Couldn’t you say the same about Romney on the Republican side, more important than the Minority Leader?

Manchin is a DINO. That’s the problem with West Virginia, they’re a red state that likes to pretend to be blue.

I’m sure everyone here expects the Democrats to choose the closest Republican look alike amongst them for leadership. In fact I’m so looking forward to the prospect that I must interrupt my frenzied efforts to amass those Tesla shares.

”Senator Manchin is one of those rare Senators who can see both sides of an issue and decide on his vote in an essentially non-political way…”

Give me a fucking break. There’s only one side Manchin ever considers: what his donors want. That guy would vote to pave over every square inch of the state parks if his donors told him to.

@zenvelo If Manchin is a RISC (Republican in Sheep’s Clothing) then Georgia becomes less important than we have been led to believe. However, Democrats will be able to claim the majority, and therefore, be able to elect Schumer. That, in my opinion, would be a disaster.

And we all know by now what your opinion is worth.

Manchin is a complete hack. Acting as though he’s a principled politician is ridiculous.

@rockfan I guess “principled” is in the eye of the beholder. To me, every time Manchin takes a position opposite that of mainstream democrats, he is ‘principled’. But I see the fallacy in my thinking.

@crazyguy The fallacy is that any Republican position is “principled”. The only principle regularly espoused by the GOP in the last four years has been to disenfranchise a majority of the population.

The Republicans rather shamefully reflect the “principles” of their leader. Spineless slimeballs, and useless self serving chowderheads.

@zenvelo I am sure you have heard of ‘zero based budgeting’. I think some US policies could use ‘zero based’ thinking. How would you attack a problem if no solutions are already in place? That seemed to be Trump’s approach. Obviously it did not go over too well with the establishment that spent BILLIONS to put some measures in place.

Go to the list that I included in an answer earlier on a different thread. I will do a copy and paste, so you can have it here.

@zenvelo Here you go:
Here is a list of things that Trump touched, and therefore ‘damaged’. Biden can hopefully undo the ‘damage’. Please feel free to comment, add items or delete items.
1. Corporate Tax Rate. It was 35% when Trump took over. He cut it down to 21%. Now Biden wants to raise it to 28%.
2. China Tariffs: Before Trump, China enjoyer PNTR (Permanent Normal Trade Relations) status. That essentially means that China paid little to no import duty. And no quotas were imposed. China took full advantage of the situation. They used their “developing nation” misnomer to impose restrictions and require 50% Chinese partnership in all foreign entities. To his credit, Biden has indicated he will continue Trump’s tough policies on China. Let us see if the liberal wing of the Democratic Party lets him.
3. Illegal Immigration: Trump was greeted by tens of thousands-strong caravans on the Southern Border. So much so, that it became an emergency. He took actions much stronger than Biden could even imagine. We could disagree on the specific actions. However, the problem has been solved. undoing Trump’s actions is relatively easy. However, the consequences will not be pleasant.
4. The WALL: Biden has promised that “not one foot” of wall will be built by his administration. On this issue, perhaps all Democrats who have not thought through the interplay between the Wall, asylum, and minimum wages are united. Biden can easily keep his promise. The Senate filibuster may have to be a casualty.
5. NATO and other Alliances: We can easily go back to the way things were. Our NATO allies and others would love that as they cozy up to Mama US and suck on our kitties.
6. Iran Deal: Even Biden may have a tough time coaxing Iran back into a deal that they benefit from tremendously and we get zilch.
7. Paris Climate Accords: The US has almost met the goal that was assigned to it even though the US is not in the deal. Has any other country?

I know you are a nationalist and isolationist @crazyguy. . .So

1 ) Middle class paid for what taxes Trump drop off Corporate not by percentage but because deductions disappeared – paid higher dollar amount for same income as middle class.

2 ) Tariffs are paid for by consumer not the country that shipped it. We paid here in US dearly. My neighbors and friend are farmers and they lost 30 %% to 50 % of the business because China stopped buying their tobacco, soybeans and othe crops.

3 ) Most illegal immigrants are people that over stay there vacation or student Visas.

4) The Wall can be penetrated by a $250 Sawzall and the Drug Cartel has some of the best tunnelers in the world on their payroll. Dig under and laugh !

5 ) NATO and others don’t trust us anymore because of Trump’s harsh actions against our Allies. (I know you trust anyone in a foreign country)

6 ) Iran Is currently under no restrictions . . so they are enriching Uranium (Makes great bombs) NO RESTRICTIONS !

7 ) Paris Climate Accord – Trump didn’t want be told by other counties that he couldn’t increase pollution generating in his businesses like coal and oil companies. “Climate experts say that, if the world’s biggest historic greenhouse gas polluter (USA) won’t slash emissions, there’s little hope of meeting the Paris target of averting catastrophic global warming. ” – Inside Climate News 10/29/2020

Didn’t almost meet . . . Trump told California their pollution laws were too restrictive

Thank you @Tropical_Willie

So, @crazyguy did you see how Manchin caved when he realized the stock market had reacted to his “no more stimulus” message? And the he backpedalled on his statement.

@zenvelo Since you are riding on the tails of somebody on my personal ignore list, I’ll answer you, even though that involves indirectly answering Mr Nameless.

1. I personally got hit by the Trump tax cuts. I am probably upper middle class (who can tell any more?), and did not mind an increase in taxes.

2. Two points:

a) Yes, I agree tariffs are generally paid by the consumer; unless the exporting country chooses to pay them. Unlikely, you say? How about many businesses who choose to not raise their prices even though their costs go up?

b) The reason no President between Nixon and Trump chose this option was precisely that it may damage the economy, even though they all realized that China was taking advantage of the situation.

3. True. But the difference is far smaller than believed. So should we ignore the second biggest source of illegal immigrants?

“DHS has determined that there were 54,706,966 in-scope nonimmigrant admissions1 to the United States through air or sea POEs with expected departures occurring in FY 2018, which represents the majority of air and sea annual nonimmigrant admissions. Of this number, DHS calculated a total overstay rate of 1.22 percent, or 666,582 overstay events. In other words, 98.78 percent of the in-scope nonimmigrant entries departed the United States on time and in accordance with the terms of their admission.”

See
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/cbp_-_fiscal_year_2018_entry_exit_overstay_report.pdf
By comparison, number of illegal immigrants entering through the southern border in 2018 was 521,090. See
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

4. That my friend is an economic argument. Should we spend even more on the wall to make it resistant to a Sawzall?

5. How much do you want to pay for their ‘trust’?

6. Previously, they could do so only in their uninspected facilities!

7. Paris Climate Accord: Have you noticed that every subsequent attempt to nail down actual numbers has fallen flat on its face?

Here is a story published by one of your favorite newspapers, The Washington Post, on how woefully short of meeting their own targets most countries are. In fact the only countries meeting their targets are:
Bhutan, Costa Rica, Ethiopia, Philippines, Morocco and Gambia. One other country is on track also, primarily because of covid. That country, to my humongous surprise, is India.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/11/few-countries-are-meeting-paris-climate-goals-here-are-ones-that-are/