Well, it seems to me that most of the decent girls are too.

Well, I’m going back on the market, so….

:)

Dating and real estate have a lot in common:

Location, location, location!

Because we already found someone great. Sorry!

(snark)

Hello? Decent guy right here. Women say they want a decent guy, but they really want an exciting bad-boy, who they’ll then try to change into a decent guy (but it usually doesn’t work).

All depends on what you think is a descent guy, this is a pretty subjective question. I was married once, and it did not last long. Now that i am not married does not mean i am not a descent guy!! :)

Well, if you are the marrying kind there is a good chance you are married or committed by age 30. So the people left over either are hesitant to marry or have something about them that has not encouraged a long term committment. But this is a huge generalization of course. There are plenty of people who are married who suck. And, mostly I believe that if someone has not married at a youngish age, they simply have not found the right person yet. Really there are so many reasons. When I think of my friends who are over 35 who never married (all female) many of them have been in long term relationships just never pulled the trigger on marriage. But, they all seem to pursue the wrong men in my opinion.

@SpatzieLover There is some truth to your statement I think.

@JLeslie In my village there aren’t any young, singles. It would be older divorcees or widows/widowers. In the city, just the opposite. I think people tend to look for a date in odd locations, too. I mean, really, if you don’t drink or dance why go to a club unless you want to hook up? I know this was/is the trouble with single friends. They think the perfect man/woman will fall out of the sky. When I suggested to one that he date someone from either the hospital he works at or the neighborhood he lives in he quipped back that it would be “too complicated” if it didn’t work. How would you know unless you try it?

It’s because after we marry them we straighten them up. So the single women want a man who’s already been worked on. But little do they know they have to put in the work themselves. ~

I figured out where all the decent guys hang out AFTER I met my husband. I used to go with him and ride the cart when he went golfing. If a girl likes to golf she can find plenty of decent guys. A lot of them are probably single because their wife’s didn’t like being golf widows, but if she golfs…..
(I have seen some of the most beautiful golf courses in the world and rarely pulled a club out of the bag. I loved going with my hubby when he used to golf.)

This is probably an age old question that will never be answered entirely.

There are a lot of decent men out there but life is of a basic cycle which goes like this:

mid 20’s= relationships
late 20’s= marriages
early 30’s= debauchery
late 30’s= relationships/re marriages
early 40’s= debauchery for those not already deemed by the rest of society to be non existent.

If they’re not married, they’re immature. :P

Clarification: Not all married guys are mature. Nor are all unmarried guys immature, that is simply the trend… not grown up enough to settle down.

@avvooooooo So that’s my problem, i always wondered what it was :p

quite!

@avvooooooo i know what ya meant, i was just having a little go at ya! to be honest most men never mature, they will always be immature in some way..

@daloon…...I just read this. I have to ask…why? Are you looking for one?? LOLLLLLLL

@jbfletcherfan Oh yeah. Now that would solve all my problems! ;-\

Maybe the more decent men/women are just taken sooner so there are less of them available by the time people are ready to settle down?

Because we’re decent, Hello?

I think there are to many variables in this equation :)

I am in fact guilty of letting this phrase escape my mouth every now and then… and my answer to myself is simply to say… (hey!!! @proXXi that implies single people aren’t decent does it not???? hmmm) he’s still out there…and he’ll get a divorce by the time he meets me and I might actually be ready for a relationship… perhaps… that’s one version anyway…

I’m not suggesting that there are no decent singles. I’m just offering why they are rare and hard to find.

I think some of it is to do with location. There are approximately 81 single men per 100 single women in NYC, and once you take out everyone who is gay, too poor to marry or not looking to marry of both sexes, it’s just not looking good for the women. The ratio is still very skewed.

Now, personally, I know I wasn’t in a position to be married over a great swath of my adult life. I wouldn’t have wanted to subject any man to my issues. But those issues are becoming less and less a part of my life, and I feel once I’m in that place where I’m completely good enough for myself and love myself enough, he’ll show up.

If he doesn’t, then I’ll want to be fine with it. I know I’m not there yet because I’ve been frustrated with the men I’ve met lately, and that has something to do with my own insecurity still, I’m sure.

Although, I daresay over the course of my life, I’ve seen a lot of people get married, young and old, and wondered, Do they not see the train wreck coming? two or three years before the Nuclear-Level-Event divorce.

@daloon LOLLLL…. well, I just HAD to ask. ;-) I agree. Just what you need.

it’s the what-what-you-can’t-get complex, for sure.

You wouldn’t realize they were decent until they got married so..

They are not. I know more loser husbands than decent ones.

@tinyfaery I have heard the same thing, so like i said i think there are just to many variables to answer this properly as it’s a personal preference kind of thing imho.

I know a lot of decent guys who are not married.

I just found an image that accurately conveys my feelings on the subject.

A lot of people define “good” men and women by externalities. I you define them as reliable, kind, loving, happy, sharing and caring there are lots of them around. If you define them as rich, tall, classically handsome/beautiful they are all hiding in a book of fairy tales.

Ok, let me put it this way, there are no “perfect” men out there, like stated above this is stuff of myth, and one of the main reasons is because we as human beings are flawed in one way or another. No woman/man is perfect i don’t care what you say, now are there people out there for you and that you are completely compatible with? i would say yes. I don’t think there is such a thing as To Picky, being picky is the way to be but sometimes you have to over look small flaws because everyone has them. I will probably be single for a long time but because i am picky, and i always fall for the wrong girl for the wrong reasons.

@OutOfTheBlue too picky= single 4 life

@SpatzieLover I know i know, but it’s really not as bad as it sounds, like for example, this time around if it does happen i want to be more thorough with my choice, it’s always been something in the past with either liars, psychos, cheaters or other things that i just will not tolerate this time. I probably should have been more specific in my reply.

It is an interesting question, because I have heard many men say the same thing about women. Maybe people meet the “jerks” of the opposite sex more often because they are the confident individuals who actively meet people.
I honestly don’t know, this is probably one of those questions that will never have a satisfactory answer.

I’m not married…

I have to agree with @SpatzieLover in that if you live in NYC, LA, SF, or another large metropolitan area, there are plenty of smart, attractive, interesting people – as long as you put some effort into looking, and/or have built a great social network. On the other hand, if you live in Des Moines, be prepared to “settle down” by 25 (or earlier).

@hungryhungryhortence And I thought my 30’s debauchery was just my particular skill and group of friends. Thanks for crushing that bit of ego ;-)

The good ones are taken because they are indeed good, and the smart ladies who have them don’t let them go so easily. OR….maybe it’s because we were too busy going after the bad boys in our early twenties that we didn’t notice the sweet ones earlier…

You’ve been misinformed, @daloon. All the decent guys are gay.

The women looking for decent men outnumber the decent men of the world 2 to 1. I, however, had more than my fair share, having been married to decent men three times.

I think I’m reasonably decent, I cook, clean, don’t cheat or beat on women, am gay… just don’t ask my ex’s.

I’m certainly going to be painted as a chauvinistic asshole, but here’s my personal philosophy:

- There are a set amount of “decent” men and women. About equal.

- Decent men go out on search for the incredibly hot, out-of-their league girls.

- Decent women go out in search for bad-boy, asshole types.

- Decent men give up search.

- Decent women are put in shittier and shittier predicaments with these “bad-boy” types. They wonder why men are such disrespectful, cheating assholes.

- Decent men go through lonely period.

- Decent women give up search, and proclaim that men are pigs.

- Decent men wisen up and search for slightly younger, slightly older or women who didn’t go through the whole “bad-boy” phase women. They marry, and are happy.

- Decent women go through lonely period. Wonder why there aren’t any good, honest men around.

- Decent men are married, are happy, and are in love.

- Decent women are miserable, and hate men. They never realized that they were looking in the wrong places, that if they were a bit more giving, decent men were around – they just never gave them the time of day. But not anymore. The decent guys are married.

~ fin

Uhh…no.

Engaging.

@Grisaille seconded!

@Grisaille you might have something there! ;-) are you a bad boy by any chance? lol

So stereotypes that say women are destined to be bitter and alone are correct? Geesh! That is not my experience at all.

I do think @Grisaille has some valid points, it just does not apply to everyone, like any generalization. As I said above the women I know who are still not married at 40 and beyond, but say they want to be married, generally I feel they are attracted to the wrong type of guy. Almost all of them care a lot that the guy is muscular and better than average good looking. I mean if you ask what do you look for in a guy they many times start with the looks. I am not saying all good looking men are assholes, but that should not be the main focus, and I do kind of stereotype men with big muscles to be to obsessed with outward looks, so that is a turn off to me.

But hell, some of it is luck. When I got married I was 25. I had been dating my husband for 2 years and I realize now anything could have happened. We luckily have grown together, but it is difficult to know at 25 how a spouse is really going to deal with difficult times, there is no way to predict what is going to happen in life. I think as women get older they get less tolerant of imperfections in others, especially if they have been in bad relationships previously. They will not be taken advantage of or used again. so the older you get the less likely you are to take the leap of faith into marriage I think.

Now that I am in my early 40’s and have been married for over 16 years I see how my married friends and I are different than my single and divorced friends. Many of my single friends perceive us married women as giving up our own life, identity, or being with a man who does some things that are objectionable (I am not talking about lying and cheating, just little things) they have little tolerance. My happily married friends and I love being married even though there are some things in our spouse that bother us. We seem to focus more on the big picture, the give and take of a relationship.

@tinyfaery It’s a generalization. I even prefaced the entire thing by saying it’s a pigish, chauvinistic and rather crass outline. Why do you take these things to heart? It is just a subjective, personal observation, nothing more.

If you are willing to meet me halfway and argue the points, then I’d be more than happy to accept those and offer my rebuttal. Saying “Uhh…no” does not progress the discussion at all. I understand full well that it’s flawed, and I’d actually like you, or anyone else, to point those flaws out. That is the purpose of Fluther, to share ideas.

@JLeslie Agreed fully. You bring up an interesting point with:

“I think as women get older they get less tolerant of imperfections in others, especially if they have been in bad relationships previously.”

I don’t think that is exclusive for women, however. I think everyone becomes more and more jaded in life, regardless of prior relationships, experiences, etc. – but I suppose that’s most true in areas outside of love. I will submit that as men get turned down more and more, they start getting helpless and more pathetic… hahaha.

@lynneblundell Me, bad boy? AHAHAHAH * hack, cough * ...ha

@JLeslie Your evidence is just as anecdotal. I try to avoid generalizations like the @Grisaille made.

@Grisaille I have no need or desire to debate you. I just let my opinion be known.

@Grisaille Yes, true for men also, I agree.

@tinyfaery I agree anecdotal, I am just talking from my experience. I said it is a generalization that does not apply to everyone. I think it is ok to talk about these type of observations, not as science, but as a means of discussion and learning. I am sure there are plenty of women and men who do not fit what @Grisaille and I said. It is difficult to be scientific about behavior, it is subjective for the most part, anecdotal.

Having always been a person who has to be in a relationship, I can’t understand how people remain single. I have my theories, of course.

One is that they expect to find the perfect man (or woman). They have bought into this myth of happily ever after. They believe in “soul mates.” They’ve heard their friends complain about their guys, and they start saying that they will hold out for the right guy. No reason to just “settle.”

I don’t know if people with this point of view understand how marriage requires constant negotiation and compromise. Very few of us (if any) end up with someone who perfectly agrees with us on everything.

I believe that all relationships are made. None are perfect from the start. I believe that there are many people out there we can love. All we have to do is decide that we want to partner with this person, and even if love isn’t there are first, it will come along.

But most people believe in romantic love. They want the fireworks. They want the soulful gazes and the wild, incredible, totally unbelievable sex like no one else in the world has ever had. If it’s not there, they don’t think love is possible.

I guess I think that if you have this point of view, you probably aren’t serious about wanting a relationship, deep underneath the stuff you say. I guess I trust actions more than words. If a person is not in a relationship at age forty, then they really don’t want it. It’s not that hard. If you wanted one, you’d have it. Those lines about decent men being hard to find are just excuses they use to fool themselves into believing the socially acceptable thing.

@daloon I think there is a difference between people who want to be single, and those who want to be married but complain they cannot find the right person. In my comments and generalizations I was only referring to the latter.

well you can lump me in the ’‘I’m not settling’’ category on the basis that I do understand that no-one is perfect and that there does need to be compromise in a relationship, but I really just haven’t found that certain someone – I’m fine with that… I do really quite like being on my own so I’m not complaining… I probably do have rather high standards but that’s cool too..cause the man that will want to be with me…will too…and it might not necessarily have to ‘end’ or ‘peak’ in marriage

@lynneblundell I have a couple questions if you are willing to answer.

Have you ever been married?

Do you know specifically what you are looking for in an SO? Or, are you really simply not looking at all?

No I have not

I have certain things that I’m looking for and certain things that I won’t tolerate. I’m not actively dating…I don’t believe necessarily looking for it will make it turn up. I have a lot going on in my life to try to find someone to be a companion and I also recognise that right now at this time in my life I need to focus on loving myself after years of deprivation. I don’t think anyone would find me ready for them yet…that doesn’t stop me dreaming though :-)

@lynneblundell So when you say dreaming, do you mean dreaming about a relationship in the future?

yes I guess so

@lynneblundell I had a list of things I wanted in a hsband before I got married and I have to say my husband fit it pretty well, and actually had qualities I love that I had not even thought of. I think it is good to have a list of requirements, it means you are less likely to get caught in a relationship that is not good for the long term. My list had what I was looking for, I wonder if people who are “picky” have a list of what they definitely don’t want? They they are watching out for the negative?

Sounds like you are not making yourself available right now, that it is not a priority for you, nothing wrong with that.

@JLeslie ; My daughters kept a similar list in their wallets for years before they were married!.

@daloon, I don’t think it is quite that simple. I have been single my entire life, granted, I am only 22. But I don’t agree that if I wanted a relationship I could just “have one”, snap my fingers and it would happen.
I am single because I have serious trust issues and I have a fear of intimacy. It doesn’t mean that I don’t want a relationship, I do, but I don’t know how to allow myself to have one.
I also want to hold out for the right guy, I will not settle. And while I agree that there are people who have a fairy tale mentality when it comes to love, there is a difference between that fantasy and settling. I don’t want to settle for a relationship that doesn’t make me comfortable and happy. I understand that you can’t always be happy in a relationship there is always compromise, BUT, I will not be with someone that I don’t “fit” with. If I can’t be honest and comfortable talking to them then it won’t work.

But I really think there is more to people not being in a relationship other than the assumptions that they just don’t want to have a relationship or that they have unrealistic fantasies.

Wasn’t there a “deal breaker” question some time ago? I can’t just date and marry any old guy who wants it. What if he’s a habitual liar? What if he sees women on the side? What if he doesn’t have a job and has no ambitions? What if he holds my bio-family’s status against me (which I had one bf do)?

Also, I meet plenty of men who think I’m physically attractive, but then when they see we can’t hold a conversation because we are coming from two vastly different worlds or we have such deeply differing values that sexual attraction wouldn’t be enough, then what? Stick around and hope? No, that doesn’t work.

When I was 26, my “surrogate” mom, bless her, tried to set me up with a 55-year-old patrolman. He was a Baptist churchgoer. I wasn’t and am not. He wanted to live in Jamaica, Queens. I didn’t and don’t. He was the sort of guy who ate poorly, didn’t exercise, and didn’t read. Plus, he was old enough to be my father! So why did Mummy try to hook us up? He’d heard of Nirvana and she knew I loved that band. Also, she thought I should be married to someone who’d support me. She didn’t know that he hadn’t made detective or sergeant or anything and his salary wasn’t going to support us both even if we had hit it off. :/

I’ve been in several long-term relationships, one where the guy was going to ask me to marry him, and I headed him off at the pass because I was still in college. Frankly, each one was better than the one before, and each had different issues than the one previous, so I feel as though I’ve grown from those experiences. I expect the next serious one to be even better and closer to what we’re both looking for. There’s no age limit on that.

I think I said that there are many potential partners out that, not that you can partner with anyone. I believe that I could easily fall in love with at least a dozen of the women here, if they were interested and I were available. The pull is strong. I don’t know if other people would call it love. In fact, I think many would think it is mere lust.

It isn’t. How could it be? Do you lust after an avatar? How could you? No, it’s about personalities and the kinds of problems each of you faces, and maybe it’s just about my nature. I tend to see the good in people—the talent; the problems they face; the way they face these problems.

I seem to end up with a yearning for some of the people whose questions I answer. There are people I seem to resonate with. Maybe it’s that I try to empathize with people; try to put myself in the story they are telling. I don’t know. But it ends up that I care about them. Caring is a lot like loving, I think. But when the conversation starts, and I get back their caring and their wisdom, and the fact that they choose to honor me with it—I get kind of lost.

Of course, I swallow it up, and try not to let it out. It’s not appropriate, for one thing. For another, even if I were single, I would be too timid. For a third, it’s probably just craziness.

In any case, it seems so easy to fall in love. It seems like there are so many wonderful women out there. But that kind of thing would scare women, I think, even if I did pass their screening test. So it’s good that I’m not looking, but if I were, and if I were not in a relationship, it would because the woman wasn’t interested, not because I was too picky.

Since it seems so easy for me, I don’t understand why it is hard for others. I think I’ve been a pretty good judge of character over my life. I have never been burned for stupid reasons, except for the first time. It’s always been because of very understandable reasons related to personalities or circumstances.

So is it relationship skills? Is it pickiness? Is it willingness to jump in? Is it need? Is it lack of trust? Maybe it’s that I am a good judge of character, and so I trust my judgment, but others have misplaced their trust too many times, and they no longer trust themselves.

I am interested as well to hear the answers to the questions @daloon put forth in is final paragraph above.

I never felt like I settled. I don’t think we are saying to settle. My relationship with my husband progressed like the most natural thing in the world. We met, found we had things in common, enjoyed being with each other, made each other smile, respected each other, found each other interesting, wanted to be together all of the time, wanted to be together all of the time, wanted to be together all of the time. The next logical step seemed to want to be married. I never got cold feet. So, are the people who want to be married, but don’t do it, staying with the wrong guy too long, actually doing the opposite of what people accuse them of and tolerating too much crap? Not being picky enough? So they are in relationships that are not good ones, wasting time so to speak? And, then burnt out on relationships as a result.