges will if you prefer.
@ucme but also doubtful unless it is from a stroke or aneurysm caused by unrequited anger from his will being thwarted.

So here is a theological / legal question, to build on @ucme ‘s question.

Suppose that 200 million people all prayed at the same time for Trump’s early demise.

And posit for the moment that prayer works, and Trump kicks the bucket.

are the 200 million people who prayed all accessories to a murder? after all, for the purposes of this question, they aided and abetted.

Trump and Rudy Giuliani ? pardon coming for both

@elbanditoroso The faithful tell us that it is God who makes the final decision.

@elbanditoroso I gave no question, only an opinion.

@rojo Technically, we could have changed that over the last two centuries, but did not, that’s on us. So due to the system left in place by all involved, he won fair and square. That needs to be changed.

Interesting read: http://time.com/4597833/electoral-college-donald-trump-challenge/

Additionally, Pelosi has stated multiple times it’s not a good idea.

Which brings me back to Pelosi. She has been crystal clear for the last several months that she believes talking about impeaching Trump is a major mistake for her party. “I do not think that impeachment is a policy agenda,” she told CNN’s Chris Cuomo back in May.

”...Pelosi remained adamant that impeachment was not the right choice for the party. She called it “not a priority,” adding: “Impeachment has to spring from something else.”.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/politics/impeachment-trump-poll-pelosi/index.html

Again, not saying he didn’t, just that you cannot say it was the peoples will when the majority wanted someone else.

At the very least the votes should be proportional for each and every state and not some that way and all or none for others.

And, Pelosi would be correct in her assessment. I mean, look who you are left with if he goes. Better to win back the congress and leave an inept oaf in office but with controls and brakes to neutralize his worst inclinations

If you look closely you will find the majority of those talking impeachment are Republican. They are using it to energize their base that, unfortunately, seems to respond to fear and dread more than reason and optimism.

@rojo Then I think (?) we agree. I do think we need to change it, but to me, the people’s will is law in a democracy, and if enough people wanted it changed, it would have been changed. That’s just my pov.

It seems odd to me that the Democrats aren’t pushing for that, seeing as Bush and Trump both lost the popular vote but legally won the electoral’s, which is really all that counts in the end.

Yes, I think Pelosi is right, too. Pence is a nightmare.

Interesting read here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/07/presidents-winning-without-popular-vote/93441516/

Unfortunately, @KNOWITALL it is my belief that the will of the people is continuously thwarted by those in power and who wish to remain in power. I am not talking about the politicians necessarily but the system that put them there and the moneyed elite that actually run the system. So, it really doesn’t matter if the majority of the people wanted change, it is what the minority ruling class wants that is done. Cynical? Perhaps. Paranoid? Maybe. Conspiracy theory? Wouldn’t rule it out but just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean someone is not out to get you.

@rojo Wow, we just keep agreeing.

Let me tell you something, I was raised debating politics in my family, red and blue and everything in between. I THOUGHT I knew how the system worked.

When I ran for office in a town of 3,000, I learned I had no idea. There are tried and true formula’s for winning, tricks and string-pulling on all levels of govt. In the end, it’s always the ones at the top who get their way and get the money. And they almost all know each other and stay long-term regardless of who’s voted in, leaves, etc…

So you’re right and it’s not cynical, it’s the truth.

No. Don’t get your hopes up. He has nothing to do all day but think about ways to serve and protect himself at the expense of others. He has a gargantuan appetite for that activity and inexhaustible energy for it.

I’ve been wondering lately why we can’t revive the sentence of political exile for the worst offenses against the nation. Exile to a remote island, for instance. How about Puerto Rico?

As part of his plea, Manafort has agreed to cooperate fully with the Mueller investigation! That should pretty much answer the question of whether or not he will roll over on Trump. Now there’s always a chance that Trump is innocent of any wrong doing and there’s nothing for Manafort to snitch about. But I think that Mueller already has the goods on Trump, and laid those goods before Manafort. That would put Manafort in the unenviable position of confirming the goods or risking extra decades in prison for failing to cooperate.

JERUBA FOR PRESIDENT WITH STANLEY AS VP!!!

Saw a CNN panel discussing what could be another facet to this surprise move by Manafart, er, I mean Manafort.

His lawyer stated he did it for his “family’s safety.”

Which could mean that this may not exclusively about his farty-partying with trump but more about his past dealings with powerful and potentially dangerous guys, maybe even Russian ones.

I have NO CLUE what is going to affect trump, or how. There is just no predicting this insanity. Just like people who say “Our vote doesn’t count and the presidential election proves it,” there are others now saying “The checks and balances built into our system aren’t working either.”
I’m just confused and my logic and common sense is taking a beating.

^^^ That’s why it is so freakin IMPORTANT to vote in a few weeks!!! He may be screwing with it; but it might NOT be pregnant yet!!!

I know. You’re preaching to the preacher.

NO matter how many time it has been said, it can’t be said enough!!!

I think a lot will surprise you with how this turns out.

Are you aware that the day before yesterday (Sept 13th I think) Trump declassified everything related to the Russia investigation and the FISA abuse?

The Muller investigation will probably end null and void regarding crimes involving Trump and the campaign. It was built on a faulty premise, searching for a crime. It has never really pointed to Trump or Russia as I think was its intent.

Your next strategy should not be specific crimes, but continue the clamor on how horrible and reprehensible Donald Trump is and does not deserve to be president. That’s all that’s really been done anyway.

Not aware of any “Trump declassification” document please.

Photos or it didn’t happen.

Giuilani and Trump are working on Trump’s pardon for himself !

Are you seriously asking @Yellowdog for his sources? You are so silly @Tropical_Willie! He doesn’t have any because he just makes crap up.

I’m silly and “in my Cups”.

I know he is listening to FAUX Newz and Sarah Elizabeth Huckabee Sanders (truth-sayer NOT) !

But he won’t even cite them as his sources! Going to get my cups now.

Martin-eye !

Here is the first thing I found, from The Daily Caller.
But seriously, do your OWN research why not.

From The Daily Caller on Sept 15:

The House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes said that Democrats and the media are likely to be “frightened” by the information contained in Trump-Russia documents that Republicans are asking President Trump to declassify.

Speaking at an event hosted by the Center for Security Policy on Thursday, Nunes said that Trump is close to declassifying portions of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant granted against former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

On July 21, the Justice Department released heavily redacted versions of four FISA warrants granted against Page from Oct. 2016 through June 2017.

The unredacted portions showed that the FBI relied heavily on the infamous Steele dossier to obtain the warrants. Republicans have accused the FBI of abusing the FISA process by citing the dossier even though it was unverified and financed by Democrats as part of an opposition research project.

Before that release, Nunes and other Republicans on the House Intelligence panel sent a letter to Trump calling on him to declassify and release 21 pages of the fourth and final FISA warrant.

“In the course of the Committee’s investigation, we have uncovered irregularities with the process by which DOJ and FBI obtained information and sought and renewed three times a warrant pursuant to FISA on U.S citizen Carter Page,” the letter reads.

Nunes, a close ally of Trump’s, noted that Democrats and media pundits claimed after the initial release of the FISAs that “the really bad stuff about the Trump campaign was buried in the redactions.”

“And I said, you know what, you might be right. We should declassify the whole thing,” Nunes said Thursday, according to The Washington Free Beacon.

Nunes asserted that Trump’s critics have backed away from that argument out of fear that the rest of the FISA application will be damaging to the FBI and the narrative that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian government.

“And you know why? Because I think they’re going to be frightened by what you see,” Nunes said of Democrats and the press.

Nunes’ comments echo remarks he made in an interview on Fox News on July 29.

“We are quite confident that once the American people see these 20 pages, at least for those that will get real reporting on this issue, they will be shocked by what’s in that FISA application,” Nunes told Fox’s Maria Bartiromo. (RELATED: Nunes: Americans Will Be ‘Shocked’ By What’s In Carter Page FISAs)

Republicans are also pressing Trump to release summaries of interviews that the FBI conducted with Bruce Ohr, the Justice Department official whose wife worked for Fusion GPS, the firm that commissioned the dossier.

Ohr was in contact with dossier author Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS. The FBI conducted at least 12 interviews with Ohr from November 2016 to May 2017 following his contacts with Steele and Simpson.

Congressional sources have told The Daily Caller News Foundation that Trump is likely to declassify the FISA documents first and then release the Ohr reports.

Sources also claim that the FISA application will be damning for the FBI both because of the information in the documents as well as information that was left out of them. Republican have hinted that the FBI failed to include exculpatory information about Trump associates in the FISA applications.

@Yellowdog You know that it is considered a conservative “Rag website” Right? ?

Several past writers for The Daily Caller had ties to white supremacist, racist and anti-Semitic groups and espoused theories promulgated by such bodies.

Doesn’t prove anything; except you following a “white supremacist, racist and anti-Semitic” website.

@Yellowdog At this stage, I don’t know quite what to think of your unflagging confidence in Trump’s innocence.

“The Daily Caller is a conservative American news and opinion website.”
Why would you want to allow yourself to be influenced by something so blatantly biased? If you check this out you’ll see the Daily Caller is way down in the dumps, along with the likes of the National Enquirer. It contains “Propaganda and misleading information.”

The despicable Republicans’ desperation is showing waving the FISA warrants as battle flags.

It’s not going to make fools of thinking Americans with brains, only those deplorable ones without it.

trump must be quaking in his golden pajamas as to what Manafort might be saying to Mueller.

I have come to admire Mueller’s management of this task. Thus far he has methodically gathered evidence against everyone thus far indicted. He’s managed to do this free from leaks, an extraordinary achievement for an investigation of this scope and duration. Has anyone else noticed that every individual indicted thus far, no matter how defiant initially, once confronted with the evidence against them, buckles and abandons any hope of a viable defense? Not a single indictee has chosen to sit through a trial!

I’m beginning to suspect that Mueller might well force Trump’s reluctant resignation through utilization of this same tactic.

^From your lips to God’s ears.

^^ AMEN!!!

The House Intelligence (and I use the word facetiously) Committee?!?!?!? NUNES!?!?!?! Seriously? That brown nosing sycophantic lap dog of Trump and his butt licking cohorts! Yeah, like I am gonna believe a single thing that worm says.

That’s why you should want all of this declassified.

There was FISA abuse first in obtaining warrants to spy on Carter Page and the Trump Campaign. Interestingy enough, Carter Paige has never been accused or indicted of any crime or even questioned.

There are hundreds of texts between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok and Bruce Ohr saying EXACTLY what they were doing, and that is the most damning information we have exposing this. But thus far, most of the documents from the FBI and DOJ have been slow or absent or heavily redacted. Now many of them are declassified or being declassified and are made public. Again, I’d think you’d want this, since you do not trust certain sources

I don’t have a problem with the release.

The only thing is that, just as with your (or rather Nunes’s) contention that the information that is available to date justifies the belief that there was FISA abuse, a totally false conclusion, the HIC has already predetermined what will be shown and will adhere to that conclusion no matter what.

Personally, I want everything the government has released on every topic. I want to know their conclusions and research on extraterrestrial life, the Kennedy assassination, Amelia Earhart, Abu Ghriab, Trumps tax returns, the Panama invasion and a whole host of other things.