Fluther: Why are lesbians more execptable then homosexual men?

acceptable than

lefteh (9429

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Oh damn, I swear my spelling is getting worse.

wrestlemaniac (810

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I think it’s because shows of masculinity (displays of, competition, etc) are often central to male relationships, while women’s relationships have always seemed much more emotional. But perhaps the easiest answer is the best: men like the image of women having sex, but women don’t have the same reaction toward men.

darrellsilver (27

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interesting

wrestlemaniac (810

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My theory:
In modern culture, I think as the sexuality of women means being more revealing with each generation. The skirts can’t get much smaller, therefore a hyper sexual female can add to her sexuality by combining with another female. It’s always done in clubs while looking HOT, is it not?

I live in San Francisco where everyone is accepted, so I assume we’re talking about lipstick lesbians…

We, as a society, have rated men on being bread winners. I don’t think it will be long before we are objectified as well.

VoodooLogic (729

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Necro, you’re expert on he subject what do you say?

wrestlemaniac (810

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@darrellsilver: As a woman, I can say that I do have the same reaction to man and man. I find it equally erotic.

augustlan (47745

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Well Seeing as I’m the lesbian, from what I know women are much more cleaner than guys.

Darknymph (189

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Cleaner?
We’re not that messy….

lefteh (9429

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Well…how do they…..

Darknymph (189

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See here and here.

lefteh (9429

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Well….How do they…..what?

trudacia (2513

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See lefteh’s link!

wrestlemaniac (810

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Last time I checked, hygiene wasn’t some that had much to do with gender.

MrMeltedCrayon (2804

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Can’t…I’m at work and it’s blocked.

trudacia (2513

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oh well she meant…sex.

wrestlemaniac (810

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true, not that I have anything against guys on guys, I am on one side so for me, It’s gross. but hey there are other girls out there who find it hot.

Darknymph (189

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hmm. you might be to deep into this Dark.

wrestlemaniac (810

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I do too, augustlan. very much so. I figured I’d be alone here. lol

poofandmook (17320

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I don’t see any difference. I just think gay men is a hot political and social topic right now.

As soon as the lesbian women permiate pop culture as much as gay men have, you might get some different feedback.

Spargett (5395

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heterosexual men likes lesbian sex = 1points
heterosexual women is ok with lesbian sex = 0points
homosexual men is ok with lesbian sex = 0points
homosexual women likes lesbian sex = 1points
1+0+0+1=2

heterosexual men hates gay sex = -1points
heterosexual women is ok with gay sex = 0points
homosexual men likes with gay sex = 1points
homosexual women is ok with gay sex = 0points
-1+0+1+0=0

Lesbians 2 points
Gays 0 points

wilhel1812 (2877

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huh?

poofandmook (17320

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Because gay men threaten straight men’s masculinity.

VoodooLogic (729

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wow i forsee this to be a good thread.

wrestlemaniac (810

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I think because we live in a mostly patriarchal society—it is harder for men to accept male homosexuality——because ‘men should be manly men.’ The macho, machismo, big boys don’t cry thing. They fear it because it is not status-qua. I think women who buy into the patriarchal society and its rules also have a hard time with it.

And in a patriarchal society women are less valued [look if women were valued men wouldn’t get 18 months for rape!] so it’s less of a threat if they are homosexual.

That’s my take anyway…

SeekerSeekiing (966

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@Seeker, yes, my thoughts precisely. Women in general, and women’s sexuality in particular, are not taken seriously. Additionally, there seems to be an idea out there that if there is no penis it’s not really sex, so whatever two women get up to, its nothing particularly serious or threatening to the established order of things. Finally, there’s the male fantasy that all those two gals need is an evening with HIM, and that will be the end of that lesbian foolishness.

Another take on the macho man issue: when a man takes a ‘passive’ role in gay sex, it is seen as very transgressive in our society. It is considered a step down, a surrender of male privilege, for a man to take on the ‘traditionally female’ role. It terrifies some people.

Larssenabdo (555

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Larssenabdo, yes…homosexual men are seen by macho men as giving up their POWER as men——scares the behoovers outta them;-)

SeekerSeekiing (966

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Butch women face more discrimination than “lipstick lesbians”. I think it’s an erroneous statement to say that lesbians are more acceptable. When lesbians look Jennifer Beals, they might be acceptable, but show a group of men two “butch” lesbians making out, and I’m sure opinions will change.

tinyfaery (44085

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@tinyfaery: Ah, so true. I think, actually, that “butch” lesbians are even less accepted than gay men! Look at Rosie and Kelli. Rosie’s not even butch, just tomboyish, and look at all the crap she gets! Makes me sick.

poofandmook (17320

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@seeker and lars—Don’t you think that’s a particularly simplistic and offensive view of men? Imagine if I said something that stereotyped women to the extent that the two of you just stereotyped men. For instance:

“Heterosexual women take a negative view of homosexuality among men because, as women, they desire men who are more ‘manly’ and and sexually dominant than themselves. This is only natural, since, as the ‘penetratee’ in heterosexual intercourse, they are naturally more vulnerable than men.”

Offensive, no?

Poser (7808

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I’m male, Poser. And, no, I don’t find it simplistic and offensive. I don’t think it’s stereotyping, either. If it doesn’t apply to you, that’s cool; it doesn’t apply to me, either.

Larssenabdo (555

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Oh, I see. The classic, “it applies to others of my group, but not myself” argument.

Poser (7808

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It may be a classic argument, but in my case it happens to be true: I don’t get the whim-whams about gay sexuality. I never said it applied to all males.
Methinks the Poser doth protest too much.

Larssenabdo (555

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So you’re qualified to speak about other men’s fantasies about lesbians and thoughts on gay sex, even though you don’t share any of them, right?

And yeah, I must be gay because I take offense to your presuming to speak for mankind. After all, anyone who poses any arguments to your point of view must only do so because you’re right.

Poser (7808

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@Poser: actually, I think he was saying that you protest too much about disagreeing with his statement, meaning you probably subscribe to it.

poofandmook (17320

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It’s really pretty simple, Poser. It’s got to do with areas of expertise, education, and the like. I’m not talking out of my butt; I’m talking sociology, gender studies, etc. None of which you have to agree with, just like I could argue with you about photography—in which I see you have some expertise—if I wanted to.
Again, I never said I spoke for mankind; I expressly stated last time that I never said it applied to all males.
Whatever you’re talking about in your last sentence, my last sentence was actually intended to be humorous. I do that sometimes to lighten things up; I’m not much for arguing for its own sake.
Why don’t you hold forth with your own august opinion instead of sniping at mine?

Larssenabdo (555

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Poser:

I was not stereotyping ‘men.’ I was making a statement about our ‘society’==meaning a broad grouping of people having common traditions and institutions. That broad grouping does not paint every man a certain way, with the same brush, so to speak. Within the broad group of “society” there are many, many sub-groups.

In your example you are painting ‘Hetersexual woman’ with one brush—and citing only one group.

SeekerSeekiing (966

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@seeker—“it is harder for men to accept male homosexuality——because ‘men should be manly men.’”

In my original statement, I was merely trying to point out the double standard of referring to men in such terms, when similar stereotypes about women would be seen as highly offensive. It’s one of my pet peeves.

Poser (7808

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Poser, oh I see…my…‘manly men’ was constructed to mean that’s what the patriarchal society would think. I’m sure they have many ‘shoulds’ about women [and almost everything else ;-] also. Thanks for your patience in guiding me to understand your point.

SeekerSeekiing (966

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I’d argue that our society, while perhaps once a “patriarchal” one, is certainly that no longer. The pendulum has swung quite far in the other direction, thanks largely to radical feminism.

Poser (7808

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We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one…‘fersure.’

SeekerSeekiing (966

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ROFLMAO!

Larssenabdo (555

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Many men are more insecure than they like to let on about how masculine they seem. When an insecure man sees two men together, it pokes right at this insecurity. And it’s a lot easier to lash out at the thing that provokes the insecurity than it is to get rid of the insecurity.

cwilbur (14236

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Cwibur——applauding!!! Right on…

SeekerSeekiing (966

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Poser! SS! stop this fighting. please.

Darknymph (189

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And I have this theory but I might be wrong.

Darknymph (189

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Darknymph, me too——that’s the thing about theorys…

SeekerSeekiing (966

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Tell me, or better yet PM me.

Darknymph (189

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Darknymph! Stop telling people what to do. Please.

poofandmook (17320

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she’s not telling anyone what to do.

wrestlemaniac (810

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Yeah, what’s the deal.

NecroKing (328

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I think you’re a little poofed in the head.

Darknymph (189

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They live for this! Ignore people, ignore… I know it’s difficult.

trudacia (2513

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Easy there, we’re not starting anything, and you have no right to force others to isolate us, and Dark apologize please.

wrestlemaniac (810

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you’re right trudacia… I forgot myself.

poofandmook (17320

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All right I’m sorry, but Poof, you started it, Anyway who was I bossing around?, I only boss my boys around.

Darknymph (189

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biting my tongue is SO DIFFICULT. I think it’s bleeding.

poofandmook (17320

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Ehh…........Oh,Uh just answer her, it’s not that hard, it’s not like we’re all going to start trouble.

NecroKing (328

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Good job poof!

trudacia (2513

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eh… time to saddle up and hit the ol’ dusty trail…

poofandmook (17320

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I have a hypothesis on why hetero men have such a visceral reaction to homosexual acts. One, I agree with cwilbur that a portion of it is macho posturing due to insecurity and fear. The thought of being gay can be really scary to some.

Also, in broad evolutionary terms, the male objective has been to induce pregnancy as frequently as possible in order to ensure reproductive success. Therefore, where men are concerned, homosexual activity is reproductively “wasteful”, i.e. time spent away from coitus, time that the male is not siring children.

Women, on the other hand, tend to be more sexually open. The contrast of male and female reactions to homosexuality interests me because, conversely, females have large gaps where coitus is reproductively “wasteful” due to pregnancy, not to mention most of the time when they are not ovulating. I would say that this gives women a different sexual M.O.; they have a great deal of “free” time where reproduction is not the main focus of sexual activity.

It’s interesting because males seem more focused on the orgasm, while women tend to function on a more emotional level. Women focus more on personalities, relationships, feelings; it just makes sense to me that they would be less stuck on gender, more understanding of the emotions involved in relationships. Also, it is not uncommon for women to be unable to orgasm through coitus, or they may be with a partner that doesn’t give equal priority to her pleasure.

With all that in mind, it seems natural to me that women might be open to non-traditional sexualities. It’s pretty easy for most men to orgasm, but it’s a bit more complicated for women. It takes some learning about what works and how to go about it. Exploration and sexual plasticity may have actually benefited women in this sense.

I realize I’ve generalized here, but hopefully you get the idea. It’s late, I babble.

MissAnthrope (21511

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It’s okay I’m a light sleeper.

Darknymph (189

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