The even deeper problem with today’s (Big Tech) society is that this article is behind a pay wall (for me).

The big problem is the the liberal media that covered up this story with lies.

I think that the real travesty is that the right wing is still relitigating the 2000 election (which was settled long ago) on the basis of this laptop.

That’s a far worse sign of the decline of American society – the inability to accept the will of the people in a fair and honest election (and that was proveen 60+ times) than any sort of coulda/woulda/shoulda type of attack.

The scandal here is that the right wing is still playing the ‘we won in 2020’ canard…

Two things that I love about the survey: States surveyed were Republican states (or at least the majority were, I didn’t research each state), and a little more than 25% of those surveyed voted for Biden, so obivously they didn’t survey 50/50 Biden/Trump supporters, they only surveyed 25% Biden supporters.

I think the BIGGEST problem is that if someone takes their computer in to get fixed, you are guaranteed that some punk-ass techs will be going through your computer reading your stuff, knowing which sites you go to, and THEN reports it to a newspaper.

I also like (and I use the word “like” sarcastically) that MRC, who conducted the poll, is led by t his guy, a Conservative. If you’re going to quote a poll or survey, it helps when the poll or survey is conducted by someone relatively neutral (for example, Quinnipiac University):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

The answer is Yes it does show a deeper problem and censorship is alive and well. This is not the first time it’s happened and hopefully we’ll get through this. McCarthyism in the fifties was much the same. People lost jobs, careers, and were even jailed from false or misleading stories. Hopefully, we’ll make it through this one as well but not without a lot of carnage and destroyed careers. It’s not just suppression of of stories but the manufacturing of stories as well. Once you get to the point that no one can be trusted to relate truth, how do you know what’s real. We’re entering a phase of propaganda that is very similar to what is happening in Russia. If you don’t believe the popular version of events, you simply disappear.

There’s a story I heard about Putin that is very close to what we have going on here.

Vladimir Putin, wanting to get on the good side of voters, goes to visit a school in Moscow to have a chat with the kids.

He talks to them about how Russia is a powerful nation and how he wants the best for the people.

At the end of the talk, there is some time for questions.

Little Sasha puts her hand up and says “I have two questions:

Why did the Russians take Crimea? And why are we sending troops to Ukraine?”

Putin says “Good questions…” But just as he is about to answer, the bell goes, and the kids go for lunch.

When they come back, they sit back down and there is room for some more questions so another girl, Misha, puts her hand up and says, “I have four questions.

My Questions are:

Why did the Russians invade Crimea?

Why are we sending troops to Ukraine?

Why did the bell go 20 minutes early for lunch?

And where is Sasha?”

Sound familiar?

Me thinks Misha and Sasha are boys.

I agree that there’s a problem with societal perceptions in the country. And it’s in the fact of the 10% in that poll who would assume whatever impropriety on the part of Biden’s kid sufficient to counterbalance the enormity of Trump’s liabilities.

There is some question to the “chain of evidence” because Mac Issac contacted Rudy Giuliani’s lawyer and Rudy is registered as an agent for a foreign government. He also worked with a known Russian agent https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/09/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-worked-with-an-active-russian-agent-to-discredit-joe-biden/

Yes. The same thing happened with the Wuhan lab leak theory. Social media censored any mention of it then admitted a year later that it was possible. This is what happens when we let big tech and the media define truth.

What information did the laptop contain, and of what relevance is it? How does it compare to the phone call between Trump and Zelensky where Trump said that delivery of missiles was contingent on digging up dirt on Hunter Biden, leading to Trump’s first impeachment?

The deep problem in society is how difficulty it can be to give proper weight to news stories. A feather can seem as significant as an artillery piece and can outweigh it in some people’s minds.

@rebbel Sorry. I tried going to the horse’s mouth. But there are tons of reports on it now, all giving interpretations of the NYT article. But from what I can tell, the out-takes aren’t manufactured or made up. But it certainly wasn’t my intention to try getting people to pay for NYT access.

@elbanditoroso I’m assuming you mean the 2020 election, not the 2000 election. But interesting comment. Without trying to undo the election, consider for a moment what actually happened. Now, take a moment and ask if the same would have happened if it had been Trump Jr.‘s laptop. If Trump had said it was Russian disinformation, do you believe for a second that the media would have parroted that statement? Would people on social media have their accounts blocked and terminated for reporting on it? THAT is the problem I am addressing. The information on the laptop would have been crippling to a politician. It points to long term corruption and influence peddling. But the American people were not allowed to know that. They were punished if they dared to suggest it. Does that behavior really sound like what the US of A should be? This isn’t about trying to undo an election. It IS about trying to stop rot in society that is manipulating everything we see and say.

@jca2 so is it your stance that if the media had investigated this and pushed for resolution of serious corruption that your support for Biden wouldn’t have been shaken? Do you believe that tall Biden voters are that staunch? If so, that points to another deep problem within society. That they support corruption.

@HP But the information on the laptop isn’t pointing towards improprieties just by Hunter. He implicates Joe in some of the e-mails as well. So your stance is that it really doesn’t matter what someone does, as long as it isn’t Trump?

@seawulf575 I don’t blame you, of course.
I blame the New York Times.

@Tropical_Willie Thank you for making my point. The article you cited is from the timeframe where the media was declaring the whole thing fake and Russian disinformation. But the FBI agrees there is corruption there. Hunter has been under investigation since before the election and this laptop has provided some of the proof. Hunter’s business partners have confirmed the veracity of the e-mails. It just took until now for the NYT to finally agree with the NY Post…that it is a big story. And because of the cover-up that went on, people still believe the lies.

@LostInParadise The laptop contained all sorts of information pointing to Hunter being a foreign agent, to him using his relationship with Joe as a way to gain influence and sweet jobs for which he was not qualified, to him sharing a bank account with Joe to help funnel funds to him, and possibly to Joe making decisions for our country based on what would best benefit him and Hunter. That is FAR more damning than the made up impeachment stuff. The impeachment of Trump was not for any actual crimes, it was based on hearsay and opinion of witnesses, most of whom were not there, had never met Trump, knew nothing of anything. It took a story that was completely made up and tried turning it into something that sounded nefarious. When they say that he asked Zelenskyy 8 times to investigate Joe Biden, but the phone transcript shows he only mentioned “Biden” twice, once in relationship to Hunter, it automatically puts a doubt on the “whistleblower”. AND, one of the big things the Dems tried claiming was that Trump pushed for a quid pro quo, which never happened. However Biden bragged that he had indeed pushed for a quid pro quo, threatening to withhold aid to Ukraine if they didn’t fire their Attorney General within 6 hours because the AG was investigating Burisma…the company that hired Hunter.

But all this points again to the rot in our society. Someone on the left makes an unfounded claim against a political rival and the media jumps on the story without ever fact checking and then repeats lies over and over to support claim. But when a newspaper comes out with an article about a politician on the left that is damaging, the same media jumps on board to censor anyone and everyone that dares to talk about it. Until it is way too late to make a difference, really. It is blatant manipulation and censorship being played out on a grand scale. This question is about that. That is the sort of thing I would expect in Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Russia, or even modern day N Korea or China.

Yet reading the NYTimes article, there is no damning evidence, but rather awareness on Hunter’s part of the laws regarding agents of foreign powers; indeed, a respect for the law that was found wanting in the case of many Trump aides that were charged with violations of FARA.

So @seawulf575 has extrapolated the mention of Hunter Biden’s laptop as proof of lawbreaking, when in fact such “proof” has not yet resulted in anything more than a tax case.

The question regarding the “deeper problem” is people like @seawulf575 conjuring up conspiracies and shenanigans that have little real substance to them, and thinking that his enemies on the left are covering up the truth.

No. It is a story of corruption of a sitting president and his family.

Again with the leftwing bias of the news. As if the wart on Biden’s kid is equivalent to Trump’s malady—the man is by comparison crawling with sores. There’s virtually no visible skin to the man’s persona that remains uninfected. To imply that the idiot’s spectacular and endless defects are manufactured by a leftist press enslaved by radical politicians is beyond dishonest.

@SnipSnip Yes, it is a story of corruption of a sitting president and his family. But it is a story that was broken a year and a half ago, but which Americans were purposely told it was fake and some were punished if they didn’t believe that it was fake. THAT is the issue. A corrupt politician should be news every day of the week. When it is someone vying for the top office in our country, it ought to be enormously covered. Not used as a method of censoring opposing voices.

@zenvelo so you agree the laptop was Hunter’s? Good to know. A year ago, a statement like that on Twitter would have gotten you suspended. THAT is the point of the question.

No. The deeper problem with society is the example of the right wing perseveration on Hunter Biden’s laptop, when the reality is that the right wing media pundits are Russian assets and spouting Russian propaganda.

@seawulf575 How were American’s punished if they didn’t believe it was fake? And which Americans were punished?

@chyna There were people whose social media accounts were frozen or canceled for spreading “fake news”. Imagine if you used your social media account for your business and it got canceled for something like that? Many Americans were disparaged for believing the “conspiracy theory”. They were maligned for spreading Russian disinformation. They were ridiculed for being so stupid as to believe that crap. And those that “believed it” were actively performing all these disparaging things, so they were guilty, in the long run, of doing exactly what they were accusing others of. It was a very divisive move by the media and the whole country felt it. Just like it has been for so many other items like this one.

@Caravanfan your sources?

Watabout . . .

Manafort convicted and Trump let him off with Presidential Pardon ! “His on my side ”

Stone convicted and Trump let him off with Presidential Pardon ! “His on my side ”

Are right wingers afraid Biden might do the same with Hunter o o o o OH no; the prosecutor is a Trump employee ( appointee) does not think there is enough evidence.

@Tropical_Willie And did the media come down on Trump for those things? Of course they did. Where was the outrage about the initial story on Biden? It was excuses and cover for Biden, not actual reporting. The point is not that Biden or his family did something wrong, it is that the media is manipulating the public in a severely biased way. But really, you could take just about any political story, not the laptop story, to see the same thing. THAT is the point of the question. There is no outrage at the media for lying for a year and a half. There is no outrage for the division they sowed in our society. There is no outrage at any of it. That is the deeper issue with out country.

Right wing media manipulates things. Do you complain when Breitbart writes one-sided stories, or Fox News? Do you consider that maybe the Conservative owner of the company that did the survey/poll that you linked maybe manipulated the results? No, you offer the poll as gospel without consiering that people will see through your supposed “evidence.”

@jca2 Absolutely the right wing media has their bias. And no, they shouldn’t be excused. The issue is the same. But here’s a thought for you. You don’t like the poll I cited. That is fair…you have every right to disagree with it. But you don’t see every right wing outlet touting it. You don’t see it on the evening news 24/7 for a year and a half. You don’t see Facebook or Twitter or any of the other idiot social media outlets canceling people if they voice an opinion about that poll similar to the one you just voiced. Imagine for a moment if your account here on Fluther got canceled because you just made that statement. Would that seem right to you?

The point behind the question is just that. What you see is people ridiculed, bullied, threatened, and punished for daring to question something that doesn’t match what the media wants you to believe. That is third-world country behavior. Might want to consider that as you strive to defend it.

@seawulf575: I don’t know enough about whether or not “You don’t see Facebook or Twitter or any of the other idiot social media outlets canceling people if they voice an opinion about that poll similar to the one you just voiced”.or if people were actually bullied, threatened, punished for daring to question something” as you reference. I’m not saying it didn’t happen but if I don’t read firsthand info, as opposed to someone stating it occurred (on Fluther, as you did), I can’t speculate. If you provided links proving what you’re saying, it might be helpful.

@seawulf575 , Do you have a link that points to the information on the laptop?

@LostInParadise: Hopefully whatever @seawulf575 provides also specifies that the laptop was in Rudy Giuliani’s hands (literally) before being turned in.

@LostInParadise Do a search (on something other than Google) and you’ll find plenty. The original NY Post article:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/

gives quite a bit. But there is always more.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/03/17/nyt-the-ny-post-scoop-on-hunters-laptop-legit-n456030 This one gives excerpts from the NYT article.

I recommend doing your own search so you don’t have to take my word for it.

@jca2 Actually, I believe the NY Post article does specify that. The repair shop gave the laptop to Giulliani after they called the FBI and the FBI didn’t do anything. What a surprise. But let me ask, since it seems to be your intent to cast doubt, is it your conspiracy theory that Rudy Giulliani created e-mails, slipped them into the cache on the computer, had Hunter’s business partners and the Swedish government all attest to how true they are? Just want to fully understand what your statement is really trying to say.

As for Facebook and Twitter taking action, let me point out that Twitter canceled the NY Post’s account when they first broke the story. And then there is this:

https://nypost.com/2022/03/12/hunter-bidens-laptop-repairman-harassed-nearly-bankrupt/

that shows clearly how the efforts by the media to control what people know has played out to the detriment of the guy that tried doing the right thing.

Oh okay == = => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

New York Post – - – - – - – leaning right not always truthful!

NY Post – owned by the same people who own Fox News. Big surprise.

@seawulf575 I’m in no way speaking for @jca2, but perhaps she was pointing out the chain of custody was severely compromised by giving it to Giuliani, a known opponent of Biden.

@Tropical_Willie “the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.”

This question has received so many hilarious answers, thank you @seawulf575, I needed a good laugh. The level of denial here would be impressive if it weren’t so sad, its like watching people cling to belief that the earth is flat.

@chyna I understand that, but you are missing the point. All the data has been verified through several different means. The chain of custody is meaningless. The data is confirmed which means that the information is good. It doesn’t matter if the Wicked Witch of the West handled it. Again, as I asked @jca2 Is it your conspiracy theory that Rudy Giulliani took a laptop, implanted e-mails into the cache that could be verified by Hunter’s business partners and the Swedish government? It’s starting to get to be really convoluted to claim it isn’t real or is somehow a plant from Trump. And all of the efforts show that my original question is indeed valid…there is a deeper problem in the country.

@Tropical_Willie and @elbanditoroso So who owns the NYT? And are they right leaning? Are they owned by Fox news? It was the NYT that admitted the story was true. And your efforts to try pointing at the NY Post just confirms what I was asking. There is no reason at all to besmirch the NY Post. They broke the TRUE story a year and a half ago. It was all the “reputable” (to you) outlets that said it was fake news, that it was Russian disinformation, that it was right wing conspiracy theories, that it was Trump making stuff up and dozens of other excuses to avoid actually looking at the evidence. And in the meantime, Biden was spared a HUGE scandal that would likely have cost him a presidency. So the deeper problem we have is that the media lies, the people believe it blindly and try supporting it even after it has been proven wrong, and that the media has changed the course of the country based on lies. And no one wants to hold them accountable.

@seawulf575: @chyna is stating exactly what I was thinking. Just to clarify, I’m sure that Rudy Giuliani himself is in no way knowledgeable enough from a technical standpoint to insert anything into any computer. He probably has trouble sending an email. I mean, as @chyna correctly is guessing, that the chain of custody is obviously fucked up. Who knows who had their hands on the lalptop, then “woops, look, there are some fucked up things in it!” This is why when a crime is committed and the detectives come to collect evidence, the chain of custody is so extremely important and can be scrutinized in Court. If the evidence is not collected accurately, labeled and stored accurately and carefully, and is possibly tampered with, then it’s not very helpful to the legal proceedings.

And add to this that the NY Post is notoriously right leaning. Find a site that discusses the laptop that is not right leaning or left leaning, and then it’s something to consider. So knock out the NY Post, the NY Times (so you can’t dispute it), Breitbart, Fox, etc. and maybe find MSNBC or something in the middle.

@cheebdragon Owned by Fright winger Rupert Murdoch “not anybody can edit !!!”

The owner and controller NY POST is a FRIGHT WINGER ! Not known for telling the truth and bashing anybody the left of “Moscow MItch” ! Also owns Faux News with a 65% of telling the truth.

Rupert Murdoch still thinks Trump won by H U U U G E landslide.

Even were we to accept your premise that the press lies and no one wants to hold journalism accountable, that conclusion ignores the stark fact that both Trump and the New York Post suffer from the same dilemma. They are both renowned and distinguished for habitual and deliberate lying. It’s that simple. No one bothers to waste time believing either of them, and it has nothing to do with liberal bias or Trump dementia. Both of them have the reputation they have earned and more than deserve.

@jca2 So it IS your conspiracy theory that all the negatives about Hunter and Joe were somehow planted. Good to know. You have to ignore all the solid evidence to get to that supposition, but carry on. Your view really does show how deep the problems go with the events like this. Let’s review: The laptop was found and the shop owner called the FBI who did nothing. So he called Giuliani to give him the laptop and he, the very next day, gave it to the FBI. When confronted with the information, Joe Biden publicly declared it to be Russian disinformation. After that, all the wonderful sources you want me to use came out claiming it was Russian disinformation. Biden had 51 former intelligence people claim it was likely Russian disinformation and that was the proof. And so the retribution against those that said it was a real story began. Now, a year and a half later, one of those outlets that besmirched the story has put out a story that it is indeed a true story. But here’s the kicker: there are many people, such as yourself, that cannot accept it. You’ve been told repeatedly it was false and so that is now your belief. It is so ingrained in your thoughts that you have to create irrational conspiracy theories to try making it true. And I honestly don’t mean that as a personal slam. You are a symptom and not a cause. You are a victim. We have @Tropical_Willie going on and on about the NY Post and “Fright Wingers” because he can’t actually discuss that the NY Times has now confirmed the story that he heard for a year and a half wasn’t actually false but was, in fact true. His defense mechanism is to try deflecting to nonsensical things, personal attacks and has to avoid the parts of reality that completely break down his beliefs. Again…he was fed his views for a year and a half on this story. He is a victim as well. And you two are not even close to being alone. It is insidious to me how the manipulation infiltrates people’s minds.

@HP And your response ignores the fact that they were right. But all the “reputable” people/outlets were, in fact, wrong. But they have you convinced they are right all the time. Your response also ignores the fact that Hunter’s laptop is real, along with all the negative things about Joe on it. Remember, it was conservative outlets that called out Biden’s corruption long ago. It was the leftist outlets that covered it up for him. Even after Biden bragged about doing exactly what Trump was accused of that led to his impeachment, the leftist media blew it off. And all the adherents, such as yourself, went along with it. You all heard the lies 24/7 and never questioned it. Worse yet, many of those lies had negatives in them about people that didn’t believe the lies. And the adherents picked that up too. It is one of the things that leads to so much division in this country.

Again, I am not going to fight with you over whether the New York Times got it wrong. My dispute with you is with the fact that you take the outlier of an example where the times got it wrong and the post got it right, then proceed on the assumption this is proof of the norm. You complain that the mainstream gets it wrong, and gets a pass from the gullible public, but the truth is that if the New York Times gets it wrong, I am much more apt to believe the error a mistake than deliberate deception. This is definitely not the case with the New York Post, and your ceaseless return to it as a source of reference deflates your own credibility. The rag has the journalistic integrity of the National Enquirer. The New York Times claims it is the country’s paper of record, and though it’s another fixture of the corporate press, it does give a shit about it’s reputation as a credible source for the news. Thus, the truth of the Biden’s kid’s laptop is printed after the issue although the paper has egg on its face. I don’t read the Post, but I seriously doubt if you will find a retraction or correction of this nature in its pages, short of an attempt to circumvent a defamation lawsuit. In fact, if the sheet actually engaged in correcting its inaccuracies and misrepresentations, half it’s content would consist of apologies.

@HP and I am trying to make you understand your argument is exactly what is wrong in this country. If you remember, those same arguments were used to discredit the original report. “It’s the Post and they get everything wrong” (claimed without actual proof). Sound familiar? Meanwhile, all the outlets that did zero investigating completely ignored the entire story, in fact denigrated it, and many people, such as yourself, believed them. This isn’t the first time the MSM has lied through their teeth. It has been happening with greater and greater frequency over the past couple decades. And they all echo the same stories. Remember Nick Sandmann? A HIGH SCHOOL KID that the WaPo, the NYT, CNN, and all the rest smeared because they saw a way to try smearing Trump. They literally lied…KNOWINGLY lied…to create a narrative. And it worked, initially. It was outlets like the Post that exposed the lie. Yet you defend them, even given that their track record is horrible. Suppose, for a moment, that it had been Fox that tried running a story like that. You’d have claimed it was Fox and of course they were lying. Because you have been conditioned to believe that if it isn’t a liberal outlet, it is unreliable, it is fake news, it is all conspiracy theory. And yes, the right wing outlets do the same. That is the point of this question. It all points to a horribly evil thing in our society. But apparently you are too drunk on the lies to even be able to consider anything might be wrong. Because to believe something might not be right would be to question and that, you have seen, is just plain wrong and can even cause you to be retaliated against.

That’s an interesting take on the way things work. As I see it, it is the right which has taken the position that any outlet that does not conform to its point of view, regardless of the issue is by definition liberal and somehow radically leftist. You can’t fault the public for ignoring the reporting from a publication renowned for sensationalist nonsense and silliness. I agree that I should collect my information from a variety of sources, but no one can read it all. And if you must cull the volume, it makes sense to eliminate the rag with alien abductions and Bermuda Triangle coverage as front page news. The mainstream media is indeed flawed—ALL OF IT. But the truth is that for all practical purposes there is no thriving leftist press. And here’s some news for you. FOX is now as mainstream America as KFC. And once again , I ask you to consider whether Trump’s actual conduct and blatant flaws prepared the public to accept those stories you deem false. And I also ask you if there’s a single scandal among those you claim deliberate lies which tops the man’s ACTUAL misdeeds and scandalous defects.

“You can’t fault the public for ignoring the reporting from a publication renowned for sensationalist nonsense and silliness.” No, I fault the public for believing the reporting from publications renowned for sensationalist nonsense and silliness.

As for Trump’s actual conduct causing the media to lie? No. I don’t buy that for a moment. The media’s job should be to report the facts. That isn’t what is happening. They lied about anything and everything just to try smearing Trump. They even lied about things he supposedly said. Look up The Charlottesville Lie. Remember Trump saying that Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists were very fine people? Yeah, so do many people. Except it never happened. What ACTUALLY happened was that he said that there were very fine people on both sides of the peaceful protests, but then specified he wasn’t talking about the Neo-Nazis or the White Supremacists. He said they should be denounced entirely. He actually said these things several times during that press conference. Yet they purposely left that out and claimed he said the N-N and WS were very fine people. Why would you make up such a blatant lie if not to try turning public opinion? To brainwash people? And it worked. I’m willing to bet there are some on these pages right now that still believe the lie. And the right wing outlets are equally bad. They try slanting things, they try leaving out facts, they try reading into things and offer opinion as fact almost as bad as the left wing outlets. And it is THAT behavior…the purposeful lies, the suppression of truth, the push of a narrative no matter what…that is the problem I am addressing.

I’m not saying that it’s OK to invent things about Trump. I’m saying the reason people believe those inventions is because the actual truth usually exceeds any lies concocted against him. As for that explanation rushed up some days after his comments on Charlottesville, Trump was quoted directly. There was no mention in it of what he meant by both sides. It was days later when he SPUN what he said to mean peaceful protesters. Read his quote and the surrounding passages for yourself. He was quoted DIRECTLY and the speech broadcast REPEATEDLY. Again, if the mainstream press invented slurs against Trump, no one could possibly find an easier job. The established and indisputable facts regarding the man remain more than sufficient.

@HP, as I have been saying…the lie was created by the media. Here is the transcript of the entire exchange where he used the term “very fine people” in reference to the protesters at Charlottesville. And just so you don’t have to strain yourself reading the whole thing, let me cut/paste it for you.

“Q Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

THE PRESIDENT: I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs — and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left — you just called them the left — that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Q (Inaudible) both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the —

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either.

And if you reported it accurately, you would say.

Q The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.

Q (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.

You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Q George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

THE PRESIDENT: George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down —

Excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?

Q I do love Thomas Jefferson.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.

Q Who are the good people?

Q Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.

THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest — because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country — a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.”

Let’s see…“I’m not talking about the Neo-Nazis and the white nationalist because they should be condemned totally.” That sounds pretty specific. And “The next day it looked like they had some rough, bad people – Neo-Nazis, white nationalist, whatever you want to call them”. That sounds pretty specific as well. And yes, several days later he WAS trying to set the record straight because the media lied fully about the entire thing. And again, people such as yourself still believe it, even after it has be debunked several times. So why did the media completely lie? Why did so many outlets complete ignore the facts and report the lie? THAT is the question you need to answer.

Frankly, I don’t believe Trump is either a white supremacist nor an out and out racist. That said, it would be difficult not to notice that he remains the darling of both those ideologies to an extraordinary degree. It would appear that his fans from those disciplines are equally impressed by those liberal lies. It isn’t the disputed issues involving the man’s character which brand him repulsive, but rather the frequency and severity of the negatives that are both proven and beyond dispute. The man is and remains the most scandal laden President this country has yet to produce. The insistence that this is merely the invention of conniving media or crafty liberals just doesn’t fly.

@HP but that is the point. Many of the scandals are made up things. Look at the Russia Collusion thing. HUGE deal. Guaranteed Trump had criminal activities. Looked like he stole the election. But wait! The entire thing was a scam, perpetrated by the Democrats and backed up by the complicit and abetting media. At one point Trump said he was being wiretapped even at Trump tower. He was ridiculed by the same Democrats and media. But wait! He actually was being wiretapped. So you can take a whole lot of the “scandals” and throw them out the window. In fact, it should have been a huge scandal on the Democrats…faking FISA warrants to spy on political rivals. What sort of country does that!

“US President Donald Trump has pardoned his former campaign manager Paul Manafort, ex-adviser Roger Stone and the father of Mr Trump’s son-in-law.

Mr Manafort was convicted in 2018 in an investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 US election.

Mr Trump had previously commuted the prison sentence of Mr Stone, who was convicted of lying to Congress.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55433522 24 December, 2020

It’s nice to have friends and bosses in HIGH places.

What Trump stated was that Obama was having him wiretapped. The allegation was scorned as it should have been..
Who is going to pay attention to the man who claims Obama born in Nigeria and Hillary the queenpin of a child trafficking pornography ring? The truth was (and is) that Trump’s buildings are loaded with notorious foreign tenants whose reputations match his own, and they like he SHOULD be subject to criminal investigation. That’s the kind of country I both prefer and applaud.

@Tropical_Willie so it is your statement that it’s horrible that Trump pardoned people who were targeted by an illegal investigation? The citation from the press concludes exactly what I am saying. There is no investigation by the media…they print whatever the Dems want them to print. They broadcast it far and wide until everyday people believe it. THAT is the something deeper that is going on. Now we have John Durham confirming that Trump was spied on not just as a candidate, but also as a sitting president by his political rivals. That is HUGE news, yet there is basically crickets from the same media that had no problem smearing him.

@HP John Durham’s report showed Trump was being spied on. Either Obama’s AG was completely rogue, the FBI was completely rogue, and/or Obama knew and approved of the spying. That isn’t made up, it is basic logic. Unless, like so many other Dems, he wants to plead ignorance and incompetence instead of corruption. But that plea may end up being taken out of his hands. Again, the media scorns something, treats it as “unsubstantiated” because they don’t want to bother investigating…and everyone goes along with it. Now an investigation is showing all the ugliness and corruption that went into the entire smear campaign against Trump. And as it peels back the layers, it gets more and more ugly. So much so that what was “laughable” before is starting to become uncomfortable for many.

The resulting indictments, prison terms and resignations in disgrace resulting from those “illegal” investigations remain as testament to Trump’s criminal sensibilities. How many of them have been overturned or reversed? There are almost certainly more to come and I remain more than comfortable with every one of them.

The post was about RUSSIAN COLLUSION with Trump Manafort is a favorite “puppy” of Trump.
Stone is F(&*&ING liar for his “wantabe king” !
“The entire thing was a scam, perpetrated by the Democrats and backed up by the complicit and abetting media. At one point Trump said he was being wiretapped even at Trump tower. He was ridiculed by the same Democrats and media. But wait! He actually was being wiretapped. So you can take a whole lot of the “scandals” and throw them out the window. In fact, it should have been a huge scandal on the Democrats”

Trump pays back his puppies and minions . . . Lie and he’ll let you off !

About Durham. His is a case that directly illustrates my point. He compiled his report and has subsequently been forced to rescind the major thrust of his conclusions, thus preserving some shred of his personal integrity. Nevertheless, his report has been selected and ginned up by (surprise, surprise) the Washington Post with a handy assist by none other than FOX. Apparently neither of these blatant propaganda organs have bothered to notify YOU ofDunham’s take back and OPEN admission that the investigations were FULLY justified.

@HP did you happen to read what Durham’s “take back” was? Or did the left leaning media outlets just interpret it for you? This is pertinent because it shows exactly what I have been saying and what this whole question was about. The right wing media read stuff into his filing. The left wing media initially ignored the whole thing and then claimed he (Durham) was just trying to ignite a media firestorm. Neither side was even close. Durham never retracted one single thing on his indictments. All he did was to set the record straight as to why he had certain things in it. He didn’t make false accusations, he didn’t release it to the media ahead of filing, he didn’t do anything except what he was tasked with doing…getting to the heart of the matter. So both right wing media and left wing media try manipulating things. And fools on both sides believe it. Here’s a thought for you: I didn’t trust right wing or left wing “interpretation” when I looked into this case. I found a copy of his actual filing and read it. Unfortunately, that is the sort of world we are in. The issues go so deep that you can’t trust anything you see or hear anymore.