Maybe the point would be to remedy the situation and find a person who would miss one. If we accept failure at its first sign, we can never learn from it and learn how to defeat it.

The point would be to try and discover why you think no one would miss you.
• Is that just your perception? I might actually ask the people in my life this question.
• If you truly are all alone, why is that? Are you antisocial? Do you work so much there is little time to cultivate meaningful relationships? Are you inherently selfish?
• What is your expectation of this? If only one person were to miss you, would that be enough.

I have often said that only my wife and daughter would miss me. But deep down, when I’m not feeling sorry for myself, I know there are many more people who would miss me to some degree. Do I think my passing would devastate anyone? Not really.

In time, we are all forgotten. It’s just a matter of how much time and by whom.
Ultimately, doesn’t matter – you’ll be dead – so you’ll never know. For all I know, my wife might do a happy dance on my grave.

To change the answer to the question.

It is amazing how many people a person touches without knowing it. When my daughters high school English teacher committed suicide I am sure he was not thinking of the devastating effect it would have on my daughter. Her father and favorite uncle had both committed suicide fairly recently. He had talked in class about his struggle with depression and my daughter had bonded with him because she had a special sensitivity for his struggle. When he died she was devastated. Even today (at 28) she has huge abandonment issues. This guy didn’t have any idea how important he was to this little girl and what the impact of his choice was on her.

I would miss me

What coffeenut said.

Also my dogs would miss me. A lot!

the point of living beyond that moment is: to change your life from what it is to what you want it to be.

I experienced that very question, I now volunteer (handyman for poor and elderly, Photography, whatever I can do to help anyone who needs it) I make a favorable impression on anyone I meet (not that hard) smile at everyone, greet everyone. I am now impossible to replace in my spouses life, not that I wait on her hand and foot, just that I am the best I can be at everything I do in the Lords eyes.

One of the keys in my turning point is my simple, daily prayer. “Please Lord, guide me so that I may be perfect in your eyes”. That has been over 2 years ago and I now have a trainload of friends that will miss me when I depart and feel fulfilled and satisfied with my life.

I wish that everyone could be as such.

Living beyond that moment leads to another moment and another…..each ripe with possibilities…. New friendships to be made…...new joy to be found.

It’s not what happens to others after I’m dead that I think about, but who I matter to when I’m alive. When I feel worthless, of course, I can’t imagine mattering to anyone. When I don’t feel worthless, I can begin to see that some people care. I can’t tell you how important that is to me.

Many of the answers so far have been really really wonderful…

Anyways, another way to tackle the issue is to deal with the end of your question first…“what’s the point”..

I think if we can find something we truly believe in and work towards it..well, the meaning of life is the meaning we give it. I tend to find that the more my life slots into place the more confidence I have the more people enjoy my company and perhaps, the more they might miss me when Im dead (to be honest I don’t think much about after Im gone…). When I think back to when I hadn’t sorted myself out, I frankly don’t think I was a lot of fun to be around.

I also tend to think that sometimes when we can’t find ways to make ourselves happy, the easiest path to happiness is to help raise someone else off the decks (I sound like a Hallmark card). But seriously, it can help to help others or work for causes…at least while we’re having trouble sorting ourselves out. You tend to also meet dedicated people who are inspirations in themselves.

So perhaps thinking that there aren’t people to miss you really is just the symptom of a problem rather than any real problem in itself. You gotta look for the cause and be honest about it.

good luck!

I have felt that at some point in my life and it was a really depressing thought. However, you must remember two things:

1) many people will miss you that you don’t think will
2) you should still live your life for yourself
3) things can always change to the better, no matter how bad they seem at the time (and actually, the worse things are, the better they can get). It all balances out in the end, trust me :)

Simply playing devil’s advocate here…

@pekenoe: What if the person doesn’t want to go out of their way to involve themselves in other people’s lives just so theirs can feel more fulfilled? “I should push myself into other people’s lives just to fill the void I have in mine.” Why put that burden on others just to make oneself feel better?

@daloon: What if you feel as if you don’t matter to anyone even when you don’t feel worthless or sorry for yourself?

@Critter38: What if helping others doesn’t make you feel better but, in fact, makes you feel worse by knowing that their lives are now improved (thanks to your help) and your life is still in the same condition as it was when you set out?

As a minister, I have attended many funerals in my life, and I have never been to one where no one showed up.

Everyone has people who care about them, even if they do not know it.

@Sakata – I don’t think that would be the case if you actually tried.
Stagnation leads to depression in my experience.

If you force yourself to be more active you will find things that help you to feel more complete. You don’t have to force yourself into other people’s lives.

Start by finding a group or a class or a hobby that can be shared with others. Don’t expect any more from it than an hour or two of shared enjoyment. There are a lot of ways to get involved, but it does take some personal effort to get moving if you have been idle for a long time.

-Find a local group
-Take an art class, sometimes the very act of creating something helps
-Find a church or spiritual group and volunteer to do something
-Volunteer at a soup kitchen where there are truly needy people
-Get a dog and start walking in parks, talk to other dog owners while the pups sniff butts

No matter what you do, just start by focusing on the positive things that you can see.
Even if you find a few things a day that lift your spirit, it will help you to find a new direction. One of my favorite analogies is about a paper airplane.

If the airplane flies with it’s nose towards the ground, it will fall to the earth.
If the airplane files with it’s nose pointed upwards, it will rise on the currents.

Focus on the positive and, with practice, the negative will seem less important.

It’s never easy to dig yourself out of a pit, but it is worth it to see the sky and feel the sun again when you are out. If you are really too depressed to find the motivation in yourself, then maybe talk to a doctor. Vitamins or other remedies may help.

—-
Let it be seen that you are filled with universal love. When you meet a Persian or any other stranger, speak to him as to a friend; if he seems to be lonely try to help him, give him of your willing service; if he be sad console him, if poor succour him, if oppressed rescue him, if in misery comfort him. In so doing you will manifest that not in words only, but in deed and in truth, you think of all men as your brothers.
(Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 16)

Whatever the condition of your life at present, it is a temporary condition. Things always, always, change. The point is to see what comes next! When in the darkest of depressions, what comes next almost has to be an improvement.

@DrBill: What about the people who are at the funeral but really don’t want to be there? Just about everyone I’ve known, myself included, have had to go to funerals for people they either didn’t know or weren’t any part of their life. Granted, they were there because someone they did care about asked them to go and that person obviously cared, but how can the number of people who showed up to “pay their respects” be accurately counted with that factor involved? “20 people showed up but only 5 really wanted to be there. Poor guy dies and screws up a whole Saturday for 15 people.”

@fireside: If someone was depressed to the point that their motivation level dropped low enough to prevent them from participating in any activities, how (or why) would they go to the doctor? Generally going to the doctor would be after the acceptance phase. Maybe they’re not ready for Step 1.

Note: I’m not trying to run circles around anyone’s ideas, opinions, or suggestions. Nor am I intentionally shooting down everyone’s help. I’m simply attempting to play devil’s advocate for every possible scenario. I’m not the depressed, “nobody loves me” person the question is based around. I have, however, been that person in the past and I spent quite a few years living that every day. My intention with all of this is basically to have every possible suggestion/idea and countering question based on the idea that someone who is going through something like this can read it and see every angle.

I can’t thank all of you enough, up to this point, for your support. Great answers, great help, great concern. It’s felt and has not gone to waste. Just wish I had all of you around back when I needed you.

@Sakata : as you said there were the five who DID care that got the rest of them to go, so some did care.

To truly answer the question one needs to have eaten the fruit.

Those who have not can only speculate.

It is my wish that this be helpful also.

@Sakata, I believe that depression can obscure the answer to that question

@Sakata – my answer was based on my presumption that you were the person in question. If that was the case, then you would have already made an attempt to change by asking the question, thus the motivation would have been there.

If you were asking the question for someone else, be that person they need.

Since it was just a general question and you went through it, why don’t you share with us what helped you out of your depression? Maybe someone else will find this fluther and learn from your advice.

@Sakata: ”What if you feel as if you don’t matter to anyone even when you don’t feel worthless or sorry for yourself?”

That’s kind of tricky, because you can feel worthless without knowing that’s what’s going on.

Also, it’s a definitional issue. I suppose I’m guilty of a tautology. Isn’t feeling worthless the same as feeling like you don’t matter to anyone? If that’s the case, then, by definition, you can’t feel like you’re worth anything at the same time as you feel like you don’t matter to anyone.

I think what I’m trying to point out is that it is kind of a matter of relationships and internal moods. When our moods are down, it’s hard to build relationships, and also hard to believe anyone cares.

When we are up, we build relationships without even thinking about it. We have friends and family, and we don’t even question whether we matter.

And, unfortunately, if you are really down, and you know you don’t matter to anyone, they that’s exactly the question you ask: why go on? I don’t suppose you’d like to know about my dance with my eighth story window? I think I have the only in the office that opens. Sometimes I’m tempted to see if that opening is wide enough for a body to pass through. I’m pretty sure it is wide enough.

I think I have a pretty good handle on what it’s like to know that you don’t matter. I’d rather not go there again, thank you very much. However, when I was there, it really wasn’t my choice, and I presume that if I end up there again, I will be going kicking and screaming.

If the use of Lithium as a mood stabilizer hadn’t been discovered when it was, we wouldn’t be able to discove it today, due to laws about experimentation with human subjects.

@Everyone interested:

As I said, I’ve spent quite of bit of time in serious depression. Years in fact.
My marriage sucked. My kids hated me. Couldn’t keep a job. I really didn’t give a shit about anyone or anything at that point, and the fact was, because nobody cared about me or if that’s just how I perceived it to be, it didn’t matter anymore.

Right around the time I lost my last job (at the time) we separated and, eventually, divorced. My life, as I knew it, was over. Everything gone and I’m back living in a hotel room, for the week I could afford it, eating bread. I resorted back to the person I was years ago in the military. I became a bit more of an asshole (or some would have called it confident) and snapped out of things.
Got an apartment, a roommate, and A LOT of beer. Stayed drunk and, occasionally, high for a while (few months) until I reached the point of… well… fuck it. She and I started talking again until we eventually got remarried. Stopped doing drugs and quit slowed down on the drinking.
We were married for about a year or so before I finally snapped out of the 8 year long depression. Not really sure how this could help anyone else, but I basically had to lose everything in order to get it back. As far as the depression… I just noticed one day that it was gone.

@daloon: I still dip my toe in the depression pool from time to time so the part about “feeling as if you don’t matter to anyone even when you don’t feel worthless or sorry for yourself” is true on my part.

There are days that I absolutely LOVE being me. It’s a lot of fun. But I also know that most people can’t stand “me” when I’m being “me.” Basically, when I’m actually being myself other people don’t like me for very long. I have a tolerable time limit.

Damn that’s long. Sorry about all that.

@Sakata: would you mind describing what it’s like during those times when you love being you? What do you do? How does it feel inside your head?

When I’m just being myself? Well, it’s not usually very pleasant for others around me.

It’s those times when I’m “on a roll.” I love comedy in all it’s forms, and, even more, I love when I’m the source. The more someone is shocked, appalled, or offended the happier I feel. Equally, when my humor is at the level that anyone can laugh at it, and they do, I’m also ecstatic.

I’m a very selfish person. I don’t covet material things. I don’t want a friend’s hot wife. I just want attention. Good, bad it’s all the same. I’m like a child or a dog in that manner. After reading that you will understand the next part. The section about why I hate myself.

I’m a very selfish person. I can read a group (be it 1 person of 50) and play to them for my own attention-getting needs. However, if I read them wrong and fail then I go for the shocking, offensive things. Whatever works.
I will go out of my way to anger someone on purpose just for fun. Just for me. Religion’s an easy target. Your favorite band. Your new truck. Whatever works.
I get bored easily. Work, people, life; none of these are ever enough to hold my attention. When that happens I try to “shake it up” a little just for the entertainment value. This typically ends up with me in trouble in one form or another; lost job, lost friends, lost family. Whatever works.

So, basically, when I’m just being myself I’m very happy, but everyone else is either disgusted with me or they just don’t want to be around me. Both of those contradict my goal of being center of attention because ignoring me is the worst thing that can happen to me.

Just realized that I have no idea why I’m telling all of you this.

lol

Being raised in a house, where the attitude was, help others – that helps you help yourself, I gotta say I never really thought about needing others; however, being someone that has a disease that tends to kill people, I’ve learned that I need other people’s support. To me, though, it’s still more important the impact I can (positive impact) have on someone’s life. I never need to know, I do a lot of things without ever waiting to hear the outcome. (charity work – I’m of the school that it should be done without thanks, it is help others, not for the recognition)

My father died on January 3rd. There were more people at his service than we thought would attend, because we didn’t leave a lot of time for the service. My needed to move things along, it made it easier for her to deal with, also my father felt it important not to linger over this stage. Towards the end of the service, where we were talking to those that attended, this man stood in front of me, tears in his eyes telling me that I had a very good father, he was a good man. I had no idea who this man was, but his tears and tone was so sorrowful, I needed to know more. He told me that my father was just kind to him. He talked to him, when most others wouldn’t. He said no one had ever been kind to him, just to be kind and that he would miss his friend. I’m sad to say that with all the things going on, I can’t remember his name. I went through the guest book, I could place everyone – account for everyone, but not him. I have no idea where this man lives, where they would have met – but he knew three of my father’s favorite phrases, something you’d only know if you talked to him on many occasions. My father’s last job, he met and dealt with a lot of people. He could have met him in any number of places.

You truly never know how you touch other people.

we run a lot of parallels, I also hit bottom, but I sought external help from a mental health counselor and prescription drugs and rebounded quickly. I can do well now without the counseling but not the drugs. My life was either depressed or high, short attention span, wise ass, smart remarks. Similar to yours. The medication removed a lot of drive from my life but it has kept me married and happy and left me with an attention span that possibly covers centuries.

@Sakata: well, that was still not enough to tell me what I was looking for.

How were you diagnosed for depression? What meds were prescribed? What happened after the first drug you tried? The second? Etc.

Obviously, this is none of my business, so I don’t mind if you shoot me down, but if you feel like it, go ahead. I’m just wondering if it’s possible that you didn’t get the right diagnosis.

Last night, this guy told me a horrible story. He’d had all these symptoms, and so they decided he had a brain tumor. They actually operated, and the surgeon told him they’d removed the tumor. Years later, they had the samples looked at again, and there was no tumor. The surgeon was just covering his ass.

At that point, he went back to a psychiatrist, who took his history all over again, and finally decided he was bipolar. Now he’s taking a whole different set of meds, and it is working. But he and his wife went through thirty incredibly difficult years that they didn’t have to go through, if people had diagnosed him correctly the first time.

I’ve heard this tale so many times, that I always encourage people to check their diagnoses with other psychiatrists. Get a second and a third opinion. If they think it’s depression, and it’s really something else, the meds can make you much worse. It could be ADD, or OCD or bipolar or any number of other things.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of sloppy, or even bad mental health professionals out there. You have a better chance if you are knoweldgeable, and do some of your own research. Also if you’re in a group that shares information and experiences.

FWIW

@pekenoe & @daloon: On the wife’s advice (after we had gotten remarried) I went to a psychiatrist. His originally assessment was that I had ADD and mild OCD along with some depression. He put me on some pills (Paxil if I’m not mistaken) and I visited him anywhere from one a week to once a month.

My last visit with him was about 9 months later when I told him I wouldn’t require his services any longer. He was a good doctor and I liked him (which was rare.) In his final assessment he told me that he didn’t think I had OCD, wasn’t sure if I had ADD, and didn’t mention the depression. I asked him, “so how crazy am I?” He laughed and said, “you’re not crazy but you’re definately not normal.”

I know the Paxil worked. I could focus better, I wasn’t as hyper, my mood was always at a 0±. He told me most people don’t like them because it makes them feel as if they had no emotions, but that was the reason I loved ‘em. As I told him, I could see the funniest thing ever or watch a baby get hit by a car and either way my mood wouldn’t change. Don’t ask why (I don’t know) but for me that was great.

I decided to stop seeing him, and stop the drugs, when I felt I had reached a point in my life where I could take back over. The medicine got me through a hard part and helped me learn to cope. I don’t like taking pills daily and I hate being altered so that I’m not myself… even if it’s a self that others dislike.

Right or wrong there it is.

@Sakata Whatever your actual diagnosis may be, if you find you have symptoms (even a personality you’re not fond of) that make life difficult for you, there are many, many other medications out there that may help you. They don’t all make one feel robotic (though some certainly do). None of us like taking pills on a daily basis, but if you had a physical condition, you would certainly treat it, right? I take 8 pills a day, every damn day and I hate it. One literally keeps me alive, one keeps my kidneys functioning longer, 4 are for pain, and 2 are to keep my from killing myself or someone else. Those last two are anti-depressants. I was on several different types before I found the one that works for me. I just wanted to tell you all this so that if life becomes hard for you again, you won’t feel so hopeless. Never give up on yourself, ok?

Overall I’m content right now. Damn kids drive me nuts but only 12 or so years left with them then it’s smooth sailin’

lol

Wow… this whole thing really turned around and became a let’s-find-out-everything-about-Sakata-but-his-last-name kinda thing. Funny

Oh geez…you know it’s so tempting to ask your last name, now! ;)

lmao
How are you so sure you know my first?

I never assume! ;) (using html where I don’t need to use it—they make Fluther so easy!!)

Addicting Fun too lol

So, as long as we’re talking Pharmaceuticals, I take six different meds and nine pills each day. Some are for stomach, heart and arteries, and three are to, as augustlan says, keep me from killing myself. (God, I hate thinking about that!)

Lithium is a mood stabilizer that is good at keeping mania down, but isn’t so good at dealing with depression. Welbutrin is an antidepressant that helps with depression, but in my case, not enough. Lamictal is the latest addition, and I am just getting up to a full dose: it is another mood stabilizer, but is handles depression much better.

When I started, I, too, was worried about whether these things were keeping me from being myself. Now I feel much more like the self I remember, although I am very much changed by having this disorder, and by going though what I went through. Those experiences are something the drugs can not correct for.

I’m doing fairly well now, but I have a lot more to learn, and I am always on edge, wondering if mania or depression are coming back. The big change is that I have a different mission in life now. The change is both a curse and a blessing. It is one of the things that can throw me into a depression, but it is also something that could, in the future, make me feel very good about myself. We’ll see. I’ve tilted at windmills before, not getting anywhere. This could be yet another god damn windmill.

Great discussion, always helps to talk about it if you are a sufferer and will give some insight into our lives to those who don’t so that they might understand better.

The fear of losing my personality was a hard thing to overcome initially, but, it was either do that or lose everything else that made my life worthwhile. I tried different meds until I found one that was a good moderation and didn’t screw with my mind bad. I have now retained a portion of my old self but gained enough of the new to easily control the old.

as I am now, everyone I have contact with is happy to meet me, the wife just told me that her life revolves around me, life is good, hell….. life is great!

I look at the change in my life as this is what I should have been to begin with, not that I have lost something valuable. I do miss the adrenalin highs but not the depression lows, I earned my way as an artist for 15 years and the “rush” was what kept me going.

I will never be able to “handle” it without help, not a problem. I have no qualms and no regrets about asking and accepting the help that is vital to my wife’s happiness.

This has turned out to be a lot better than I ever thought it would.

@pekenoe: Hopefully you’re right and someone else with “issues” can trip onto this post and see that there are others with similar issues as they have. Maybe we can help. Or did.

@daloon: Did you change your avatar pic to your ass or is it the ass of someone else? Maybe it’s not an ass at all. Maybe it’s an armpit. Either way it keeps drawing me in and I’m pretty sure it’s an ass.

lol

@Sakata: not my ass. It turns out to be a feminine ass, which I didn’t realize when I first selected it, otherwise I would claim it as mine. It’s back due to popular demand (ok, Supermouse’s demand).

I don’t know how this was done, either in photoshop, or as an actual painting. It was probably done in Russia, so I doubt if there’s any way of finding out.

If you want to know more about my avatar.

Well if it a female ass then being “drawn to it” isn’t such an issue anymore.

lol

Yeah, I find it rather appealing, myself. I guess we don’t actually check out our own asses all that often!

@pekenoe – Somehow I never had the same fear about losing my personality. That aspect of my personality sucked big time and I don’t mind at all that Zoloft made it go away. In fact, once the Zoloft started doing its thing I felt like a normal person for the first time in years and was very sorry it hadn’t existed when I was a kid. A lot of pain and heartbreak could have been avoided if I had been on it back then.

lol, daloon’s avatar is an Ass-tlas

Darwin-I also, would that I had taken Lexapro (even if it wasn’t available back then) shortly after I was born. Wonder what a normal life would have been like for 53 years instead of the one I had. Tried Zoloft, not good, screwed with my mind big time. Prozac worked for a while, Lexapro has been the best fit for me.

@daloon: Wow, never knew Madagascar was the asshole of the Earth. Learn something new everyday.

@pekenoe – the fact that various meds do different things in different people to me is evidence that mental illness is far more complex than most people think. I strongly believe that a given symptom (ie. depression) may represent any one of a number of problems. Zoloft did not work for someone else I know but worked beautifully for me. Lexapro does nothing for me but helps my son.

Yea, as far as I know Paxil worked for me (even though I didn’t try any other types) and I know it works for my oldest son.

Can’t help but wonder how we all became members of the “Prozac nation” though. What happened? Did people have all these issues 100 years ago?

Sure they did…ever hear of Laudanum? Plus people with these types of problems were (and still are) prone to self-medication with all manner of non-prescription drugs (alchohol, pot, etc.).

Oh yea. Duh

lol

Always here to help :)

Prozac Nation… I wondered that too until I became a member.

Part of it may be the desire to live a “normal” life on the individuals part, but, if it were not for outside stimuli I’m not sure a Bipolar/depressed individual would seek help. They are mostly happy with themselves, they’re a royal pain in the ass to the people they love though.

The outside stimuli (largely divorce) 100 years ago did not exist. With the womens movement there has been a huge change in the relationship between a man and a woman. In years past, she shut up and sat in the corner, no matter what the situation was. It simply was not a womans place to complain, so the main stimuli to seek help did not exist.

I feel a bit insulted.

oh well, I don’t care

i think the obvious next step would be to find someone who would. that seems like it would give your life more of a point than you would have had before. i mean, that’s a big goal. or maybe to improve yourself.

Before there was Prozac Nation there was alcoholism, suicide, and running off to the frontier (or another country) where the runner might or might not survive. There was also a lot more acceptance of “one’s lot in life.”

@Blondesjon: Why do you feel insulted?

I’m in the “you never know how many you’ve touched” camp. Someone you don’t even know about may be aware of you for some reason that you would never suspect.

There was an old guy on crutches and in a navy blue pea coat that I used to see hanging out near the subway station. He was always alone, and he looked hungry and cold. Nothing ever passed between us, never a word or gesture, probably never even eye contact, but I was aware of him and thought about him and for a time even fantasized about taking him home and feeding him and offering him a warm shower. One day he was gone, and he never returned. I was smitten by a sense that I ought to have helped him somehow, just out of ordinary humanity. The pangs of conscience I felt caused me to become more open-handed with street people after that.

I am fortunate in many ways, the important ones to me anyway. I have the need to touch others lives and leave a positive footprint.

Where I live is rural, people know most everyone after a few years. Doors are left unlocked, vehicles are left running at the store if it’s cold. Trust is now something to be earned though, the cities have affected how people think and we have only lived here for a couple of years.

I struggled for a few years trying to understand my purpose in life. What was the reason I had been pulled back from death several times?

I believe I have found my calling, I volunteer as a Handyman a day or two a week to do minor repairs and maintaining primarily for elderly residents. It gives my life more purpose, fills a need, and I get to meet the neatest people in the world. I raise a large garden to share, and I am always available if a neighbor needs a hand.

One of the benefits is, that I touch a lot of people’s lives in a positive way, my previous concern (and I was concerned) about no one showing for my funeral is one less thing I have to worry about.

I am…... one of the most content, happy, carefree, satisfied people in the world.

And, I admit, not afraid to toot my own horn a bit.

As a footnote, I would love to see the Handyman branch out to other communities, I’m sure we all have more than one individual in our neighborhood that is handy in home repair with time on their hands. I am reimbursed for gas money, nothing more. I furnish tools, vehicle, labor and some materials. Any donations we may receive from my work is pooled into a material fund for future tasks.

@pekenoe, it’s a formal program of some kind? Can you point to more information?

@Jeruba Formal?? Not quite sure I’d call it that, but it is an actual program that I initiated as a complimentary branch of our local RSVP (Retired & Senior Volunteer Program).

The only information available is from me or our local RSVP office, 2 workers (Idell and Rita 406–433-2207 ask for RSVP). No web sites or anything like that. We’re kinda in the boonies, way out in the boonies.

If you have any questions about it, please do not hesitate to bombard me with them or give Idell or Rita a call, I’d love to see it expand.

@pekenoe, I see. Thanks, it sounds great. From the way you alluded to it, it seemed like you expected people to recognize it.

You might want to ask the moderators to take the names and phone numbers out of that posting on this globally accessible website and invite interested people to contact you privately.