I can only say thank you and wish you courage. I’m very glad to know you’ve been vaccinated, at least.

I hope the vaccination works for you and keeps you safe. Too bad so many people can’t be bothered to take it seriously.

What do you know about the new strain of Covid traveling through Europe? Will the vaccine cover this strain?

Right now I know as much as you do from the news. I haven’t had a chance to look at it more as I am dealing with more local issues. As far as I am aware the vaccine will still work

What is the immunity curve like for vaccines that take multiple doses over many weeks? I’m sure this is unknown for the current COVID vaccines, but in-general? Does immunity rise linearlly over time? or do you get the bulk of the benefit early on, and the “last bit” is reinforced later with the 2nd dose?

Also does being 50% immune mean that your infection would be about half as severe as your unvaccinated twin? Is that the right way to be thinking about it?

Any news on whether vaccinated people can still be infectious carriers?

@gorillapaws Great question. I am told that once you get your second shot you will achieve the purported 90ish% immunity relatively quickly. And the % immune means nothing on an individual basis. You are either immune or you are not. That % is for a population.

That said, I have read that even if you are NOT immune after the shot and you get sick it will be a mild case.

Followinfg on from @Call_Me_Jay‘s question, once you get the booster and are a few weeks out, can you still be an asymptomatic carrier?

@Caravanfan Thank you for your hard work at answering our questions. Thank you for your patience with us. I sincerely hope you have good outcomes for your current patients and the ones to come.

Good grief! I can only imagine what you are going through. God bless.

@janbb Unknown. Assume yes.

Woul it be fair to say this is the wierdest virus ever? Or does it just seem that way because it’s brand new and not one person in the whole world had immunity?

I just came from getting vaccinated. I work at the Dept. of Health and was eligible. I checked in and filled out paperwork. They wanted to know if I’d ever had an allergic reaction to a vaccine. Then I got the shot. It was not cold. It felt like any other shot. Then they made me sit for 15 minutes to be sure I was OK. Finally, I made an appointment for 3 weeks to receive the second dose.

@Caravanfan Is it known how much protection the first shot gives?

Yay Jake!

Jake
The shot is two series. One shot does not give immunity. If you get one shot you are not protected

Why did one shot provide immunity to measles, mumps, rubella and polio but not Covid?

Oh, I’m having trouble stifling.

You get two shots for measles. It was one way back in the very beginning of the vaccine, but has been two for over 30 years. I don’t remember when exactly it was switched.

There are many reasons why the dose might be divided. I don’t know the specific reason for the mRNA. Possibly, a single large dose caused too many negative side effects. Possibly, they saw better immunity with a divided dose.

After the first dose of Pfizer they estimate about 50% immunity, after the second dose over 90%.

@JLeslie The doctor on this thread just stated the first shot does not provide protection. You’re going to need a very good source to back up your claim.

50% immunity might as well be nothing. You need the second shot.

Here is your source. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.amp.html

A bunch of questions on this thread were answered on a previous Caravanfan thread and are all over the air waves with Fauci and other experts answering them.

@gorillapaws This town hall was great with Fauci. Minute 18:40 ish just after that Fauci tells the audience immunity is reached 2 weeks after the first dose and 7–10 days after the second dose. Remember the 1st dose is only partial immunity. https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/app-news-section/full-coronavirus-town-hall-december-4/index.html

@Dutchess_III It doesn’t. You get multiple vaccines

@Hawaii_Jake I was on my iphone and typing shorhand, apologies. One shot will provide partial protection. @JLeslie is correct. I was just making the point not to count on that 50%. Get the second shot.

In my post, I mentioned making an appointment for the second shot. Of course, I’m getting the second shot.

Sorry. No offense intended. I was in a hurry. I shouldn’t do that.

My only side effect from receiving the first dose of the vaccine is a sore arm.

How long was the soreness @Hawaii_Jake?

I got the shot yesterday. My arm is sore now.

Worse than a tetnus shot or about the same?

@Dutchess_III Tetanus shot didn’t bother me either.

It hurt for a day. Most shots don’t.

I just heard there is no vaccine available for people under 16. Is this true? And is it a temporary thing until we get all the at risk people taken care of?

There is not a vaccine approved for under 18. . . .

Straight from FDA. “Vaccine to be distributed in the U.S. for use in individuals 18 years of age and older.”

The Moderna vaccine was not tested or approved for those under 18.
The Pfizer vaccine was not tested or approved for people under 16.

Neither one is approved for “pregnant and lactating individuals, and immunocompromised individuals.”

@Dutchess_III Not yet. They’ll figure it out.

Fauci answers regarding vaccines for children minute 31:45 on the same town hall video. https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/app-news-section/full-coronavirus-town-hall-december-4/index.html That whole video is good.

Since the vaccine is best used on people with healthy bodies (not immune compromised), and “...As the immune system ages and these capabilities decline, there is increased susceptibility to infections and cancer and an increased incidence of autoimmune disorders…” why is anyone assuming vaccination would be appropriate for the elderly in general?
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/immune-function-in-older-adults

As a side thought-
“More than 1.2 million Americans have HIV/AIDS. Around 14% of them don’t know they have HIV, which may make them especially vulnerable to other opportunistic infections.” from this link http://bioethicsbulletin.org/archive/how-many-americans-are-immunocompromised

@snowberry Because some immunity in the elderly is better than no immunity in the elderly.

Not sure what the relevance of your side thought is.

Just that according to that article, 14% of people with HIV don’t know they have it. I doubt anyone would test for HIV before administering the vaccine. Would you recommend these people receive the vaccine anyway?

@snowberry Yes, of course. The vaccine is safe, and I like I said above if you can get some protection then it’s better than nothing.

@snowberry Here is some information on the vaccine phase testing regarding older participants. They had very high immunity response to the vaccines, basically equal to younger adults, which scientists were happy to see, you’re right some vaccines older adults don’t seroconvert the same as younger people. Some older adults were vaccinated as far back as phase one, so they have been followed for several months. Many more in phase three. Here’s the article: https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/11/23/COVID-19-vaccine-hope-for-older-adults-AstraZeneca-Pfizer-Moderna-trial-data

Millions of older citizens are starting to be vaccinated so a lot more information will continue to be learned.

Some countries in Europe are prioritizing HIV people in their line up for who gets the vaccine when. Here’s an article. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28W1T1 I don’t remember reading any research about HIV positive people in the trials, but they very well might have been included in phase 3 testing I just don’t remember it.

I read a ton of information on the vaccines. Jellies probably remember my mom worked for vaccinations for the FDA. Not that she is an expert, neither am I obviously, but we are constantly looking at materials and talking about it just from a curiosity stand point.

@Caravanfan I don’t remember if this has been asked already. If a person has their high BP and diabetes under control are their conditions still considered risk factors? I’ve come to find out recently that some people who have their BP controlled with medication will say they don’t have high blood pressure, which is not how I look at, I think they still have high BP.

@JLeslie I don’t know. Probably not.

When Pence received his shot, they asked him if he was on any blood thinners. How do blood thinners affect anything?

I have been thinking a lot about the mental health of our front line workers. I ran across an article about some nurses having a ceremony for patients who had died from covid. One stated that she didn’t realize that she needed to cry; but once she started crying, she couldn’t turn it off. Should we be preparing for thousands of PTSD cases once we get past the worst? In my mind, you are on the front line of the worst battle this country has ever had

Thank you for giving your time. Each of you should receive a Medal of Freedom from the President

@SEKA It can make bruising from the shot worse.

In terms of PTSD, too late. Once this is over I’m probably going to retire. I’m kind of done with this.

Is the vaccine that has to be stored at freezing temperatures still cold when injected? Can one feel any different from the normal flu shots?

@RedDeerGuy1 It’s just like a regular shot.

I saw a brief news piece a few days back that Johnson and Johnson has created a vaccine that only requires 1 shot. Any idea what the efficacy is on the J&J vaccine?

@SEKA Not yet.

I’ a sissy when it comes to shots, so 1 vs 2 is an eye catcher for me. I haven’t found anything so far. Didn’t know if it was because I was searching wrong or if the report was a hoax

@SEKA Probably not a hoax. But not approved yet in US. I wouldn’t wait for it.

@Caravanfan Thank you. After asking the Q, I did another search and found some more info on this particular vaccine. From what I read today, it will be out so late that I pray that I’ll have my shot before then. It sounds like J&J are so late to the game that they may well be the last ditch effort. Taking a wild stab in the dark, most of their supply will go to countries in Africa or some of the really poor third world countries

I got excited at the thought of just 1 shot, but see that the reality is that it will most likely be 2

@SEKA It’s still early and policy is being rewritten practically weekly.

I keep hearing that people need to be “trained” to give the vaccinations. That doesn’t make sense to me. It’s just a shot, right?

@Dutchess_III Do you know how to give a shot properly?

They are saying the second shot should be given 3 weeks after the first shot. How important is the 3 week separation? Could it be given sooner or later and have the same outcome?

@chyna Probably not much sooner. Later is most likely okay.

Of course I don’t know how to give shots @Caravanfan. But Joe Blow public like myself won’t be administering the vaccines. Nurses and doctors will be. Aren’t they already trained?

Rumor has it that nurses and doctors are kinda busy right now.

It’s my understanding that most of the vaccinations will be done by pharmacists and pharmacy assistants as other inoculations are. I have read that you have to stay a while after the shot is administered so they can tell if you have an allergic reaction. That might be where some extra training comes in.

Let us never forget that the Obama administration left a complete pandemic playbook in the White House which has never been referenced by this administration as far as we know.

I haven’t seen any ads requesting civilians volunteer to give inoculations. Did I miss something? Cause I would be happy to do it.

@janbb is correct about having to sit after the shot. They made everyone sit for 15 minutes to be sure you didn’t have an adverse reaction.

@Dutchess_III Doctors don’t know how to give vaccines, generally. And there are certain things you need to know besides the shot—you need to go through various protocols making sure people are safe. The training is entirely appropriate.

So who who are these people they’re randomly recruiting to give the vaccine who need to be trained?

@Dutchess_III Well in my area there is an emergency medical response unit which is filled with volunteers which sends people out to disasters such as fires, and response to medical emergencies. In this response team, they are doing vaccine distribution training.

I heard they’re considering delaying people’s 2nd dose to get more people the first dose? Is that madness? Clever strategy? Or something else?

It’s clever, @gorillapaws . If you have 10,000 doses of vaccine you can have 10,000 with 50% efficacy or 5,000 with 95%. Twice as many people have been vaccinated.

Just saw on TV that the FDA is considering giving half a doses of Moderna to people between the ages of 18 and 55 years old Twice as many people vaccinated.

@gorillapaws The last I heard Fauci was saying they’re not doing that; they will give people the two doses. Maybe they are considering as TW says for younger people?

I was looking for Jeruba’s thread about notification but can’t find it to say that New Jersey has put up a website where you can pre-register for the vaccine and then will be notified when your turn comes up.

@Tropical_Willie “If you have 10,000 doses of vaccine you can have 10,000 with 50% efficacy or 5,000 with 95%.”

I don’t think anyone knows if that’s accurate. It could be that you’ve got 10,000 people with 20% efficacy instead of 5,000 of the highest priority people with 95%. Having frontline workers is vital to keeping people alive. Also giving lots of people with weaker immunity may lead to reckless behavior and make the crisis even worse. I honestly don’t know what the right solution is. It could be you’re exactly right, but I just wanted to point out that it may not be as simple as you’re making it sound.

Here’s a CNN post about the FDA’s statement that both shots are necessary:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/health/fda-coronavirus-vaccines-doses/index.html

The vaccines were tested with two doses and showed 90%+ effectiveness. Going with one dose is second guessing (emphasis on guessing) the results of careful large-scale real-world tests.

Panicking and disrupting the plan will not end well.

@gorillapaws It is a clever strategy. 1 dose will give you partial protection, so it’s better to have more people with partial protection than a smaller percentage with total protection. Also, the second shot is just delayed. People will get the second shot—just not in 3 weeks. I’m all for it, personally. (But that’s easy for me to say, I’m getting my second shot on Friday).

But it’s not an ideal strategy. The government botched the rollout (is anybody surprised?).

^^ We don’t really seem to have a government at the moment.

Three more, @Caravanfan, if you would, please:

1. Do you and your colleagues and patients, perhaps unconsciously, find it harder to see each other as people while wrapped in all the PPE, and especially with faces covered?

2. How would you respond if someone suggested that having been vaccinated would affect a caregiver’s caution in attending a patient—again, unconsciously, once they’ve gained a measure of protection?

3. What would your advice be if someone with a DNR order were headed for a ventilator, in the case where it’s pretty sure he wasn’t going to get off it again?

I received the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. The only side effect is a sore arm.

Congratulations @Jake!

@Jeruba
1. It’s a pain in the ass but we’re getting used to it
2. We assume that everybody who is vaccinated is still at risk so we don’t treat them any differently.
3. DNR is different than DNI (do not intubate). It’s a very difficult decision and it’s hard to watch someone gasp for air. If they are truly DNR/DNI, then we would give them as much oxygen as we can, put them on a BiPAP, and hope for the best. We have a guy right now who really needs to be intubated, but he’s refusing, so we’re just trying to get him by.

@Caravanfan So it’s really worth being intubated if you need it? Frankly that’s the part that scares me the most.

@janbb If it’s a choice between intubation and death? That’s a decision only you can make. It’s a difficult road.

Being barely able to breath would scare me a lot more than being intubated.

@Dutchess_III It’s hard. By the time you’re intubated you’re sick as shit. Patients who are intubated do not do well, but it’s not because they’re intubated. It’s because they’re sick.

I just got an appointment for a 1st Moderna in two weeks! So happy!

My doctor is vaccinating health care workers in the top priority group. The number of doses in a vial is variable, between 5 and 7, so sometimes at the end of the day he has leftovers which must be used immediately or thrown away. I’m now in the text alert “come and get it!” group for those last shots. I’m very happy about the prospect of getting vaccinated soon.

I called the clinic where I go for health care, now that I’ve lost my insurance, and I’m on the list. Just have to wait for the call.

I got my first one yesterday. I was really tired after it, but no other symptoms. Shoulder didn’t even hurt.

My hairdresser’s uncle died from side effects of covid. He had his inital case on Dec 21. She had to go to the funeral home in order to style his hair.The director told her not to worry because she couldn’t get covid from a dead body. Is that correct?

@SEKA I have absolutely no idea, sorry.

How long can the corona virus live on an inorganic surface?

@Brian1946 I think it depends on the type of surface. Up to three days?

Copper: up to 4 hours
Cardboard: up to 24 hours
Stainless steel: up to 48 hours
Plastic: up to 72 hours

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/nejmc2004973

@Caravanfan Did I read that correctly?

@raum

Much grass for your research!

What I’d also like to know is, how long can it survive on a paperboard (frozen food container) surface in a freezer?

How about researching that for poor ol’ Bri while he takes a nap? ;-p

Too many variables.

Paperboard is similar to cardboard. But not exactly the same.

Virus likes low temperature and low humidity. Which means it would last longer in your freezer.

I wouldn’t worry too much about frozen food though. Because you have to heat it up before consuming anyway. I’d just wash hands before and after handling. :)

Not entirely helpful. But I did
find this pretty neat calculator

I haven’t worried about viruses on food or surfaces since late last Spring since they said there wasn’t much cause for concern about surface transmission.

^^ Dumbass server problems today.

@Caravanfan Have you heard about this . . . ?

“The University of Liverpool’s Andrew Hill and others carried out a meta-analytical breakdown of 18 studies that found that ivermectin was associated with reduced inflammation and a faster elimination of Sars-Cov-2, the virus that causes Covid-19” – - – Financial Times dot Com

@Tropical_Willie The COVID field is littered with drugs like this that have shown promise but after further more rigorous study show they don’t work.

If you do have a reaction of fever or achiness after either the first or the second shots, are there any OTC pain meds that you should avoid in case they mitigate against its effectiveness?

(Getting my first shot on Friday.)

Getting my second shot on Friday. Glad to be done with this part of the virus.

Lucky girls! ^^^

@janbb ibuprofen or acetemenophen.

^^ Thanks.

acetemenophen

I think you mean acetaminophen.

Apparently doctors’ RX handwriting applies to typing, too!

@Call_Me_Jay Tylenol

I get generic 500mg acetaminophen for something like $1.80/100 at the pharmacy in the nearby hospital.

Is that common? Do hospital pharmacies usually have very low prices on generics?

Are things slowing down for you at all in your hospital @Caravanfan ?

Also, need some clarification. Are you saying it’s ok to take ibuprofen and/or acetaminophen or that those should be avoided? I had asked if there were any to be avoided so I’m not clear if those are ok.

@janbb Sorry. OK to take those meds.
Yes, things are starting to get better here.

Relevant situation report: I am working weekends in a giant Amazon facility. They have an on-site walk-in coronavirus testing station. We were asked to have a test in our first couple of days A positive test leads to 2-weeks PAID time off for quarantine. We get a text/email whenever someone on site has tested positive.

The job is kind of automaton work out of Modern Times or Metropolis, but Amazon knows that coronavirus could shut down a warehouse and they are working hard to keep everyone virus-free.

@Caravanfan, do you know anything about the effects of the vaccine on people with auto-immune conditions? My daughter has UC, is not on immunosuppressants, but I am concerned about the effect of the kind of hard-core immune response brought on by the vaccine.
She will, of course, be consulting with her doctor about this, but I wondered if you had heard about any kind of reaction in this context.

@canidmajor Shouldn’t be an issue, any more or less than other vaccines.

Yeah, but this doesn’t promote the same level of immune-stimulating reaction as other vaccines. Never mind, we’ll see what her specialist says and how we might deal with it.

I hope things are calming down in your hospital.

@canidmajor But it does. It’s just targeted to a specific spike protein.
https://xkcd.com/2425/

This are calming down at my hospital. We’ve stood down our orange alert status and back to normal.

@Caravanfan That cartoon is kind of how I’ve been thinking about the vaccine and my body. I’ve been seeing all these little T-cells and B-cells gearing up to fight if need be – and reinforcements being made. It’s pretty neat!

@Caravanfan That XKCD was the best thing I’ve seen all day. That’s still true even after my wife showed me a clip of a puppy getting angry at his own hiccups.

What life problems has xkcd not solved?

^^Word.

I realize I had worded my question to you poorly, sorry.

The good news is that the new Dune is now set for an October release, so hopefully we can all enjoy it as a theater release. Masks and distance and sanitizers, maybe, but by then, in person may be feasible!

@canidmajor: I’m seeing my neurologist on Monday 2/25 about whether or not he recommends I take the vaccine. I had Guillain Barre about 13 years ago, and as you may know, that’s an autoimmune disease. At that time, he told me no more vaccines. I want to double check with him now, because of course, if I can take it, I want to take it but I don’t want to take it if he still feels I shouldn’t.

@jca2 I was querying a friend who has a different auto-immune disease about taking the vaccine and she said that since it doesn’t contain a live vaccine, she was able to take it. But of course, your doctor would be the one to consult with.

@jca2 https://www.gbs-cidp.org/2021/01/21/covid-19-vaccines-and-the-gbscidp-community/

Thanks, @Caravanfan. I googled it too but I need to be 100% positive before taking the shot.