The colonies have never had an honest relationship with their own history.
In fact, they bury their history, falsify it, make excuses for it.
“Never again” is not a sentiment you will generally hear when it comes to slavery or the native american genocide.
What you will instead hear is “I had nothing to do with it!”.

There is no legitimate white privilege or guilt. When you consider all I mean ALL the benefits blacks have, colleges. tv network, scholarships, it does not stand up to the test. The blacks in our country are exceptionally well treated. Especially while BLM tears up cities, murders and burns everything in sight. Looting and calling it “reparation”. However, that having een said the self-respecting majority of blacks must be so so embarrassed, ashamed of BLM, antifa being displayed on the world stage. If they’re American they need to act like it. Hate America? Leave. Couldn’t happen too soon.

As a caucasian, cisgender, mostly hetero male who speaks EFL, I’m well aware of the intrinsic privileges I have.

Even though my family and I are immigrants from Canada, nobody has ever told any of us to go back to where we came from.

Nobody has ever tried to force me to use a bathroom I wasn’t comfortable using.

As far as I know, nobody has ever denied anyone of my ethnicity or gender the right to vote, based solely on those attributes.

No cop has ever hassled me for driving around in the “wrong neighborhood”.

AFAIK, nobody has ever said it was okay to rape me because of what I was wearing or because I was married to my hypothetical rapist.

Nobody has ever passed any laws forbidding me to marry the one I love.

@Strauss

Have you sung any songs with your wife or your children?

@Brian1946 They don’t consider themselves singers, so no. But my youngest played a drum set in a class I taught at her high school. Of course we sing together with certain songs when they come up on someone’s playlist.

I think white privilege exists – you see it every day. But as you noted, @Strauss , that is not an equivalent of guilt.

How do apportion guilt anyway? My grandparents were thrown out Germany in 1938 for being Jewish. I’m not asking Germany to do anything for me 90 years later.

This is related to the whole black reparations question – something I have a big problem with. What makes a black person in 2020 a worthy recipient of reparations? Simply the color of their skin? That’s crazy.

MY view is that acknowledging is a big step, and working towards a non-privilege world is the next step.

I just got back from the store. While I was there there were two women with two little boys who looked very much the same. Because I am the mother of twins, their interactions reminded me very much of my own kids, and I asked if they might perhaps be twins.

The women reacted with hostility. Do you know why? It’s because I’m white and they’re black. Unfortunately it happens all the time. If she had been another white woman, the scenario would have turned out much more pleasantly.

Somehow I am responsible for how I am perceived in a perfectly innocent situation. As a sidenote my daughter is engaged to a very black skinned man from Africa. We adore him.

It’s nuts.

@snowberry But you acted like “they all look alike to me”. To their mothers they don’t look at all like twins or even brothers.

And @si3tech demonstrated the reason that white privilege can be shown. ”...blacks have, colleges. tv network, scholarships.

Blacks had to create their own colleges because they were not allowed to attend other colleges. Same with Black Medical Schools.

Black people created their own TV networks because black culture was not shown on network TV, and network TV executives limited the number of shows with black characters, and limited the number of black characters in any given show except for stereotypes.

Blacks don’t get any more scholarships than whites, but some were given preference for some scholarships to address systemic racist poverty and because blacks were not permitted to attain scholarships reserved for whites.

@si3tech carries on the racist trope that “BLM is rioting” but says nothing about the violent white supremacist counter demonstrators that have gone into peaceful BLM demonstration to create chaos. And then he throws in “antifa” as a kicker to explain how bad things are, when antifa is a paper tiger made up by the administration to quiet resistance to their crimes.

Seriously @si3tech super racist and out of touch.

I was raised in a white, middle class area, and to us, racism was something that other people did. We were actually little prejudiced fucks, but we didn’t know it. We knew saying the n word was bad, even if it was funny when Quentin said it. Basically there just weren’t a lot of black kids, and those there were were pretty culturally identical to the rest of us. This didn’t create hate, we were never taught that, but it did create a massive amount of privileged thinking. It was ok for us to call affirmative action “reverse racism” it was ok for us to mock PC culture, and wear shitty dreadlocks. To make a racist joke at the only present black person’s expense, as long as you quickly apologized, was common. We thrilled in the transgression of racist humor, in part, because we couldn’t actually see the harm we caused; we figured if we weren’t racist in our hearts, whatever we joked about was just humor. I’m sure my experience was different than other people’s but I feel like this kind of dimwitted ignorant racism is pretty common.

Lol,. These children were close enough in size and behavior they could have been siblings, twins or just best friends. I couldn’t have known.

I grew up in Utah, where it seemed like ALL the little kids were blonde and blue-eyed. Put them in a swimming pool and you bet they all looked the same! Every summer when my kids were little I had a terrible time spotting my kids among all the other little yellow heads in the pool!

But I get it. I shoulda known better, just cuz I’m white and they are black.

@snowberry How did you know it was because of the racial differences that they were hostile? Did they say so?

@canidmajor That’s a good question.

I don’t “know,” except that many times I’ve struck up the exact same conversation with other people (Hispanic, Caucasian, Asian, etc.) with kids and I’ve never had a negative reaction except with African American folks.

My guess is that they’ve been so hurt so often by people who look like me that they don’t have any more listening for anything I might have to say.

I sure don’t want to cause them more hurt.

On a documentary in CNN? Might be by Christiane Amanpour? The blacks prison population where in long term jail for minor crimes, dealing pot ect. while the white population where the worst criminals because “they must have done a serious crime because of white privilege. ”

It’s just really important for people to learn and change, and teach their kids properly. We all need to acknowledge that things like mental illness, racism, sexism and other prejudices are real and try to mitigate some of the damage we’re all facing.

You still have people denying the most basic sociological facts of life. The effects of poverty, marginalization and abuse are well documented.

When we were teenagers, we said “gay” all the time, but I stopped because I knew it hurt people. I grew up and started learning about the plights of the LGBTQ community and that’s all it takes. Stories you hear like a gay man coming out to his church and losing friends he made over 15 years in an instant….That person now feels isolation and probably is gonna be damaged from that.

But if I started saying crap like “gays dont have it that bad” then more ignorance is propagated.

White privelage, sure. Didnt ask for it but I recognize its there. Cops were/ are my heroes. But I acknowledge there are bad people everywhere.

White guilt, no I didn’t do anything to hurt anyone, ever. Didnt see color as a divider, plenty of kids of missionaries and immigrants around. Once I was offered a racist lifestyle and I walked away.

@si3tech: “The blacks in our country are exceptionally well treated.”

If anyone is wondering how racist the US is, go back and read @si3tech‘s response. This is textbook racism and conservative media-fueled confusion. One of the more shocking things I have read here.

Back in the day in super-liberal Eugene Oregon we had about 1% of the population that was African-American. I was a manager at a theater but 90% of the time I was doing projectionist stuff. But the manager that did hiring was on vacation so I handled that while she was gone.

So we had this guy that wanted to transfer from another theater. Tons of experience. No real need to even interview him.

But the general manager was there when I did interview him. We needed bodies and he had years at a theater. Easy decision. Should have had him fill out the paper-work that night. But the general manager pulled me aside and said “we already have one of them”.. “One what?”.. “A black dude.”

He did not get the job.

Apparently @si3tech expects blacks in this country to be happy little docile negros and to be thankful to us white folks for all the colleges, scholarships, TV networks, etc that they’ve had to create themselves.

“Massa sho’ do treat us good.”

I think the time has come to not bring up subjects like this otherwise you’ll be blacklisted as a racist. We are all equal, we are all the same.

White privilege exists, although I don’t really like the term. Part of white privilege is socio-economic class, especially generational. It all ties together, but what I am saying is poverty puts people at a disadvantage no matter what their race, nationality, or ethnicity is, and money gives all people certain advantages no matter what also.

White guilt—no. I don’t think people should feel guilt for what their ancestors did, or what people in their group did in history. We can feel badly, feel sympathy, feel empathy, and try to right the wrongs, but I am responsible for myself not anyone else. If everyone was being treated equally now there would not be an issue. It is the ongoing unfairness in society that keeps the issue alive, not what happened 50 or 150 years ago.

My own people were slaves off and on throughout history. My people were sent to gas chambers and ovens and to camps, and I grew up knowing it. It’s not the made up BS floating around facebook about how white people were slaves too. Most white people are not raised with that hanging over their heads. My group, the Jewish people, changed their surnames to try to be accepted, are nervous about putting a mezuzah on their door in many places in America, and do have a disproportionate amount of hate crime committed against us. It actually is quite annoying that I come across so many Black people who forget the Jews came out and fought for them for civil rights, and that some Black people think they own the term civil rights. Many groups fight for equality for themselves and for others.

Sometimes I wonder if some Black people even realize how so many of us Jews grow up very aware we have been and still are hated by too many people around the world. We too worry about being bombed or shot in our places of worship, and we worry about swastikas and confederate flags. I completely identify with the fear and sorrow associated with a White Supremacist going into a Black church and shooting people, but I don’t think a lot of Black people believe I do. My intent in talking about this is not to say, “well what about me,” but rather to say a lot of people do understand being discriminated against and being afraid. LBGTQ, women, Latin Americans, Asians, the poor, and more. If we want each others help we need to see and accept each other.

To be clear, I am not saying all Black people have a chip on their shoulder or that all of them don’t have empathy for other minorities. I am only saying when I come across a Black person who doesn’t it is annoying.

I think there are systemic reasons why Black people are still disproportionately in the lower classes, and these things have to be addressed.

Most people don’t see color if they feel similar to the person in their world view and culture. That’s my experience anyway. People look to find commonalities and build rapport. When we know each other we don’t want to hurt each other.

@JLeslie I’m surprised no one makes the connection either. I don’t know how the shift from white supremacy originally being towards Jewish people switched to black people. And just from being online too much in the past and wasting time arguing with trolls, it seems like black people and Jewish people are probably the most “talked about”. Black people for their crime statistics and jewish people for very odd conspiracy theory stuff.
I know absolutely nothing about it, but there are always really odd conspiracy theories about Jewish people.
I know that’s a small minority of crazy people on the internet but it still makes you wonder what is going through some people’s heads.

There is a very odd phenomena going on amongst very fringe groups of some black people, especially some wealthier black people about being the original “chosen ones” and a bunch of religious stuff I dont understand at all.
Like Jay-Z got involved so everyone already listens to everything he says.
Too many people are watching youtube videos and treating all information as equal.

We’ve all talked about this here on Fluther long ago. The “brain drain” and anti-intellectualism is still running strong and was only amplified by the internet.

No one reads or researches anymore, it’s all what celebrities say and what fringe activists say.

And I also wanted to touch on another topic that I dont see anyone bring up. Most likely since everyone picks a side and doesnt want to actually communicate nuance and detail in this emotion-ridden battlefield.

But I feel like some people are under the impression black people hate white people, and that is largely not true. Like the notion of using reparations as some method of “revenge” against white people or something.

I’m under the impression at least, that most people regardless of race have way too much pride to even accept money they haven’t earned themselves. When I was younger, I took pride in using my own paycheck to go out and do stuff for myself. I was afraid to even be seen in public being paid for by another person, like a girlfriend for example, because at least in my head, I’d feel like people would say “Doesn’t that guy have his own money?” I personally have large pride issues and never will be seen as a drain or taking a “handout” and I know this sentiment is common amongst other black males. A popular rap lyric is “Get up, get out, and get somethin, dont spend all your time trying to get high” but anyways lol.

And yea, there are definitely what I think is a small fringe group of black people that legitimately hate white people, but they are such a minority within an already existing minority, their voice can sometimes be amplified.

Most people are moderates that are being drown out by the extremes on both sides. Most people just go to work and go home. I personally dont even know anyone that protests on either side. I dont even know who has the time for that stuff. So I just wanted to put that out there.

For the record. It is totally understandable if all black people did hate white people.

Don’t the white people people hate all brown people for stealing the jobs? That was Trumps platform..

When my mom was a kid there were “white only” water fountains. This isn’t some problem that was fixed 200 years ago.

@Blackberry I agree about the fringe group thing. The extremists on all sides are loud groups though, and some seem to be getting help from foreign countries to move their messaging across social media. The extremists are creating more and more division and paranoia in the country.

There was a recent Q about landlords. I couldn’t help but think that might be antisemitism. That is an old stereotype of Jews being landlords and mortgage holders and I think it lingers in some parts of the Black community.

What you said about these Black fringe groups and religion, are they preaching against wearing masks? I’m only curious because I have come across 3 (I know that’s a small number) Black people where I live who were wearing masks for work, but during our short interaction said they didn’t believe in the masks. It stuck with me because most Black people are Democrats and most Democrats are in favor of mask wearing.

Obviously, lots of whites and Blacks are marching together for BLM. I’m sure the majority of the Black community recognizes it.

Some communities are more segregated than others, and so I think that effects the relationships of the various races and minority groups. No one would bat an eye in my circles if someone is Black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Muslim, our connections have nothing to do with any of those things. My husband connects with car people, I connect with Zumba people. Lol. I make light of it, but that is where we meet a lot of people, and then you see if you have more common interests and become friends.

I am nervous extreme groups are taking advantage of BLM and it’s original message. Groups on both political extremes. It reminds me of the Tea Party going from wanting a balanced budget (most Americans want that) to becoming full of extreme right wingers.

The country needs a social media black out to calm the hell down.

Lastly, the WS always hated Black people. I don’t think there was a switch. The KKK hated Jews, Blacks, Catholics, they had a long list.

It seems as though I’ve seen where white people want to talk about racism, didn’t know how to go about bringing up the subject, and were then blasted as being racist for their attempt.

@kritiper I’ll speak for myself on that, and I agree with you.

Anytime I’ve tried to have a rational conversation, other white people attack me and others, here and elsewhere. I’m not allowed to say I have black friends or I’m mocked. I’m not allowed to say ‘I don’t see color’ which is the truth and how I was raised.

It’s not people of color who seem to have the biggest issue with discussing racial issues. Plus, you add the political component, that anyone who votes for a certain party has been called a racist for four years, which doesn’t help stimulate open and honest conversation.

@KNOWITALL “Anyone who votes for a certain party” is not necessarily racist, but they are complicit, because the leadership of that party has repeatedly and continually supported and encouraged racist policies.

If one does not wish to be complicit in racist activities, don’t vote for a party that continually behaves in a racist manner.

@zenvelo Thank you, another perfect example in your response.

If I don’t want to be complicit in the death of millions of babies, I can’t vote Dem.
If I don’t want to be complicit in racism, I can’t vote Rep.
If I want my vote to actually count, I can’t vote third party.

Then everyone on all sides bashes anyone who doesn’t vote.

That’s what shuts down intelligent conversation, Zen. I don’t know why you can’t see that’s part of the problem.

I agree with @KNOWITALL. It is impossible now. Since I am pro-choice I don’t have that conflict, so I can easily vote Democrat, even though some Democrats make me nervous. I am not nervous about Biden though.

@KNOWITALL All I can say is I know several people who are pro-life who are letting go of that issue for this election. The legal right to an abortion already exists, if you really believe you can outlaw abortion in the next 4 years by keeping Trump, then maybe you vote for him, but if you believe that nothing will change on the issue then it is moot.

It is really difficult for some of the people I know, some will not vote at all I think, and some are voting for Biden. They are literally told by their church they have to vote Republican, I think the church should lose it’s tax exempt status, but that is another story. I know people in your dilemma who don’t even attend church, but the abortion issue if very serious for them.

Even with a Democrat in the office of president abortion cases can be brought to the courts. Laws are still made on the local level to make it harder for women to get abortions. Trump will get a chance to put in another Supreme Court Justice maybe if he is in another 4 years, but as we have seen, the Justices don’t always vote how people predict.

I guess it’s a matter of the direction of the country this time. Do we continue on the same course?

@JLeslie I was boiling it down to those two issues to illustrate my point, but obviously more is involved than two issues in decision-making for most of us.

@KNOWITALL I get it. Really I do. I just see Trump constantly giving the nod to these horrible people. I think we are losing our place in the world too. I fear he will start a war, but I have feared that all along. I’m not trying to tell you what to do here, just saying I understand your point.

@johnpowell
Yea I fully understand the feeling. I grew up in Oregon too and have been kicked out of a house party (the guy said “I don’t care who he is I’ll fuckin kill em”, as well as called the N word to my face accompanied by a nazi salute. It’s possible that I just buried it and used it to make me tougher. I ended up joining the military solely to get out of my small town (Troutdale).

Black people handle this stuff differently. Some have way stronger self esteem than others.

I think some black people are putting blinders on to basically say “Don’t let it affect me, don’t let it affect me. I can go on with my regular life just stay positive.”

Yet some people are just so emotionally strong they really don’t care and just have a lot of confidence I guess.

My cousin just says “As long as no one invades the 6 inches around my body I’m fine” just meaning “Don’t touch me or my family or I’ll mess you up” lol. Hes a big guy.

@Blackberry “Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone but, if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.”
– Malcolm X

@JLeslie
I think in America regardless of race, there is just a massive anti-science and anti-government sentiment.
There were videos in philly of black people having massive block parties.
Some people think if they haven’t gotten sick or died then everything is fine.
Americans are great at having a “Whatever, I’ll do what I want” attitudes. This seems to be something that affects all people of financial and political standing. Being too nice or letting someone tell you what to do is seen as a weakness.
Some just see it as a temporary discomfort for the greater good I think. Some people still think its fake but wear the mask to not cause issues in public as well.

It has to be more than just hoping no one will kill you or your family. The country should be better than that. We need to have the same opportunities and safety for everyone.

@Blackberry What is really eerie to me is that a lot of people who didn’t wear a mask when they had the choice, they think covid is all overblown, when a mask order is put in place a lot of them followed along and complied. I am glad they comply, but as a Jew who her whole life has thought of Germans following along like good little soldiers it gives me a little bit of a troubled feeling. I do have one friend who refuses to comply with wearing a mask.

I think the mask order let’s some of these people save face. They can say, I don’t agree, but I’ll follow the rules, not worth creating trouble. The mask orders help people who have mixed feelings not have to make a decision that might harm their standing with their peers. The peer pressure is real for a lot of people I think.

@kritiper
These situations are unfortunate as well. And this is where nuance is important. It’s everyone’s job to “meet in the middle” for a conversation.

I’m fully aware that people just grow up in communities so homogeneous that race or really anything different isn’t an issue. The absence of diversity does not equal racism, and some minorities may confuse those two.

Some black people may think “He’s not aware of my struggle, he must be a racist.” But instead it should be “He probably just hasn’t grown up around black people and doesn’t know what to say.”

So as Americans in general, I honestly know nothing about people from India. We never had people from India in my school or town or barely even in the Navy. Americans seem more used to white, black, hispanic, latin, and asian for simplicity sake. I know there are vietnamese, Japanese etc.
Everyone is completely blind to someone’s culture somewhere, so it’s important for a minority to basically be like “Hey whatsup, what do you wanna know?” Lol

@Blackberry I think some areas, such as my own, also struggle with being mostly white communities so there’s just little experience or opportunity.

I like this:
“The absence of diversity does not equal racism, and some minorities may confuse those two.”

@KNOWITALL “If I don’t want to be complicit in the death of millions of babies, I can’t vote Dem”

That is false, and you know it. And there are not “millions of babies” dying. Abortion is not a party line issue, Plenty of Republicans support abortion and have since 1970. Trump himself was “proudly pro choice”. Just ask Roger Stone’s first wife.

But racism has been inherent in the GOP ever since Nixon’s Southern Strategy.

@Blackberry YES! That is what I mean when I say people need to stop being so easily offended. One of my friends was offended that her neighbor said to her she had never met someone Jewish before her (my friend is Jewish). I asked, “why is that offensive?” She looked at me like I should know. I told her I didn’t get it.

I find that there is more racism in places that have a high number of one minority. A few sprinkled in, no problem. Many different minorities, no problem. 30% or more of the population in a city or even a community, of a particular minority and then there is more likely some conflict. That’s how it seems anyway.

Edit: “All white Iowa” voted for Obama in the primaries. remember that line?

@zenvelo Sigh…here I go once again, because I can’t stand misinformation.

1) 50 million abortions since legalization in 1973.
2) If you don’t think abortion is a party line issue, you don’t know the Midwest/South.
3) Trump was Pro Choice, not anymore and it’s on the record.
https://eclj.org/abortion/un/donald-trumps-pro-life-achievements-2016-2020
4) The first black members of congress were Republican.

Come on, you know better than that.

It is mostly accurate that the Republican Party formed to oppose the extension of slavery, although up until the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, Abraham Lincoln and other Republicans pledged not to interfere with slavery in states where it existed. And the first 23 African Americans in Congress did belong to the Republican Party, due to the GOP’s support of voting rights and the Democratic Party’s embrace of white supremacy.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-democrats-republicans-and-complicated-history-race/3208378001/

@KNOWITALL Yea that’s why it’s good to have the conversations.
I think people don’t have time to fully flesh out a conversation in real life because people are just busy and stuff.
And then the rush to “dunk” on people and prove them wrong right away.

Sigh.. I’m not sure which face we should believe. In 1999 he is interviewed and says he is pro choice in every aspect.
So is he now saying he isn’t because of the election or because he truly believes it? No way to know, but with his history of lying, I’d say he was still pro choice.
Edited to add: on may 19, 2019 he stated I am strongly pro-life with 3 exceptions: rape, incest and protecting the life of the mother. I didn’t think pro life had any exceptions.

Not white guilt but awareness of privileges and a desire to make things fair should be what white people strive for. I’ll give an example. I was on line at an amusement park for face painting. I was holding the spot for my nephew and niece who went off to get one ride out of the way since both artist just started on some people and there was one family ahead of us. So my nephew and niece arrived just in time. The young lady skipped over us for the white man who had just arrived. And started to ask his children what they wanted. He could clearly see we were there before him. I told the young lady that I was waiting for the last 20 minutes and this man just arrived with his family. She ignored me and just said I have to wait for the other young lady. I was so angry I almost left but I didn’t want to ruin it for my nephew and niece and make a scene. That man, could’ve told her it wasn’t right and that I was there first, but he didn’t. He didn’t even want to make eye contact. He knew I was right and he knew we were being discriminated against.

That guy and those like him should feel guilt. Not for things that they never did but for the things they continue to do. When they avert their eyes to discrimination because it makes them feel uncomfortable. When they don’t stand up and teach their children how not to be complicit in racism by being a coward.

If I can stand up for other people when I see them being discriminated against at 5 ft nothing than others can do it as well.

I guess I just don’t really get why people who say they are so against “killing babies” seemingly have no problem with putting immigrant children in cages where they are mistreated and abused and sometimes dying from lack of care? What is so “pro-life” about that?

As to the main issue of white privilege and white guilt, I think it is helpful if we as individuals stop worrying about proving how “not racist” we are and start thinking about the benefits that have accrued to us as members of a white society that has kept an underclass down. What we need to do is figure out how to change that structure so that the people of color are more fairly treated and have access to the advantages that whites take for granted – like walking home from the store with Skittles or playing in a park.

@janbb It starts by standing up for your neighbors and friends and workmates and the stranger in your community. Can’t change a systemic problem without curing it at the root.

@Pandora Yes, I agree.

People hear “white privilege” and to them it means “every white person is better off than every non-white person. No white person should ever complain about anything. Every non-white person has it hard, and every white person has it easy.” Then they think of all the difficulties in their life and they dismiss the concept outright. But that is not how I understand it. In the same way that as a man, I am more comfortable with walking home alone at night than a woman would be, white people don’t have to worry about their race being a liability to the extent that say, black people do. That is white privilege. Not “every white person is rich” (which is honestly how I’ve heard it characterized by its detractors before). That privileges exist doesn’t mean white people are all racist. The fact that men and women in relationships and kiss publicly without repercussions but two men might not be able to in many places is another example of privilege. It does not mean all straight people are homophobic. It’s simply a consequence of how society is structured (and a result of human nature. Homosexuals will never be the “norm” and will always be subject to some “othering”, no matter how accepting a society is. Thus some privilege afforded straight people is unavoidable).

“White guilt” on the other hand is BS, in that it’s worthless for white people to feel guilty about injustices. It’s often a form of virtue-signaling and has the effect of making it all about them. Guilt is not a productive way to deal with injustice.

Getting pulled over for speeding in the middle of the night while having an open container of Southern Comfort in the car, and being let go with a “have a good night” and “be safe” is white privilege. I have no doubt whatsoever that if me and my friends had been black we would have, at the very least, been hauled off to jail. As it is we didn’t even get a speeding ticket.

@Demosthenes People hear “white privilege” and to them it means “every white person is better off than every non-white person. No white person should ever complain about anything. Every non-white person has it hard, and every white person has it easy.” Then they think of all the difficulties in their life and they dismiss the concept outright

I agree, it is because they don’t see that they are two different struggles. There is a difference between race discrimination and class discrimination.
Your homeless white person whether white or black is considered the lowest class there is. But the moment they get a job and a home,the white person will be treated better in society than the black man. People are treated with more deference the higher up the ladder you are whether they deserve it or not.

@Darth_Algar What state was that? Where I am from you would not get a “have a good night” even as a white person. I’m not trying to move off topic, I am just thinking how vastly different the treatment between the races would be if that was typical where you lived. We all know about the examples in the justice system for cocaine vs crack, but I never think of it in terms of driving (speeding) with alcohol in the car or driving while drunk.

@JLeslie

Illinois, in a region of the state that’s never gotten over the fact that they weren’t part of the Confederacy.

@Pandora That isn’t true in every instance.

@JLeslie Really? The cops are super nice here usually, especially to women. You would never wait alone on the highway or anywhere for long, they’d give you a ride or change your tire, or whatever was needed.

When we were young and had illegal alcohol, we were offered the choice of pouring it out and going on our way, or they’d call our parents. Not even a ticket or stern warning.

Even minorities here are still treated well from what my friends tell me. One local cop took a young dealers weed but didn’t file charges, but he could have.

@Darth_Algar: I was wondering when that happened. I ask because when I was in my late teens (which was in the 1980’s), we’d get treated that way. I tell people that we used to drink and drive and we’d smile at the cop and he’d send us on our way. Now, no dice and I wouldn’t chance it.

@kritiper It doesn’t have to be true all the time. There are exceptions to everything in life but the more frequent something happens the more that is the norm. Like racism shouldn’t exist but it does. Racism is more the norm than nonracist.

@Pandora ‘Racism is more the norm than nonracist.’

I’m confused as to why all states aren’t passing bills then?

My state, Missouri, has passed several to address racial profiling and police accountability after Michael Browns death. I won’t list them all, but they’ve made quite a difference I hear.

Senate Bill 5-limiting municipal income allowed, due to racial profiling.
Senate Bill 828-Police Dept accountability for racial profiling.
https://www.obs-stl.org/mo-legislative-update/

@KNOWITALL I’m confused about your statement. Are you saying because some states are passing some sort of police reform that racism must be dead all of a sudden or never had existed?

@Pandora No. I’m curious why or if more states are trying to pass laws like we have, to reduce racial tensions and profiling, etc… I’m certain we haven’t ‘beat’ racism, but we’re trying. Surely out of all the concerned folks, someone has done the research, so I figured it was worth asking.

Teens at drinking parties just had the parties broken up by the cops, so maybe they were letting people drive home drunk? I don’t know, I went to 2 or 3 house parties for maybe a half an hour. They certainly weren’t arresting kids for under age drinking.

Cops where I lived took drunk driving pretty seriously, but if I remember correctly the level was still .12 blood alcohol when I was a teen, I think most places were 08. We used to joke that was because the congressman had houses in our county. Late at night driving home on the weekends cops would drive right past speeding cars and pull over the car that couldn’t stay in their lane.

Although, this one girl had been arrested for drunk driving, and they let her go, no license suspended. A couple of months later, drunk driving, she went too fast around a curve and killed a friend of mine who was in an oncoming car, herself, and another friend of mine who was a passenger was badly hurt, but recovered. They weren’t very close friends of mine, but I knew them in school and the neighborhood. I didn’t know the drunk driver, but it is note worthy that her dad was a cop. Supposedly, they were easy on her as a favor. That was no favor in the end.

@jca2

2003, and we were all well out of our teens and absolutely old enough to know better.

2003?! WTF?!

I just watched United Shades of America on CNN S6 Ep5 The Time for Reparations. Fast forward to 45 minute mark where the German professor is speaking with the host W. Kamau Bell. It’s 45 on my recording for the hour show. It might be different if yours doesn’t have commercials.

A few episodes before there was one on Black farmers and farming in general in the US. That was really good.

I’ve had this discussion before. I think white privilege is a sham. I look back on my life and really don’t see anything that was better for me because I am white. My dad had a mental breakdown when I was about 10. He lost touch with reality, saw spies around every corner, couldn’t hold a job, etc. Mom tried to hold the family together and ended up working 3 jobs to do so. I pretty much had to raise myself from the time I was 12. I moved out of the house when I was 18 and moved in with some friends. After a year, I moved into my own place. I was working a decent job making pies and was putting myself through college. I didn’t qualify for a student loan because of my credit rating and mom made too much money for me to qualify for a grant. (yes times have changed). Eventually I went into the US Navy and got into the nuclear power program. So far, nothing I did was anything that anyone that wanted to couldn’t do. After I got out of the USN, I put my training to use and got a job in a nuclear power plant. About 10 years later, I had a chance for a promotion to a specialist position. I had the knowledge, I had the seniority, I had the abilities…and I didn’t get the job because another guy got it. He hadn’t been there as long, I had actually trained him, his performance wasn’t that good, his appraisals weren’t spectacular. But he was black and hinted he would sue for discrimination if he wasn’t promoted. So being white actually hurt me in that situation. Note: I don’t blame him…I blame the company for being so wishy-washy. He and I had an open and honest discussion about it and we remain friends to this day. But none of the things I did were things that any other person in this country couldn’t have done. I worked side by side with blacks and hispanics, men and women, even a few gays. They all had the same opportunities I did.
Here’s the thing: I think at one point white privilege may have been a part of our culture. But right now look around. Things are entirely changed. A black man was killed by a cop. A horrible tragedy to be sure, but would there have been a peep if it had been a white guy? More whites are killed by cops every year than blacks. Yet you never hear a thing about it. If a woman gets passed over on job, it’s a huge deal…it’s sexual harassment and everyone gets up in arms about it. If someone says something a gay person doesn’t like, the whole world seems to go crazy about how insensitive it is. But if any of those things happen to a middle class white male? Not a peep. And there is no way for that person to get any justice. So no, white privilege is, to me, just another way of trying to push the race angle that is getting extremely worn out.

@JLeslie

Why do you find that so shocking?

@KNOWITALL I’m curious why or if more states are trying to pass laws like we have, to reduce racial tensions and profiling, etc…

It’s impossible to legislate attitude. Racists exist therefore racism exists. There was no way to prove that my employer broke the law when I was fired because my wife was black!

@Darth_Algar: I find it shocking because where I live, it doesn’t matter what color you are, even back in 2003, no open containers allowed in the vehicle.

@Darth_Algar I don’t remember if we can have open alcohol in Florida, maybe it is ok if there is a passenger in the car, but that might be a different state I lived in. In Maryland, where I grew up, no open alcohol in the car and they were not playing. You said, you were speeding, and open alcohol, and were you alone in the car? That is just too many things going on to just let slide, especially in 2003. It’s not the 60’s before DUI laws were strengthened. I find it very surprising.

Right now a lot of laws were loosened in Florida regarding alcohol, because bars are closed for inside service, so maybe now you can drive with a take-away cup of alcohol.

Well I said “me and my friends”, so no, I was obviously not alone. And no, it isn’t ok even with a passenger. It was my best friend, myself and my girlfriend at the time. In her car and she was driving. Luckily, I have a way of keeping level-headed (though none of us were really drunk at the time, but we may not have passed a BAC test if asked). And, honestly, I have an ability to lie with a straight face. I asked the officer if I could speak with him for a moment. When he said “yes” I told him that my girlfriend’s father owned the car and that she shared the car with her sister (truth) and that we had no idea the booze was under the seat (lie), acknowledged that we were speeding and respectfully said that she would pay any fine or answer any court summons over it. He dumped the booze and let us go on our way.

Now I have no doubt that my speaking to the officer calmly, respectfully played a large part in him letting us go like that. However, what I do doubt is that I would have been given the courtesy of him hearing me out had we been black, rather than nice, unassuming white kids.

@strauss True. So your old boss was racist and fired you after seeing your black wife? Wow! That is so out of line I can’t fathom it. What part of the country if I may ask? And he was nice to you before knowing of your wife?

It happened twice. As I posted on another thread, in Orlando it was in the early 1990’s. In Denver it was in the mid 2000’s. From my original post about it:
One was the company owner, the other was a district manager. Both times I had a position I liked and had been performing well, complete with awards and promotions. Then at a company holiday party I introduced my wife. Within two weeks, in both instances, it was announced that my position was being eliminated. I could not prove it, but I was sure I knew the reason.

@Strauss Wow, so Pre-Trump in two completely different regions. Maybe it is more widespread in other areas than here in the Middle. That’s ironic and sad, I’m sorry. Too bad you couldn’t prove discrimination.

That’s one thing about laws, once they are bitten back, they should learn from it. I’m all about legislating racism out as much as we can, although I know it can intensify it in some as well.

We’ve been trying to legislate it out since the 1960s and before.

@Strauss And we still are, that’s why I have no problem with peaceful protests and think they are absolutely necessary for the benefit of us all.

So we’ve been at it 80 years and maybe it’ll take another 20 years, but eventually, hopefully, it will all die out. Although many WS are cult-like about indoctrinating the children, it’s so sad.

White privilege dies not necessarily mean one is better off just by the accident of being born white. It is the way one is treated based upon skin color, due to systemic racism in this culture.

An plain example of white privilege has been in the news the past few days, and has been pointed out by many in the media.

Quoting Trevor Noah:
How come Jacob Blake was seen as a threat for a theoretical gun that he might have and might try to commit a crime with, but this gunman (Kyle Rittenhouse) who was armed and who had already shot people, who had shown that he is a threat, was arrested the next day, given full due process of the law and generally treated like a human being whose life matters?

I'm going to put it like this. White people can ride the streets trying to get pulled over and not get pulled over (I know I have tried), but police go around looking for reasons to pull a black person over.