Any attempt to establish a performance standard, whether it is school, sports, or beauty or whatever, winds up looking like it is discriminating against anybody who cannot meet the standard.

Which means everybody at some point gets to argue that they are being discriminated against.

Until all standards are eliminated, and then it will be a shoot-out.

And the surivors will start to establish standards to avoid the chaos.

And so on.

I think that’s what this song is about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJvki4VNwE

I think it is the lack of test skills and practice testing at less privileged schools. Most other schools don’t have private tutoring but may have test prep. Test “freeze” and panic while taking test is real, but may not have to do with whether the schools are low income or higher income neighborhoods. There are several high scoring schools in North Carolina in low income areas but they have involved teachers and principals. They spend time at practice tests in school.

I don’t think so. I was lower income and did pretty well without a tutor or anything. So did a ton of my lower income friends. Anecdotal maybe, but it’s reality. And I did get a pre test at the library for free, to study.

@KNOWITALL I’m from a higher income background and I didn’t opt for any private tutoring or test prep. My parents did offer, but I was like “nah”. I was lazy and didn’t want to do it.

I ended up doing well on the test because I have a knack for tests (I did better on the tests than a couple friends who had superior GPAs). I went to a public high school that was very economically diverse (included kids of millionaires as well as kids who were homeless) and my school did offer a free test prep class that anyone could attend. Obviously I agree that test prep can significantly help and many wealthy parents probably insist on spending as much as possible on it. But college admission isn’t just about test scores, it never has been…

@Demosthenes Agreed, I was surprised I did well as I was rebelling against college at the time. I’m a terrible tester, nerves get to me.

I get so tired of people assuming that “lower income students” = dumb or ignorant. The two do NOT go hand in hand. Education and income are two completely separate things.

It was unfortunate, but ended up raising my kids in real poverty for all of their school years. No, those tests would not discriminate against them because they knew how to read with comprehension and how to use critical thinking skills. We had a lot of fun debates in our household, with me asking question that they really had to think about.

Being poor also did NOT mean being filthy and dirty in my world. If a window pane broke, I fixed it. If the front yard had toys all over, the kids got out there and cleaned it up. Our lawn was always nicely, neatly mowed, even though the exterior of the rental house was an absolute piece of shit.

Probably yes it does discriminate, but if it is a good indicator for how well a kid might do in a particular school it might still be a valid barometer.

Some states have done away with parts of affirmative action and quotas for college admissions, because there was evidence that some of the kids getting in were being set up to fail. Lowering the standards was helping some groups get in, and unfair to those who really should have been admitted. But, it’s incredibly imperfect, because of course there can be some brilliant children who by no fault of their own don’t test well, but would be very successful if given the chance.

The real problem is K-12 education should be fair and equal to all, but it isn’t.

Of course, not all poor people are minorities, and not all minorities are poor, but poverty is the main underlying problem for inferior educational opportunities. Being poor also can mean the child has less exposure than a child being raised with more money. Subject matter on a SAT might be more familiar to a child raised with money, because they have more experiences.

@Dutchess_III Did your children do very well on the SAT/ACT test? You grew up middle class, and have a college degree, so it’s not the typical poverty situation.

I don’t think they ever took SAT/ACT tests. Only thing I know is that my son tested out at the college level for reading comprehension, which we laugh about to this day. He has always hated reading, and was a notoriously horrible speller. When he couldn’t read at the end of his first grade year I took matters into my own hands, and taught him how to read myself.

@Dutchess_III So, if statistically children from poor environments do worse on the ACT and SATs do you just dismiss that as a bad statistic? I don’t know what the statistic is.

My dad was extremely poor and did extremely well on the SATs, so it’s not like I think all poor people test badly, I just wonder if you are willing to accept the poor might be at a disadvantage.

You talk about your children as an example, but they didn’t even take the test. Doing college level reading means he probably would have done average or better on the reading section. What about math? You really don’t know how he would have tested.

I was raised middle class, but I was lazy, didn’t take the test very seriously. I did very well on the math, but very average on the reading. The second time I took it I brought up my reading score a little. When I tested for my university I got a perfect score in math and my reading was very high, I don’t remember the number. The SAT was more difficult than the test I took at MSU when I was a new student.

I say it’s because of overall environment, not money.

Of course the poor have a disadvantage. But many of the problems are still within their control. They just don’t care to address it.

Wow.

If they don’t address it, it’s because it’s not important to them.
There are poor people who are active in their child’s education. They go on field trips. They send cupcakes on their birthday.
On the other hand, there are rich people who figure it’s all up to the school and they stay out of it.

^^So cupcakes at school make them good parents regarding their kids education? I call bullshit on that.

I can’t tell you how many of my friends were pressured by teachers and fellow parents to do things like that, and they mostly resented it. My friends are upper middle class, plenty involved with their kids education, eat meals together, family oriented, good parents. They did volunteer to help when they could, but all but one worked full time, and taking off for a field trip was difficult. Having a teacher try to guilt them was not appreciated.

@JLeslie You are being ridiculous. Of course “cupcakes at school” doesn’t make them good parents. It’s just one thing that tells the kids “You’re important to me.” One of a hundred things a parent could do. Helping with homework, reading to them.
Doing what you can when you can is good enough. At least you aren’t completely blowing off the biggest influence in their lives.
Plenty of wealthy people blow off the most important thing in their kid’s lives too, but the media doesn’t say that being wealthy is the cause.