While I do think that much of this country, and especially southern states, are very backwards in their thinking, I am relieve that the article says they’re not considering bans on certain forms of birth control at this time.

I don’t think so. No contraception is a Catholic thing. Other Christians don’t have as much of a problem with it

Plan B is definately a future target in some states, mine included. Other contraception is not a target that I’m aware of.

If anything, I think same-sex marriage is next. If anything else is up for a federal protection rollback.

Is any man really sponge worthy?~
I’m not sure, but I don’t think they make sponges any longer.
But I get your point. What will be next?

It’s being talked about also by a republican in Arizona.
Apparently they are going after Griswold Vs Conneticut whiched allowed married couples to use birth control. They said it was wrongly decided.
Talk about Republicans wanted total government overreach. Now they want to insert themselves into peoples private marriage decisions on when to have a kid or not have one.
It really is about keeping them bearfoot and pregnant.

IUD is a possible target, because of the possibility of conception when using an IUD.

They could probably go after the pill too, but that’s really pushing it. The pill supposedly worth three ways, stopping ovulation, making the environment more difficult for Soren to get to an egg, and making the uterus less likely to support a pregnancy. I took the pill for years, and I feel 100% I never ovulated while taking it, and as soon as I stopped I was ovulating again, but if someone can possibly pop an egg while using bc pills, and it gets fertilized, but then the hormones prevent it from attacking to the uterus well, then they could argue the pill is killing a baby.

You only need a slim chance for these people to go after it.

Cab someone clarify for me; the case is about 15 weeks? Does that mean this particular case is about abortion being legal before15 weeks?

There’s also an increasing effort to criminalize miscarriages.

Yes. They are also mailing calendars from 1955 to all the state residences to see if they can fake them into thinking it is okay to roll back to 1950’s way of thinking.
I am considering moving out of the country if this sh*t show continues to devolve.

@Demosthenes: Can you explain or provide links?

@jca2 Here is a good article on the subject. It includes many links to other articles on the subject and state laws that have been or could be used to prosecute women who are thought to have done something to cause their miscarriage.

Thank you @Demosthenes.

They won’t stop.

I think they’ll ban coat hangers eventually. Because the bible never said women should have closets.

They’ll go for the “Constitution never mentioned women or people color voting” !

Birth control & educated women will be the next targets!!! Matt Gaetz is already attacking educated women. WHAT is it about education scares the hell out of Republican males???

An uneducated person is easier to con into voting for you and to take low wages and basically work for slave wages.

When I divorced my ex, I couldn’t get a credit card in MY name because I needed a male to vouch for my good name. I sure do hate to see us go BACK to those times & way of thinking!!! That was only in the late 1970’s.

The right wing Supreme Court justices are deriving their moral philosophy and judicial reasoning by quoting a guy in their ruling who had women executed for witchcraft and said that women can’t be raped by their husbands.

It would be like unironically quoting Vlad the Impaler’s treaties on humane execution in a Supreme Court ruling on “cruel and unusual punishments.”

At this point, anything’s possible.

Lets be reasonable about just who these people really are. They’re christian fundamentalists and they don’t speak for all Republicans but have very effectively hijacked the Republican party. The voltage between political extremes right now is terrifying and the fringes are running the show casting an ever widening net of influence over people. There is nothing “Conservative” about rolling all this back. “Conservative” is generally about maintaining the status quo, this shit.. it’s just blatantly regressive and mortifying to moderate Conservative/Republicans such as myself.

Here is the problem so many have with politics…
it is full of politicians.
The whole point of the American way was to not let politics be a lifelong profession. That is how we get individuals trying to serve their own interests rather than the interests of who they are supposed to represent.

I support no party, because party only exists with the voters, not the people running, mostly. The people running identify themselves as being affiliated with a party strictly as a means of convincing large groups to support something they would ordinarily not. If two things are supported by a majority, and then someone loudly touts those two things, and slides in a third, they can often convince listeners that third thing is somehow more important than they realized.

This is why more people who are not politically long term envisioned should run for office. The American government is supposed to be we the people, not “them guys.”

As mentioned already, it is Catholics who are opposed to birth control, and not even all of them. When looking at not republicans, but at conservative oriented individuals, birth control is not opposed generally.
My only opposition to birth control is the variety of potential health concerns.
I would prefer people masturbate rather than screw everything that walks. That doesn’t mean I support eliminating contraception. I just want people to be more selective, and back off the practice of screwing everyone they find attractive.

By the way, devout Jews are also against birth control. Sex is seen as a means of creating new people, and not meant for pleasure.

@Patty_Melt So, Evangelicals don’t believe life begins at conception?

What Catholics were in charge of the country when single women couldn’t get birth control pills?

Why do Republican politicians cater to the “base” so much? The base is the extremists in the Republican Party, and I never understood it. 20 years ago I would have said they are 50% of the party. Now, I think it’s even more.

Democrats have extremists we deal with too, and politicians do things here and there to appease them, and it’s a mistake in my opinion, but it is nothing close to what the Republicans do, and our (Democrats) most prominent voices who were elected into office are more moderate. The only reason AOC gets so much TV time is Republicans went after her, and she is just a representative of her district.

Meanwhile, I have DeSantis saying nothing to denounce Nazis in front of Disney holding flags with Swastikas and DeSantis flags, and other Governors who think it’s ok to have no exceptions for terminating a pregnancy. To be clear, so far DeSantis acknowledges that things can go wrong in pregnancies, I hope the media doesn’t give Florida any attention on this abortion thing right now that he will be motivated to move to the crazy extreme on the topic. The lack of medical knowledge regarding what can happen during pregnancies is stunning.

The whole thing is blowing up right now because big pharma wants to sell record numbers of birth control.

@Patty_Melt you have a source for your statement ? ?

Where is yours? You claim to know the next move of people you never met. What is your source? Let’s hold you to the very same standard, sir.

@Patty_Melt The best thing that could happen is people buying and using more birth control. I doubt there is a panic buy for BC like the panic gun buying every time that topic is in the news. Although, maybe there is some hoarding going on. I don’t doubt industries get some benefit from the population being stirred up.

Drugs and condoms expire and get used up. Any panic buying now just means fewer sales next month. Guns can last forever.

@Patty_Melt: With birth control pills, it’s a prescription you get every month (hopefully paid by insurance) so you can’t hoard it because like most medications you get at the pharmacy, they won’t give you more than you’re alotted.

@JLeslie I just had a conversation last night with another conservative female and mother. While we are Pro-Life ourselves, we both feel some of these steps are too much.
You can’t be Pro-Life and actually care about womens lives, while supporting new laws that will kill women as well as children. Not in our opinion anyway.

As @Blackwater_Park said, Republicans catering to extremists will not be supported by all conservatives. While I won’t vote Democrat, each voter will have to decide to stick with embarassing Republican party extremists, or vote 3rd party.
That is not a winning strategy, to divide your own party.

I mean, Mitch McConnell is the one who said he’s open to a nationwide ban, so if this is just a distraction, you’d think he wouldn’t say the exact thing that Democrats have been Chicken Littleing over…

Yes. Those will all be next. Add that Adoptions by Gays will be out as well.
Male Control, Patriarchal Control, Party Control. It took down Nixon and will be the demise of the Republican party as we know it.

I have no idea what I said which gave the impression I said anything about hoarding birth control.
Let this be my clarification, I said nothing about hoarding, nor did I consider hoarding as a solution.

@KNOWITALL While rare, I actually have voted for specific Democrats in local elections when I supported their agenda and thought that it was best for the community. When you have close to home issues, partisan politics can take a back seat. For certain things I’m much more open to support specific candidates and not vote down the party line.

@Blackwater_Park Same here. Not all people in the parties are crap humans. :)

@Patty_Melt You said pharma will make money. How will they money if people aren’t buying more product? Or, did you mean in the stock market?

@KNOWITALL Right. Sometimes it’s a choice between fetus and mother and the feeling I generally get from the Christian Right is when choosing, the fetus is more important to them. I had a lot of fertility problems and wanted to have children, you probably remember, and when I moved to Tennessee still hoping to have a baby, the hospitals in the area were St.Francis and Baptist, and it made me nervous. I was afraid if I had a pregnancy going wrong the doctors might not prioritize me. I had already had two eptopic pregnancies and 3 other miscarriages. My OB there answered me perfectly when I asked her, she said I was her patient and would always be her priority.

I don’t know if you remember during the 2016 primaries Ben Carson said life of the mother basically never happens. I was so angry. I’m so sick of people not taking pregnancy seriously regarding the threats it can cause to the mother’s health. Not just death, but other health effects like diabetes, kidney strain, anemia, strain on the spine, high blood pressure, hospitalized for chronic vomiting, injury during the birthing process, just to name a few. The majority of pregnancies maybe are smooth and no issue, I really don’t know the actual statistics, but I know a ton of women who deal with something while being pregnant, and sometimes it’s a permanent change to their health.

@JLeslie But you aren’t Baptist or Catholic so why would you identify with that thought process?

Hospitals should serve all equally, sorry you didn’t feel like a priority.

@KNOWITALL Catholic hospitals don’t go against Catholic ethics. It doesn’t matter what belief system the patient has. At least that’s how it has been for every Catholic hospital my sister has worked at.

A friend of mine wanted her tubes blocked and she couldn’t get the procedure done at the Catholic hospital, she had to drive farther to the other hospital where her doctor was also credentialed. The hospital would have considered her case through the ethics committee, but she doubted they would approve it. Her reason was because she thought she would go “crazy” if she got pregnant. She would never abort. She wasn’t married, so that obviously implies she was sexually actively while not married. The Catholics don’t like that.

Baptist hospitals I have no idea.

@JLeslie Baptists are way more hard core, perfection is attainable is the code. My friend who miscarried was devastated with the loss, then morally conflicted about the d&c. I talked her through it but she was worried it was considered abortion. Sad.

@KNOWITALL I hate that she has to feel badly about something like that. That to me is part of the ignorance that comes with this constant pushing that any medical interference is a sin or against God in some way.

Was she far along? Sometimes doctors do D&C’s when it’s not necessary.

@JLeslie I believe it was around two months at the time.
Yes, it upset me, too, but that’s part of our religious beliefs. I know ya’ll don’t believe it’s a ‘culture’ but to us a lot of the issues you don’t understand, we grow up with. Call it indoctrination if you need to, it’s just how it is.
I think that’s the primary reason we see thing’s from opposite pov’s and miscommunicate. In my area keeping all babies or choosing the child’s life over the mothers life is just taken as a fact of life.
I know people who have had abortions, but they were not religious, and didn’t feel it was more upsetting than a dental appointment. So I do see the points you all make but it’s difficult to truly see a baby as a fetus for us.

@KNOWITALL I absolutely agree it is cultural as well as religious. It’s not difficult for me to understand why people are against abortion.

What bothers me is the lack of understanding that one in five pregnancies miscarry. I don’t mean you, I’m going back to the culture at large. Women are made to feel like they have something wrong with them if they miscarry. There might be something wrong that needs to be addressed, but often it’s just part of nature that some pregnancies don’t make it. When they don’t miscarry completely they need to be medically helped along (D&C) for the health of the woman, and especially for her fertility health. It’s actually a way to try to ensure she can go on to have more babies if that might help your friend feel better.

So, are you saying the life of the fetus is more important than the mother? That is what you were taught? Let’s say a pregnant woman gets diagnosed with cancer (God forbid) and the treatment will harm or kill the fetus, is the woman supposed to not take the treatment? Even if it might leave the baby with no mother? Is that how the religion and culture would look at it?

@JLeslie Short answer, yes.
It’s at the heart of the Covid masking, too.

I get that many of you here don’t consider some of these issues as personal choices, because you feel Christians are trying to force their religious beliefs on you, truly I do. But if you truly believe in God, you also cannot vote against His values for us.

Yes some religions forbid pork and some eat it anyway. There are many who don’t care here just like other areas, but I believe here (red states), the majority are more hardcore.

As far as miscarriage, we have plenty. Usually those women are very open about it, Angel Babies as they are usually referred to. I know one Christian who had four and now has two beautiful children. It’s sad but they are not shamed for it here.

My friend who had an issue with it is fairly young and very religious, she knows I’m ProLife and I’m glad she trusted me to comfort her and soothe her fears.
I know in some areas the Christians are the ones screaming horrible things outside clinics but those are not my people, we don’t do that.

The goal is for no women or children to be hurt. I promise love and caring ate at the root of being ProLife for most of us.
No one wants to discuss the reality of mental issues, death or unhygienic conditions, but I assure you that the clinic here was shut down by the Health Dept, religion was not involved. We also legislated to have actual doctors available for women to keep them safe afterwards, it was a step not taken voluntarily and women died. Once you start researching, if you truly care about women, you’ll begin to understand it’s not about hate, there is a lot of ugly reality that you don’t hear on the news.

@KNOWITALL I never felt it’s about hate.

@JLeslie Many do though. I just wish more people were educated on the safety issues, instead of ProChoice good, ProLife bad. Both sides have some great points. A lot of safety issues are addressed NOW because ProLifers forced the issue in the past.

I talked to a Christian friend today and we discussed how God is all about choice. From Adam & Eve to actually accepting Him as your Savior.
We struggle, a black woman and a white woman, both Christians, with removing choice.

To me that’s the best ProChoice argument you’ll ever have with the religious Right. If you want them to actually hear you, the narrative needs to be accurate.

This is what I mean.
https://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/2022/05/joint-letter-from-more-than-70-leading-pro-life-organizations-criminalizing-women-who-have-abortions-is-not-pro-life/amp/

@KNOWITALL I don’t doubt there are some clinics that had some cleanliness and safety issues, we have full fledged hospitals that sometimes have issues. I would say it’s statistically rare for very bad conditions.

When Reagan was president he wanted Surgeon General Koop to say abortions damaged women leaning them less likely to be able to have babies in the future and that abortion was a very risky medical procedure. He refused. He would not lie to help Reagan with his Christian base. As much as Koop was a conservative he wouldn’t do it for Reagan. Pregnancy and labor and delivery are much riskier, and complications from abortions, especially first term, are rare.

Look under the section SG of the US. It says in part Though Koop was opposed to abortion on personal and religious grounds,[4][14][16][17] he declined to state that abortion procedures performed by qualified medical professionals posed a substantial health risk to the women whose pregnancies were being terminated, despite political pressure to endorse such a position.[18][17

You’re reading a lot of what the right wing has pushed in their messaging for years regarding the supposed health risks.

Statistics for complications from abortion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430793/

Statistics for complications from pregnancy and birth complications https://www.bcbs.com/the-health-of-america/reports/trends-in-pregnancy-and-childbirth-complications-in-the-us#complications

@JLeslie Okay, so we’ll dismiss those poor women just like Reps do rape and incest. Statistically neither matter, got it.

I will say it was NOT Democrats pushing for the new laws regarding mandatory health inspections and doctors available for emergencies. Even before Covid over 40% shut down nationwide.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-abortion-clinic-suspension-20130308-story.html

Here’s a liberal take on how it was done, but a little silent on the actual violations which were often disgusting.
https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-health-officials-in-pro-life-states-are-quietly-dismantling-abortion-access

@KNOWITALL Not what I said at all. I want abortion to be safe when it is performed. Any clinics that are not meeting health regulations must be addressed, and I have no doubt it affects poor women more. It’s terrible. If conservatives are helping to make abortion safer that’s great. Are they helping make abortion easily and equally accessible for poor women?

I want to say I’m glad I never needed to make this decision, and I most likely would not choose abortion myself, although if I had been 15 or 16 my mom probably would have pushed me into it.

Most abortions now are done with pills. I think more would be with pills if people didn’t push the narrative that it’s normal for a woman to miss a period. Anyone who is regular should assume they are pregnant if they are late and take a test. Especially teenagers are told being irregular is normal.

@JLeslie Safer maybe, but not easier. I’ve heard zero chatter about birth control restrictions.

@KNOWITALL “Short answer, yes.”

I’ve rigged up 2 cages suspended over a pit of lava. In one cage is a 1 week old crying baby, in the other is a petri dish with 2 fertilized embryos verified under microscope. There’s a 10 second timer. When it hits 0 both cages are plunged into the lava below. There are two buttons in front of you. Each corresponds to saving one of the cages from dropping into the lava. Only one button can be pushed. If you push both then both cages drop. Which cage do you save?

@gorillapaws Obviously the one who can feel pain. If all abortions were as merciful we wouldn’t be discussing it. Js

@KNOWITALL Take pain out of the equation. Let’s say instead of lava, I’ve got ray guns that instantly vaporizes the target faster than any pain neuron can respond. Now which do you choose?

I find it repulsive that you are making a game of killing babies.
If you can have Ray guns, then I can have a magic retrieval device which rescues all the endangered children.

I hold with my contention that in the case of any abortion, the baby’s father must be identified and killed.
If abortions are all about rape and incest, then they would be reduced dramatically by executing the aggressor. In fact, they should be killed in the same manner as the fetus, same day, no reprieve.

I came across this interview with Frank Schaefer about how he recounts the history of pro-choice rights and Evangelicals and Koop, Reagan, Graham, and more. https://youtu.be/25JyC5Whhvc

I have heard a lot of theories and conjectures, but the most plausible one seems to me to be the one that tends to reduce the population of the earth, perhaps this is also a joke, but due to the fact that statistics indicate a sharply growing population, especially because of China and India! Worth thinking