Well, he’s Christian, not Muslim. And everyone knows this.

You don’t?

Obama is Christian, not Muslim.

I’m reiterating robmandu because there are some people who can’t get this simple, and very SHORT fact through their thick skulls.

No Muslim, yes Christian.

And if he were Muslim, and sworn in on the Koran, what’s the beef? [halal, of course.]

:)

Obama, a Christian took his oath of office on a Bible, not a Koran. Here is a link that might help to clarify this.

Bible not Koran

This is a good question because I’ve seen a lot of lies plastered around the internet about this. Of course he took his oath of office on a Bible (no matter what that stupid chain letter says).

He’s a Christian, not a Muslim. If he was any other religion (Muslim, Pagan, Mormon, Buddhist, etc), he would have no chance of winning.

In Minnesota, we elected Keith Ellison, a Muslim to Congress, the first Muslim Congressman ever. He took his oath of office on the Koran.

The right wing hate/smear/lie machine figured one black looks just like another to ignorant racists, and Obama has a Muslim sounding name, so let’s just confuse these two and that will bring out the redneck vote.

Isn’t this trolling? Deliberately invoking a hot button question based on a spurious lie?

daloon, only if queenzboulevard already knew the answer.

I’m so sick of this bullshit. Why even answer questions such as these? This just feeds the hatred and bigotry of idiots. I know quite a few friends of mine who, unlike me, are not voting for Obama. But that’s because of their political beliefs. None of them have approached me declaring that Barack Obama is a Muslim, or a terrorist, or that he “faked his birth certificate” or any other such nonsense. If they tried to spread any of these hateful rumors to me then they wouldn’t be my friends. I personally don’t agree with John McCain’s political philosophies but I’m not about to question his allegience to this country or his God.
Frankly, I don’t care about what religion Barack Obama follows because it doesn’t mean a Goddamn thing. These neo-con, Karl Rove tactics are not going to work this time.

AC, I feel an obligation to answer these questions. Fluther sees a lot of internet traffic and gets indexed rather quickly by google. To leave an answer off might make a lurker think that… maybe it was the Koran that he swore in on.

It’s good to squash these rumors and get them on a search engine.

@bodyhead fyi Mormons are Christian.

Queenzblvd lists among his interest “politics” and “the election of 2008”. Does that have any relevance to the question? Maybe.

@willbrawn, it’s debatable. Personally, I don’t think that Mormonism falls under the umbrella of Christianity as is illustrated by this handful of articles:

http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html
http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/christian.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/9r2/9r2068.html
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm

@all I know that Obama is a Christian, and that he most likely took his oath on the Bible. However I was listening to a conversation where the person said he took his oath on the Koran. I chimed in and said “are you sure about that?” He was very sure he said, and since I had no evidence that he took his oath on the Bible, I came to tap the collective.

Ugh.

[My third one of these today!]

Sorry for being more annoyed than usual.

@bodyhead I know what I believe.

I could barely breathe while reading this thread, not to mention the original question. I’m
relieved to read queenz’s explanation of why he asked.

Isn’t it interesting that all the “obama’s an arab”, “obama’s a muslim”, “obama’s not one of us”, “obama what kind of name is that?” stuff is being unfurled so late? desperate, desperate, desperate.

I know Obama has a website where he rebuffs these allegations with a picture of his swearing in. Anyone remember the page?

is it www.fightthesmears.com

And John Kerry started one too

www.truthfightsback.com

Both VERY good sites, that and Snopes (www.snopes.com). Snopes has an entire category for Obama smears alone.

I just stumbled upon this today. It’s an article about the person who wrote the first (baseless) article attacking Obama for being an anti-American Muslim:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Among the revealations – he hates Jews, having said that he can see why the holocaust happened and that he becomes less and less sorry that it did with every passing day, and

He was denied a law license for being mentally unstable.

I know Obama is a Christian. That’s a sort of “no duh”

But I wonder, did he USED to be a Muslim? Like when he was younger, taught to be a Muslim but then converted to Christainity later?

I try to ask this, but people just freak out and say “OMG NO HE’S A CHRISTIAN” and they totally misunderstand me.

i’m pretty sure he swore on a bible. but on matters of his actual religion, i really don’t care what he believes in, or what he calls his god.

He was never a Muslim. His father was born a Muslim but became an athiest before Obama was born. Obama was never raised a Muslim. He did live in Indonesia when he was a child, and he went to two different schools, one was a Christian school and one was a Muslim school (but neither forced their ideology, they were Christian/Muslim in the makeup of the student body). His mother enrolled him in different schools so he would have exposure to different ways of thinking. Obama was actually non-religious until about 20 years ago when he accepted Christianity. This is what he says in his books his first book having been written before he ever ran for political office, and by all accounts of everyone who knew him, it checks out. And more importantly, I would have voted for him even if he was a practicing Muslim, I couldn’t care less about his religion. I’d be MUCH happier if he were an athiest to be completely honest with you.

@dalepetrie

I’m going to try to find more evidence that this is true. I’m still a little skeptical of his past.
Thanks for the info though.

Well, the evidence is in his first book that you claim you won’t read. It’s in every single news story quoting people who actually knew him. The only people who have made claims to the contrary are easily discredited. I’d say the best evidence is to look at any allegations to the contrary and consider the source.

@dale

I’m sorry, but just because of his books says that he wasn’t EVER Muslim doesn’t mean it’s credible to me. He could have been lying to improve his public image. Just because the news says something doesn’t make it true (heck, look at FOX). The only thing on the news that I saw about his Muslim past was some whiny woman who supposedly knew him and was pleading that it wasn’t true. Hmm.

I think both sides can be discredited.

Obama is Christian, regardless of the smears the whiney right tries to spead. I could give a shit if he was a Muslim. WTF would it matter?
It wouldn’t. Move on.

His books, his family, his past-coworkers, his friends, his school teachers, his colleagues in colleges and community organizations, his pastors, pretty much everyone who has ever known him first hand who has been asked has said there is absolutely no reason to believe he is, was or has ever been a Muslim. Now the ONLY way to discredit every single person he’s ever known is to find someone CREDIBLE who actually has, oh, I don’t know ONE SINGLE SOLITARY SHRED OF EVIDENCE to support this claim. Every single person who has made such a claim has essentially had no first hand contact with Obama and has had an opposing political agenda. And you gotta admit, it seems pretty racist when you get right down to it, name one white candidate whom we’ve EVER questioned if they were telling the truth about their religious beliefs, I triple dog DARE you. It’s a complete and utter bullshit lie and if you can’t produce evidence to the contrary, pardon my French, but you’d have to be mildly retarded to believe it given all the evidence that does exist.

Well, I’m sorry I’m still skeptical and I don’t think obama is a god-send, can-do-no-wrong here. I’m going to see what I can find. But like I’d actually share with you. :)

Dude, take a chill pill. Sorry I insulted the creditability of St. obama and the media that’s constantly kissing his ass. :D

@seekingwolf- This is a black and white world to you, isn’t it?
No, I don’t mean that in a racial sense.

“Tis the season to be pleasant, I thought.

I’m chill enough, but I’m increasingly frustrated because I took you to be a person engaging in honest intellectual debate, and I’m beginning to feel like you only are willing to listen to answers that support your own worldview. You’ve done nothing to show me that I’m wrong.

Part of the mix up here is that there was indeed a U.S. Representative, Keith Ellison, who used a two-volume Quran – instead of a Bible – at his photo-op reenactment of his swearing in ceremony in 2007.

That particular Quran was once owned by Thomas Jefferson and loaned to Ellison by the Library of Congress.

Obama’s not muslim.

Re “what you can find” bring it on, I’ll be more than happy to look at it, I have supreme confidence my BS meter will sniff out the problem in 2 seconds flat.

And hey, I’m not a believer in Obama as a God-send (the jury is still out on the whole God question itself as far as I’m concerned), and I don’t think he’s infallible, far from it. I just wish that someone who hates him (which you’ve said), would actually hate him for valid reasons and not manufactured ones. Personally, I have zero problem with a conservative who believes in things antithetical to those that Obama believes to tell me why they think Obama is wrong headed in his stated policy positions. That is an honest intellectual debate. But someone who tells me he’s a radical Muslim, who’s only popular because he’s black has zero idea what they’re talking about and are regurgitating right wing talking points which were created to foster a sense of “otherness” about him, because the only way the Republicans were going to win this time was by exploiting fear in the electorate. I get very upset by attempts to shy away from honest debate into the realm of make believe, because we’ve had enough of that crap, that’s the reason so much is screwed up in this country, because we didn’t have intellectually honest and serious people trying to tackle these problems for many years. Instead, we’ve had power hungry, self serving politicians who considered all to be fair in political gamesmanship. It needs to end, that’s one big reason I voted for Obama, not because I think he’s perfect. Because I think he isn’t a person who will sell out the interests of his country for personal political gain. And I think everything I’ve read about him bears that out.

So if you want to provide evidence that he used to be a Muslim, by all means…I’m sure I’ve seen it all and debunked it all before, but try me, I’m a big enough person to admit if I’m wrong.

See that’s the thing, I doubt you’d ever admit you were wrong.

You said you’ve already “Debunked” the contrary arguments, well, what about those that support your argument? Have you even tried to debunk those or do you just take them as credible?

Why, I believe you’re just as biased as I am! :D

And no, this isn’t black/white for me. I don’t believe obama is messiah, but same with McCain. I don’t agree with everything he said (I am pro-choice, anti death penalty) but I decided I had to follow him anyway. Yeah, he’s made mistakes, and I’ll admit, his campaign was badly-run. But I still feel he was the most pragmatic. Now I’m honestly afraid for the country and the economy. I feel it’s just going to get worse.

Why don’t you ask around before you judge me seekingwolf, you’ll find out how dead fucking wrong you are. Everything and I mean every single god damned thing I read about ANY candidate I did the research, I have come by MY opinions completely and utterly honestly and you will be hard pressed to find anyone here who will disagree with that, I guarantee you. I followed this campaign since January of 2007, I watched every debate, Democratic and Republican, I listened to, watched, read everything I could get my hands on. And I found that there were SOME people who were FAR more interested in spreading lies than in engaging in honest debate. They were called Republicans, and that’s why they got their asses handed to them. They rely on fear and intellectual incuriousity, and you have fallen into the later category. I will be more than happy to debate you, but show me some facts. Until then, I’m just going to regard you as an ill-informed, prejudiced, easily led blowhard with a ton of opinions, but zero facts to back them. Again, prove me wrong, and I’ll apologize and admit I spoke in haste…but simply dismissing what I say because YOU doubt it to be true holds no water.

Dale speaks the truth—if there’s one thing he knows, it’s politics. @wolf Even as a fellow 19 yr old I can tell you that you picked the wrong Fluther member to accuse of not knowing his material. There’s a difference between those who form knowledge with facts & research, and those who form their own knowledge based on what they want to know. I live in the south of VA, and the latter is all there is. I blame laziness and fear of the unknown; it’s really easy to not do the work to get the facts, and to just do what everyone else is saying. Here if you don’t believe what I believe, you just cannot be right—it’s impossible.

Two months ago I posted this question because someone swore it was Obama that took his oath on the Koran. He was well educated (although only my age), but one simple mistake (because he did not back his knowledge with facts), and the rest of the world was wrong. I did not know the facts then, so I did not argue what I knew (which was that it was Ellison).

My point is we all think we’re right, but the only ones who are actually right are the ones who have done the research before they so passionately present their knowledge as truth. Arguing without facts is pointless.

@ wolf On a side note with no offense: you will not be able to find anything to support your argument. There were people who got paid to find that stuff out for McCain’s campaign, so they would have found it long before you.

Mc Cain has yellow teeth from eating babies. “I’m going to see what I can find” to support my argument. If I can’t find anything, I’ll still believe my mistaken point. ~

breedmitch, I heard he has yellow teeth from eating puppies. See? You’re just as bias as I am.

@Body; Breedmitch was being ironic. (And it’s “biased,” which is one adjective that never applies to Breed.)

I was actually agreeing with him/her. I thought the true irony was expressed in the statements made by seekingwolf. It’s funny when you have a name promoting exploration and searching and all you do is regurgitate the same biased lies made by the people who send your children to die and bankrupt your economy. Weeeeeeeeeee

To keep with the tone of this thread, it’s wheeeeeee.

Why does this question bother so many people? Not so long ago we had a Hindu prime minister and a Muslim President. During the election, there was anxious discourse on whether the prime minister would put up a temple in the grounds of the official residence, etc. It was amusing to watch, but troubling, too. Of course, the whole controversy hid real concerns that an East Indian could not make a good Prime Minister. (He was OK). Racism will spoil anything.

@bea2345 – I think you answered your own question there, but I guess it depends on the perspective from which you asked it. If you really meant, why would it bother people IF Obama were a Muslim, then that’s a different answer than, why does asking if he’s a Muslim bother people, and essentially the answer to one leads to the answer to the other.

Here’s the big problem…politics in the US is a game of one upsmanship…it really hasn’t historically been about fleshing out the best person for the job. Essentially, people in the US have an alarmingly low voter turnout rate for a Democratic process…even in this last election, as this website shows in great detail, an election which had the highest turnout in over 40 years, of 212 million people who were eligible to vote, 131 million showed up. This means only 61% of the people, in an election which drew more actual people than any other US Presidential election in history, and which drew a larger percentage of the population than we’ve seen since JFK (and one of the largest percentage turnouts ever, certainly within the top 5), even still, 39% of the people….over 81 million people who could have voted, chose “none of the above”.

That is symptomatic of a problem with our elections, not enough viable choices because of a two party system, which would not be as big of a problem if either party were seen as upstanding, but unfortunately, both parties pretty much have some pretty bad aspects to them and that keeps people away. One of the worst things is the preponderance of negative advertising and just general cutting down of one’s opponent.

You really have to go back to what happened starting in the primaries and leading up to election day. Obama for the most part rose above it, and he was the first viable Presidential candidate in most American’s lifetimes to have done so. In fact you can draw interesting parallels…the last time voter turnout was this high was when LBJ was elected in 1964. Much of his win was attributable to the fact that JFK was no longer around and had not gotten to fulfill his legacy and voters’ hopes that LBJ could fill those shoes. JFK’s 1960 numbers were even bigger, but prior to that, there wasn’t as much excitement…turnout had been lower in previous years. One big thing besides just looking for some attachment to JFK which motivated voters in 1964 was the threat of nuclear annihilation, and LBJ knew how to exploit this. He created an ad called Daisy, which can be seen here shows the first real visceral use of fear in American political ads. This one played on peoples’ fears, which were real and visceral and it got people to the polls, in much the same way that GW Bush got people to the polls in 2004 by invoking the theme that the stakes were too high to not vote in the incumbent President when the terrorists were planning another 9/11. In 2004, 9/11 was only 3 years removed, and a number of people were still petrified. In 1964, Bay of Pigs was only 3 years removed, and people were scared shitless. Both times the incumbent prevailed, and both times election results had been very high historically speaking, but neither was a record turnout either.

What this essentially did (this ad) was to prove that fear was a powerful motivator to win elections, but as time wore on, that’s all that Presidential politics became in this country, scaring Americans into being afraid of your opponent. And when one side used fear to bludgeon the other, that side did well. But what happens when BOTH sides start to bash each other about the head? Well, then both sides have some would be supporters who are scared away from the polls by their opponent’s attack ads. So, for 44 years, turnout was even more depressed than usual. Again, this last time 82 million people voted for neither, while Obama got 69 million votes. And he did NOT pull these scare tactics, but his oppponent DID, and that was key. Many would be voters have grown up with this custom of scaring off voters, where people chose a side by default, but essentially were left with a “lesser of two evils” feeling about the whole thing. What no candidate had done in a long time was to give voters a reason to vote FOR him, and build that case. And as such, a lot of people not only voted for Obama, but were happy to have that opportunity, finally.

But his opponents both in the primary and general election did EVERYTHING they could to scare peolpe off, and what they really employed more than anything was this fear of the unknown…they tried to paint Obama with this sense of “otherness”. Basically, they tried to exploit peoples’ fears, many of which were racially motivated, without actually just coming out and saying, “you’re not really voting for the BLACK guy, are you?” Like you said, racism can spoil anything. But there just aren’t enough white Americans who are afraid of black people anymore….of course there are two types of black man, you’ve got your regular black man who is just like your regular white man, but then you’ve got your angry black man. White America would NOT vote for an angry black man, which is why we heard so much about Reverend Wright…Wright was angry at the injustices of the past and he had a job which was part theater…he had to go up in front of people and rant and rave and holler and decry moral outrage….and to white America, that made him an Angry black man…and the fact that Obama went to his church (even though 10,000 other Chicagoans did as well), just that association was nearly enough to sink him….certainly kept Hillary in the race for another 4 months. So, Obama had to struggle to make sure that when people tried to exploit irrational fears (which most Americans assumed would happen if a black guy ever tried to become President), that he kept saying, “this is ME, THAT is not me.” If Obama had pulled a Howard Dean and blown his stack even once, we’d be looking at President Hillary Clinton right now. As it was, 59 million people still voted against Obama, and that’s more than voted for John Kerry 4 years before.

So, here’s the deal, even though Muslims are peaceful, the 2nd largest religion in the world, and it’s only an infinitesimally small percentage of all Muslms who believe their God wants them to kill non-believers (probably about the same percentage as there are Christians who believe this, yet no one is scared of Christians in this country) 19 Muslims attacked the United States in 2001, killing nearly 3,000 people on our own soil, in the name of their God. For far too many Americans, that’s all they need to know to know that all Muslims, hell, all the people they think of as “sand niggers” are dangerous and evil. And therefore, Muslims are our enemies. Now, we were over 7 years removed from 9/11 on election day, and it seems that America is starting to get over some of the fears that make them scared of any Muslim association, but right now, I’d be willing to bet that far more Americans fear Muslims than blacks. In 1964, Americans feared Communists, all one had to do was to invoke the Communist threat if their opponent were to win, and he’d be swept into office.

And why is this? Because Americans look for the easy answer. The first question that was on EVERYONE’S mind on 9/11 was “Why?” Why did they attack us? Well, the real reason is that US has adopted an interventionist foreign policy when it serves her own economic interests, but has had little regard for the lingering negative affects left by doing so. Essentially, we held the Russians off when they invaded Afghanistan in the late 80s but when we got what we wanted, we forgot about Afghanistan like it was a redheaded stepchild. For us it wasn’t about making sure that Afghanistan was ruled by good people, but about keeping Russia from expanding. Once our objective had been met, we left them high and dry, to fall into the hands of the Taliban, who were run by that small faction of Muslims who had bastardized the religion by making it not only acceptable, but desirable to kill in the name of their God. And they didn’t forget how we left their country war torn and in shambles, so really, the reason Al Quaeda formed and took up the purpose of destroying America had more to do with the fact that America’s foreign policy was often times destructive to other people in the world if that was what served America’s best interests. Which by the way is exactly the point Rev Wright made when he said that God would not bless America, but would damn America, but God Damn America does not exactly make Americans feel like you’re on their side, now does it.

But we missed a golden opportunity, instead of pointing out why people hated us, the pictures of Bush administration officials shaking hands with the likes of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden back in the 80s went unseen by most Americans, and our “fearless” leader chose to say that they attacked us because they hate freedom. It was a simple answer, designed not to inform people, but to keep them scared of an irrational, widespread force, which we could now attack. Rather than using this as a learning opportunity about the problems with fundamentalist radicalism in religion so that people could see that even with Christianity, radicalism was a destructive force, instead it was in the best interest of those in power in America at the time to poison the well against the whole Muslim religion in order to serve a greater foreign strategic goal, essentially, repeating the mistakes of the past which led to these problems in the first place. As such, Muslims became the new American whipping boy, and an alarmingly high number of Americans simply distrust Muslims in general. So many simply see the very visible reality of women covering their faces in public, even in this country, and relate to the stories they heard about Afghanistan and the Taliban and how much they seemed to be living in the 1400s, and weren’t enlightened like us smart Americans. So we distrust it and see it as backwards and that scares us, giving people who would have a motive to scare us something with which they could.

So, why are people upset by the question, again if you’re wondering why people would be upset IF Obama was a closet Muslim, that pretty much answers it, because we’ve manufactured and institutionalized fear of Muslims in our culture using 9/11 as the catalyst, and this was done deliberately for political gain on the part of the Republican party.

But why are people who know this not to be true upset? Well, that’s because we know that the only reason someone is asking this question is because they heard it from someone who spread that rumor/lie out there in the first place. We know that the shitwad who started this rumor knew full damn well that Obama was not a Muslim, and was using Minnesota’s Congressman Keith Ellison’s story (a black Muslim) and conveniently juxtaposing it on Obama, because they know that people stupid enough to think that this was true (even though the internet could disprove it in 2 seconds), were the same people who lacked the critical thinking skills to realize that not all black politicians are the same person…and they very well could find two black men to be interchangeable. I get viscerally angry when I see peoples’ ignorance exploited and turned into fear, particularly when the reason for so doing is to pump up an agenda of a vein of political thought which is only going to perpetuate ignorance and fear exploitation if they gain power.

Bottom line is, people can’t help being stupid…sure, they could do their homework, but they don’t. And the fact that there are so many of these mouth breathing troglodytes out there means that there will always be someone who can figure out how to exploit their ignorance. But when people do exploit that ignorance, they do it at the expense of a better world. We have the opportunity to level with these people…people uncritical enough to take what you tell them at face value in this day and age are dangerous if they are not told the truth. And it’s the fact that there are some forces out there so evil that they would put a rumor out there like this, knowing that this (cess)pool of humanity would believe it, that makes it utterly disgusting. So, I felt at the time that I heard this question that it was important (the same as Obama did) that whenever and wherever we heard information that was patently untrue, we owed it to the betterment of our nation to call bullshit on it. So this question as you can see was a hot button for many, for those who believed it, this was an acceptable way to express their fears which were founded on nothing but racism. For those who didn’t, it was a symbol of all of the lies told to foster a sense of otherness about the first person we actually WANTED to vote for since JFK (or in the case of people like myself who weren’t even born when JFK was around, for the first time EVER). The question itself could be a very innocent confusion of a recent political occurrence, and without that context, it’s easy to question why such a question would upset anyone. But given what America has gone through since 9/11 and the history of Obama’s rise to power, that was anything but an easily resolved misunderstanding. That question to me embodied what was truly at stake in this last election…are we as a nation going to continue down the path where lies and character assassination win elections, or for once are we going to collectively grow a pair of fucking balls and tell all the racist, ignorant motherfuckers to suck it?

And I’m happy to say, they’re sucking it hard, and I hope Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity suck it so hard they choke to death.

@dalepetrie- Might as well throw Glen Beck in there while you’re at it.

And the kitchen sink. Wow.

@dalepetrie Thank you. Fear is a great motivator, if not the best. When Eric Williams died in 1981, there was grief, for he was much respected and even loved. But there was also fear: Who we go put? He was our first Prime Minister, and had been at the head of government since 1956. We had absolutely no idea how the succession provisions in our young constitution were going to work. As it happened, they worked splendidly. Whatever happened behind the scenes, it was obvious that if there were any objections to Williams’ successor, they were very muted. In its obituary, the Times of London said that Williams’ greatest legacy was the way the succession occurred – peacefully. We had a government that was not going to play on people’s fears, at least not then.

whether or not you believe that saying,“my Muslim faith” was a honest slip of the tongue, or a Freudian slip…l believe that using the phrase, “I mean, these guys love to throw a rock and hide their hand” is far more telling…being that it is a common Muslim Proverb. To have both instances uttered in the same interview leaves me to wonder.

@p8prclip – OK, so I was able to do a Google search and find out that this quote was from an interview with George Stephanopoulos while Obama was campaigning but before he was elected, and he was speaking of how in politics, the name of the game is flinging mud without getting any of it stuck to yourself. But what I can not find anywhere is any list of Muslim Proverbs on which this saying appears. I can find the suggestion on right leaning opinion blogs that because we see Muslims literally throwing rocks, that this was somehow a “Muslim” reference.

So, what I would ask of you is that maybe you put a little context in your comments so people who are unfamiliar with the source of your quotes can know what you’re talking about, first of all….I did that part for you above this time as a courtesy because you seem to be new here. But the second thing I have to ask is that if you make statements that you present as fact, please provide a source to back them up. I would love to see something that states that what Obama said is indeed close enough to an actual Muslim proverb (not being Muslim, I do not know any Muslim proverbs, and I think many of us here would say the same), that there was no doubt he was using it as a Muslim reference, then perhaps I’ll believe that maybe there’s more to your ranting than simply rehashing old fear tactics and right wing talking points.

perhaps “Proverb” is overstated. I might have said “Muslim saying” My only knowledge of this phrase other than Obama saying it was from a Saudi man.

@p8prclip – again, cite the source, give me a link, something. By saying that your only knowledge of this phrase being used was that a Saudi man once said it, which means that Obama might be a Muslim would be like someone from Saudi Arabia saying that because another Saudi man they saw on TV once said something he’d only ever heard uttered by an American, ergo that person must be a Christian. We tend to like facts and logic on this site, not hearsay and conjecture.

When he used the phrase, and I questioned it; he told me that it was a common phrase from his country. I never claimed that Obama was a Muslim…I simply said it leaves me to wonder. I have the right to formulate an opinion based on facts and my experience. I will however take care to use more concrete sources in the future. My second day on this site and I’m already getting taken to the woodshed…sheesh!

You have every right to think what you want, I’m just trying to verify the truth of what you say. Kind of the way we do business around here….we love to hear all manner of opinion, but we like our facts supported. No offense intended, I just seek truth.

Understood! thanks:)

I think he took the oath with the Koran and Das Kapital secretly inserted into a hollow copy of the Buybull. ;-)