The vaccine/microchip in the vaccine/the proof-of-vaccination card is the “mark of the beast”.

I’m looking for “valid” religious reasons, not conspiracies or lunacy.

Those are as “valid” as any other religious reasons. Like the research being done using embryonic stem cells.

Amish folk don’t believe in medical treatment.

There is a population of people who say “I won’t question God – if god wants me to suffer from Covid then I shall do that.” Which, to me, is a reason for doing nothing ever on anything.

After all, the flip side is that god gave us the wisdom to make an effective vaccine, so why not take the attitude that vaccines are a gift from god?

Perhaps what I’m looking for more specifically is which religions might be telling people not to get the vaccine. Such as @Patty_Melt ‘s answer.

It is an interesting question. There are some religious beliefs that would prevent accepting a vaccine. You mentioned the Christian Scientists and that is one. I believe Jehovah’s Witness fall into that same category, though I might be off on that. Muslims might reject it if it was manufactured with non-halal (or haram) meat sources. Buddhists might reject it if any life forms were killed to create it.

But there is another aspect that comes into play, I believe. The EEOC, under Title VII, set many precedents that extended “religious accommodations” to include sincerely held moral or ethical beliefs, even if no specific religion was being invoked. So if someone has a sincere moral belief that allowing the vaccine into their bodies is wrong, that might be enough. An example of this might be that they morally or ethically believe that it is better to let the immune system do its job as it was designed and genetically altering it is wrong. I think the EEOC has recently tried saying that forcing vaccinations is okay even though they are still in an Emergency Use Authorization and have not undergone complete FDA licensing. But religious accommodations still come into play.

@elbanditoroso that reasoning, that just because we have the wisdom (I would say knowledge) to create the vaccines they are a gift from God, is weak. By that reasoning, nerve gas is a gift from God. Biological weapons are a gift from God. Guns are a gift from God so we ought to all rejoice in them. Vehicles that pollute the air are a gift from God. You see where that reasoning takes us, right?

@seawulf575 I was in no way endorsing that approach, I am saying that there is a population that might do so.

I’m not a believer in God; so the approach is not material to me. But I recognize that people might have other views.

So does anyone know if a person can just say “I don’t want the vaccine for religious reasons” if it is mandated or do they have to belong to a religion that forbids it? I’m trying ti figure this out.

@janbb A person can claim that they don’t want the vaccine for religious reasons. They are not required to belong to a specific religion that forbids it. The company has the option of asking for what religious reasons apply, but it has to be done in a very delicate way. If presented wrong, you put yourself on the wrong side of a discrimination lawsuit. For example, you can’t ask what religion the person is, what church they attend, none of that. And if the person tells you something that sounds like “My body is a temple to God. He made it perfectly and it is against His will to let man genetically alter it.”, then you as an employer have little grounds to stand on.

There might still be ways to enforce mandatory vaccinations, but it would make the company show they could not grant a reasonable accommodation which, in this case, is unlikely.

It varies state to state, I understand.
Most religious exemptions boil down to personal choice, interestingly no religious group or sect is against vaccinations officially.
It doesn’t appear to be a legitimate use of the definition (to the courts) except ‘personal beliefs’.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/09/01/religious-exemptions-covid-19-mandates/

@KNOWITALL @seawulf575 Thanks. That was the kind of information I was looking for.

IMO, using religion as a reason is a good “catch-all” excuse for not taking the vaccine.

Mark of the beast.

Vaccine researched with fetal cells.

Vaccine grown in fetal cells.

Vaccine has fetal cells.

Mostly, it’s just used as an excuse that the US tends to allow for, there doesn’t need to be any logic.

Just like a company might have policy to always let people out of work on their religious holidays, the US government gives exceptions for religious beliefs and you don’t need to really prove anything.

Although, in extreme cases (life and death) law trumps religion. Anything health related could easily fall in this category. The courts do rule against parents who refuse medical treatment for their children, and the government could feasibly say no religious exceptions for a vaccine.

I know two specific examples, both Christian-based.

The first is from an intelligent anti-Trump Catholic I know, who has faith and/or an intuitive sense of knowing and trust that their body will deal with Covid ok by itself if they do catch it, and while they understand and agree with ideas about concerns for others, they intuitively feel it is the right thing for them to do to just be careful and avoid the vaccine. There may be other details of the thinking which they haven’t shared with me.

I do respect their choice and their thinking because I respect their intelligence and the earnestness of their personal spiritual thoughts and feelings, and because I don’t think it is being influenced by perverse political ideology. Also because, as it impacts one person’s behavior, who is also being careful and considerate of others, and so I don’t see it as actually dangerous except possibly to them, and I think people should/must/do have the right to endanger themselves.

The other example came from a few unsolicited wacko right-wing bad-Christian emails, which spout the ridiculous idea that the virus somehow contains “the mark of The Beast” and offers numerological connections to 666 and the date one of the viruses was announced, or something. Religious incitement madness at its worst, basically.

As already pointed out here, certain US state and federal laws allow individuals to claim exeption from a range of public policies and regulations based on moral, philosophical, or relgious beliefs. The general basis for these exemptions is found in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964; which provides that individuals have the right to be free from discrimination on the basis of religion.

For some general info on what groups are known to refuse vaccinations for religious reasons – and which faiths do not claim an exemption – look here :

VeryWellFamily.com -

https://www.verywellfamily.com/religious-exemptions-to-vaccines-2633702

The VWF site states that their info is provided for educational purposes only, and not offered as medical or legal advice. According to their review, religious groups that refuse immunization on grounds of belief include:
• Churches that rely on faith healing including small Christian churches such as Church of the First Born, End Time Ministries, Faith Assembly, Faith Tabernacle, and First Century Gospel Church.

• The First Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Scientist) believes in healing through prayer and that vaccines aren’t necessary.

Although there are few religions with an absolute objection to vaccines, there are many more groups within other religions who are opposed to getting their kids and themselves vaccinated, which helps explain some of the outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases that have occurred recently.

These religious groups include:

• Some Amish

• Some Dutch Reformed churches

• Some Muslim fundamentalists

There is no absolute objection to vaccines within these faith traditions, though. Even among the Dutch Orthodox Protestants, there is a subset who describe vaccines as “a gift from God.”

Other faiths have formally declared that immunizations are not against their beliefs -
• Catholics: The Catholic Church is clearly pro-vaccine. Even for the vaccines that some parents question, especially those for hepatitis A, rubella, and varicella, which are cultured in cells that were originally derived from aborted fetuses, the Church teaches that “if no safe, effective alternative vaccines exist, it is lawful to use these vaccines if danger to the health of children exists or to the health of the population as a whole.”

• Jehovah’s Witnesses: Although Jehovah’s Witnesses had a past opposition to vaccines, in 1952 they stated that vaccination “does not appear to us to be in violation of the everlasting covenant made with Noah, as set down in Genesis 9:4, nor contrary to God’s related commandment at Leviticus 17:10–14.”

• Jews: Confusion still exists among some people over the fact that since some vaccines contain components with porcine (pig) and gelatin components, then it must be against Jewish dietary laws for their members to be vaccinated. However, the use of vaccines is “judged based on concepts of medical law contained in halachic codes” and is therefore encouraged.

• Muslims: Except for areas where polio is still endemic, several imams and other Islamic leaders issued clear statements and fatwas describing how immunization is consistent with Islamic principles.

• Hindus: None of the four major branches of Hinduism are opposed to vaccines and countries that are majority Hindu, including Nepal and India, have high vaccination rates.

@Zaku The Pope is pro-vaccination. I don’t see how a Catholic can legitimately use religion as an excuse. I have heard there are some priests against the vaccine, but how does their word matter more than the actual official stance of the church?

I know it doesn’t really matter, individuals can pick and choose whatever they want for the sake of religious belief.

@JLoon Thanks. Great info!

@Zaku I, too, have heard the “Mark of the Beast” claim. All I can say is that those people need to go back and re-read Revelations. I think they are picking out the piece that says everyone will have to have the mark or they won’t be able to buy or sell things. To be fair, that DOES sound sort of like what they are trying to do with those that don’t get the vaccine. But Revelations is specific that people will have a mark either on their right hand or their forehead identifying them as being part of the gang. The last time I checked, they are not marking the hands or foreheads of people as they get the vaccines.

Really good information @JLoon.

@JLoon needs to change her name to Encyclopedia Britannica! What a wonderful addition to our pool.

@janbb, @chyna, @Dutchess_III, and all -

Thanks!

Personally, I had some objections to my COVID shot when they wouldn’t give it to me in the butt. Just couldn’t convince them it had anything to do with religion… ;p

LOL!

My beliefs are so misunderstood…
https://24.media.tumblr.com/516f3a74deabd8c444471f11773c9852/tumblr_mxo9mcMUxJ1s7ddlao1_1280.gif

@JLeslie As I think I understand them, because this person sees it as a personal decision about their own action. I don’t think they oppose the vaccine being used for others.

… upon reflection, them being Catholic may not be directly related to their reasons, which may be more just intuition and personal (so not religious per se) spirituality.

I have a friend who won’t get any vaccines because he feels it interferes with gods plans

Any religion who endorses not taking a vaccine is interested in killing its members and everybody around them. There should be zero religious exemption.

Wow! While I searched, this thread went viral!
see what I did there?

So this is the most clearly defined Catholic stance I could find on it.

I have a friend who thinks that the idea of vaccinations is much more likely to cause harm, or “injury” as she and her like minded friends refer to side effects, than the disease or illness itself, so she and her family have chosen not to get vaccinated.

They are religious, and have a strong belief and faith in “God” which is part of every decision that they make, including their decision not to get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, she is heavily promoting the use of Ivermectin which she claims that Dr. Pierre Kory has “proven” to work to cure, treat, and prevent Covid, and is actively treating “many patients” that you “won’t hear about” because the government and mainstream medical community is “censoring.”

This article talks about the flawed science regarding Ivermectin:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/01/ivermectin-covid-treatment/

@Kardamom Your friend doesn’t identify as a particular religion does she? Maybe Christian, but not a particular sect or denomination, is that right? They seem to be the worst regarding vaccine hesitancy and believing total bullshit about so many things.

And here’s an article from today’s New York Times about religious exemptions from Covid vaccination. In case it doesn’t open, it says that there is no Christian denomination whose tenets forbid vaccination, including Christian Scientists who permit it for the good of the community:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/06/opinion/religious-exemptions-vaccine-mandates.html

@JLeslie The irony for me, is that Jesus was a known, revered healer. Doesn’t make much sense to me, biblically or otherwise.

@JLeslie That’s a pretty broad brush you are painting with. The 10 or so people I know personally that don’t want to be vaccinated are not religious at all.
Do you have facts to back that up about religious people “being the worst regarding vaccine hesitancy and believeing total bullshit”?

@chyna, that’s a very good point. Every Christian and Jewish person with whom I have discussed this (not all of them Dems) have been vaxxed. Every single one. I’m quite sure it is less about religious affiliation and more about geography and extreme political affiliation.

@chyna Not sure what you are talking about. Of course there are people who are not religious who aren’t getting the shot just like there are many very religious people who are getting it.

I wrote above the ones I know claiming religious reasons are the ones not affiliated with a specific sect. My lunatic QAnon friend is a Libertarian born again Christian who isn’t much for organized religion she describes herself as very spiritual, but she did try to convert me to accept Jesus one time. She obsesses about God and covid being the work of socialists and compulsively posts not to wear a mask and not to get a vaccine. I see more than her on Facebook posting that sort of thing.

Edit: The people who are not religious who are refusing to get vaccinated aren’t doing it on religious grounds. They have other reasons. We weren’t talking about that on this Q.

@canidmajor If you don’t see a Bible Belt connection for vaccine hesitancy then I really don’t know what map you are looking at. Living in the Bible Belt even the Jews had higher stats on being more religious, it’s not just Christians, and not just Protestants. That doesn’t mean there aren’t atheists out there refusing the vaccine, of course there are.

Oh, @JLeslie, do actually read what I wrote before you argue with me. Or do I need to define the word ”geography” for you?

Oh, and BTW, I was remarking on @chyna’s point, which is why I addressed my remark to her.

@canidmajor Chyna was commenting on what I wrote. How does your comment not include me in that case? Doesn’t matter. No need to be obnoxious like I don’t know what geography means. The point about the geography is the type of religiousity in those regions of the country.

It has nothing to do with what the religious leaders are actually saying or not, other jellies were very good at linking the official stance on vaccines by the major US religions, and it’s plain to see the religions are pro-vaccine. Rather it is about what people are hearing mostly through social media and peers, because they are targeted by anti-vaccine type groups that tie religious reasons in with their rhetoric to sway these people.

Luckily, people affiliated with certain religions do hear that their denomination approves of and reinforces vaccination, so that can help counter the other garbage they hear. If they are unaffiliated with a specific religion or their pastor is simply silent on it, then they might be more likely to get sucked in by misinformation.

Hard for you to fathom, I know, @JLeslie, but I really was only replying to @chyna, however much you might want to think it was about you. Really.

Here is an example from my area. This person had Covid, does not have the vaccine, nor does his immediate family.
I also have posts from other friends and groups (off grid, hippie types) on social media who have zero religious leanings, posting much the same thing.

“Oh COVID…
Sensitive topic, I know. But after a couple conversations over the last two days, I feel like sharing a thought. But a few other things first.
One: I’ve had COVID recently. I was blessed to have a mild case. I know it’s “real”. I know it’s not just a conspiracy, so don’t peg me as one of “those people”.
I had the monoclonal antibody infusion 3 days after symptom onset in case you are curious.
Two: I know several people who have died from the “Rona”. Good people that I’ve been good friends with.
I hate that they were taken by this pandemic.
Three: I have full respect for those who feel passionate on all sides of the vaccine/masking/mandates controversy. If you want to support all or none of those, go for it. I wish you well… and wellness!
The point of this?
I am determined, as I have been from the beginning, to not live my life as a victim of fear. It does not make me a science denier. It does not make me a hater. It does not make me a bad community member.
I’m just simply not going to live there. This life is temporary. If we are blessed to have 85+ years, wonderful. It may seem easy for me to say. I haven’t lost a wife, a sibling, a child to COVID.
But I refuse to let this disease control my thoughts, my behavior, my life. Not going to do it.
God has blessed us with some limited knowledge of His truths. Eternity is waiting for all of us. He tells us many things about fear. Fear is one of the topics that is most prominent in Scripture. Most of the time, it’s either “Fear not”, “Fear God” (reverence), or how fear has no hold on believers.
This is an encouragement, not a rant. I’m not critical of those who are really afraid. I get it, the entire world and the one who currently rules it wants us to fear disease and death.
Please consider the power available to you, especially to those who follow Christ, to choose fearlessness.
It’s very freeing. It’s a much more joyful place to be. It’s the way to live life in a way that our spiritual enemy hates.”

Non-religious hippie anti-vaxxer (calling mandatory vaccines tyranny, etc…)
⚠️“They will have to prove they have a place to isolate during their quarantine period and must also be fully vaccinated.
Those who are approved will have to download the South Australian Government home quarantine app, which uses geo-location and facial recognition software to track those in quarantine.
The app will contact people at random asking them to provide proof of their location within 15 minutes. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Mr Marshall said.
If a person cannot successfully verify their location or identity when requested, SA Health will notify SA Police who will conduct an in-person check on the person in quarantine.
People will still be required to quarantine for 14 days.
The Premier said people were also able to put in daily observations, which could trigger a visit from SA Health.”‼️this not okay ‼️‼️‼️

@KNOWITALL Back 30 years ago it was the hippie, tree hugging type, health oriented, who I was most aware of regarding anti-vax. I’m not sure if they actually dominated that point-of-view at the time, but that was my impression. Now, it’s like it has all been married together for a lot of people. I see very religious people talking up vitamins, exercise, Whole Foods, and God.

30 years ago was when I had my babies. I never heard a single word against them being vaccinated. Not one word.

@Dutchess_III One of my close girlfriends waited to vaccinate her kids. She delayed and spaced the vaccines very far apart. Possibly, she didn’t do some of the recommended ones. I know she never vaccinated them for chicken pox. She was going to give in and do that one too if they hadn’t caught chicken pox by a certain age. Both kids eventually caught it. She was relieved.

Her girls were born in the mid to late 90’s.

It was in the 90’s that the MMR-autism scare started.

@JLeslie The biggest issue I see here is that the medical community is so divided.

^ The medical community is divided on what?

@chyna Getting the vaccine. Many across the US have quit their jobs if the employer made it mandatory. That’s why many secular people are using the religion loophole, so they don’t lose their jobs.

I have heard of nurses quitting because they’re idiots. You honestly don’t have to be that smart to be a nurse.
When you say “Medical community” I think of researchers and doctors. I don’t think there is any dispute between them.

@Dutchess Either way, people listen to them.

But that doesn’t make the medical community divided.
Any nurse who won’t accept the vacination needs a new job.

@Dutchess_III: Here in part of NYC, there are hospitals that are at risk of losing all of their nurses because the nurses are all threatening to resign.

Why @jca2?

Because they don’t want to be forced to have to take the vaccine, @Dutchess_III.

Regarding those nurses, it sounds to me like there’s more going on than you get at first glance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/22/nyregion/staten-island-covid-vaccine-workers.html

Nurses, medical technicians, infection control officers and others, because they’re opposed to being forced to get the vaccine.

@jca2 Are they opposed to the vaccine or just opposed to being forced to get it.
If they are opposed to being forced to get it, that really surprises me because all medical and non medical personnel working in the hospital have always had to get a flu shot. I don’t recall any pushback from that shot.

People not wanting this shot are not necessarily anti vaxers. Most of us simply don’t believe this particular jab is proven safe or effective. I’m not against other people getting it. I just don’t think it should mandated.

Catholics are against it because aborted babies are used in the Johnson and Johnson jab, and the others used animals for testing.
I have seen accounts of people believing it is the mark of lucifer.

@chyna: The area that the hospital is in that the NY Times article covers is a Republican area with a lot of NYPD, NYFD. The nurses and medical staff are opposed to the vaccine as far as it’s a hoax, Bill Gates, etc., and they are opposed to being forced to have to get it.

@Patty_Melt The Catholic Church is officially ok with vaccines that use fetal tissue, but anyway the mRNA is available so it doesn’t matter, there is a choice. Moreover, the Catholic Church is consistent with promoting protecting your own health and the health of others. I think it was Pope Benedict who first said the vaccines made with fetal cells are ok, so this is nothing new.

I agree people not wanting to take THIS shot aren’t necessarily anti-vaxxers, but whether they know it or not they are being manipulated by anti-vaxxers and terrorists who want to divide the country and by countries who want to leave the US more vulnerable. It might sound paranoid, but It’s actually a fact. They trace memes and Facebook posts back to foreign and domestic terrorist groups and foreign countries.

Waiting to see if people are ok after the shot made sense in my opinion the first few months, but now? It’s been 16–17 months of testing. How long will people use that excuse? 5 years? 10 years?

Well there will be others ready to take their place, so leave already.

I have a hard time believing that ALL their nurses are idiots.

@Dutchess_III: In any job it takes time to train new people. The article talks about entire departments ready to quit.

We need to ask Caravanfan if they’re expecting a mass exodus for this reason at his hospital.
It sounds like an attention grabbing, exaggerated headline to me.
My Dad’s wife was a nurse and she was ready to do battle with anyone who refused to get vaccinated.

@Dutchess_III: It’s happening in very Republican areas, as I stated above.

Edit to add: If you google it, it’s occurring in other parts of the country, too.

@Dutchess_III I sent him an article from my area on this subject and he said those nurses against vaccines should find a new career.
My bigger concern is the mistrust those people are bringing to the general public.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-26/covid-vaccine-mandates-drive-some-nurses-to-leave-america-s-hospitals

^^^ Mind boggling.

This NY hospital was forced to stop delivering babies because of the low staff vaccination rate:

https://www.aol.com/news/york-hospital-pause-delivering-babies-154749722.html

@jca2 It’s interesting that it’s mass resignation rather than a strike or something similar to a strike assuming they aren’t unionized.

I hope they never work in healthcare again.

@chyna I just don’t understand the mindset. If they work in healthcare and don’t trust the vaccine, how is the general population supposed to receive the message that puts out?

We are a fairly low-vaxxed state at 46% and watching them protest almost daily outside the hospitals. It worries me.

It worries me too. My state is in the top 5 with new Covid cases and it’s soaring every day. Our governor is on TV daily begging people to get vaccinated. And he has the most country accent that makes it kind of cute.
Respiratory therapists and nurses here are objecting to taking it. I don’t get it.

@chyna In my area, this is what the paper said: The purported message of these protests is to take a stand against employers requiring vaccinations and mandating personal medical decisions for their employees.

Many of the signs at the protest were sporting misinformation, too. I suppose nurses are like anyone else, but you’d think working in healthcare, someone would give them the correct information. Very odd.

@JLeslie: I guess a benefit of resignation rather than strike is that with resignation, they can immediately get a job elsewhere. With a strike, they’re still employed, have to spend time on the line striking and can’t start earning income at a new place. Just a guess as to why they might rather resign, even if they’re in a union.

This is insane. When I renewed my teaching license I had to provide proof of vaccinations. I also had to.get a booster shot for something. ALL teachers do. Maybe teachers are smarter than nurses.
They’re idiots. And I agree with Chyna. I hope they never get employment in health care again.

Unvaccinated teachers and other school staff members are dying. All of this varies by state. Here’s a Florida article. There were deaths in Tennessee too. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/09/08/miam-s08.html

@jca2 True. The Southern states especially don’t have unions.

Just a guess (just guessing, and this doesn’t mean that I agree with this theory), @Dutchess_III, that once you’re employed, the rules are different than for people seeking employment. In other words, it might be difficult to fire people since they’re already employed, vs. when you were seeking employment as a teacher, they could require certain things as a condition of being hired. Just guessing, and if I’m incorrect about my guess for your employment I’m apologizing in advance.

I was seeking employment. They would not have even considered me if I didn’t have my vaccinations up to date.

@Dutchess_III: OK my theory was incorrect.

Maybe in NYS it’s harder to fire people once they’re hired. I’m not sure.

If a teacher has tenure it’s damn near impossible to fire them. Really unfortunate in some cases.

@Dutchess_III: I know. I was thinking about the nurses.

Many in the military are refusing as well, it’s not just nurses.

Military doesn’t tend to sick, vulnerable people.

From what I have read, they are forced to get all sorts of vaccinations, but it is this one, during a pandemic, that they are committing insubordination over.
Hilarious.

Military is going to have to soon. Navy and Air Force are already 70% vaccinated at least one dose if I remember it correctly. Navy ships are probably 100%, or very close to it. People deployed to foreign countries probably are more likely vaccinated if I had to guess. It’s the Army lagging way behind the other armed forces.

Parts of the military certainly do tend to the sick and they often are in extremely close quarters and can be in situation with very little access to immediate high level healthcare. Right now, we may not have many solders, airmen, and sailors in war situations, but they need to always be at the ready.

Our military helped vaccinate people around the country. Our military is utilized in many ways.

I haven’t read this yet but it is related to the new vaccine mandate at work:

https://www.aol.com/finance/ready-workplace-vaccination-wars-214316718.html

@JLeslie I specifically read Marine Corp said they will not forcibly vaccinate their people. Should be interesting.

@KNOWITALL I found this article and it mentions the Marines have lower covid vaccination rates than others branches. I wasn’t aware of that. This article indicates all active will have to roll up their sleeve eventually. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-being-mandated-for-the-military

The article is a few weeks old, the information might have changed again. You might be more up to date.