I think their ignorance is child abuse on the children they probably have.

I think these people haven’t read the facts about gay parenting.

I think these people have no clue how many children in the US are desperate to find a forever family. I used to work for a Catholic adoption agency specializing in children above the age of 6. We welcomed gay parents!

@SarasWhimsy Very cool

I think (not wanting to break the pattern in the posts, here) I have no idea how people come to conclusions like this, where the logic is. I would like very much to sit down with them to try to figure out how their heads work.

Many people are very frightened, they know not what of, when it comes to these issues, and that makes them ineducable. Luckily, they have no real voice in the issue. All they can do is natter on the sidelines.

I don’t think about them. I try not to let these kind of people enter my thoughts, since it tends to throw me into apoplectic rage.

I think people with a belief like that don’t need to any child’s parents

People who hold those types of views have no business parenting. They would probably turn their kids into self righteous whack jobs and the world has enough of them. I am so sick of people like this.

I have heard people argue that having two same sex parents is bad for children because kids need a mother and father, but I have never heard that gay adoption was abusive. Really, I don’t understand the logic at work in either argument. Given a choice between a life in the system and a home with two loving, same sex parents, most kids would probably choose the latter. It’s cruel for people to argue against gay adoption because many children (especially older ones) have limited opportunities to leave the system, anyway, and opposing gay adoption limits their options even further.

I think saying that is homophobic in the extreme.

It’s just their opinion. I personally think that a child’s opinion should be considered if it’s at all possible when it comes to adoption. The actual parents should definitely have a say as well.

I think people who say gay adoption is child abuse are narrow-minded and ignorant. I think they are proud of their convictions because they think having those convictions makes them righteous. They are strongly opposed to any logic that defies those convictions because they fear losing their self-importance.

It all makes me rather nauseous.

It’s love that matters, not gender. The people who oppose gay adoption as child abuse undoubtedly think that forcing religious indoctrination on children is not child abuse.

I would want to know more about why they think gay parents adopting a kid is abusive. Is it because of what they fear the child will be taught? Or that the child will be denied access to people with different ideologies? Or that if the child later “comes out” as a different orientation, they will be disowned? Or…what? Once the answers for these questions are found, one could easily construct an argument saying that adoption by people with the view expressed in the question is abusive on the same counts.

@laureth One of the reasons I have seen is the children may turn gay. I think people are born gay and it is not usually a choice. Even if that was the case, there is nothing wrong with gay people. So therefore I don’t see that as a logical reason.

Exactly. I mean, straight parents give birth to, or raise, gay kids now and then. ;)

@laureth Exactly. I haven’t seen much else of a reason except for children need a “mom” and “dad”

If that’s the case, then single people adopting would also be “child abuse.” Methinks there must be more of an agenda there than just “OMG, think of the children!”, @dutchbrossis. Something more like the hope that gay people will be even further marginalized in society, at least.

a loving home is way better than foster care or an orphanage.

@laureth Exactly what my husband said when I told him what they were saying about single parents.

Children don’t “turn” gay any more than they “turn” autistic. People who believe otherwise need a lesson in modern genetics.

I have heard objections to interracial adoption based on “confusing identity” or some such. Equally rubbish.

@stranger_in_a_strange_land I have no clue where people get these ideas

Such opinions are fear and ignorance based and from fear and ignorance nothing good comes.

@pdworkin Unfortunately, people like this form into political pressure groups and do ultimately have a say, at least in some places. People like James Dobson spreading their homophobic filth have large followings.

On the fringe. This crap can’t last. The upcoming generations don’t care about sexual orientation; they all have gay friends. Change is inevitable.

@pdworkin I hope that you’re correct. These hatemongers get a lot of air time in rural areas, so maybe my perception is is bit on the pessimistic side.

I hope @pdworkin is correct also. My thing is I think that the upcoming generations will be more accepting. The thing is that they are raised by this generation so it worries me that this generation will still pass on the dis approval of it

I think anyone of that opinion is hateful in the extreme.

Please don’t take what I’m going to say personal. First let me say that I have no problems with gays adopting children. Lets face it. Many americans adopt babies from other countries and our children go from foster home to foster home and I call that abuse. But in just speaking in terms for a child, I have to ask this. Marriages for gay people have not been fully established. One moment its legal and then its not. Only one parent gets to adopt the child and if they split than the other parent can be banished from that childs life.
Second, children can be cruel to each other. Some from traditional homes will be confused and lash out at the adopted child and be made fun of. Yes we all go through that as children but do you want to be the child with that extra burden. I say this because I saw a documentary once about a children who actually had a traditional home and dad decided he was a woman trapped in a mans body. He however loved his wife and now the children had two moms sort of. Yes, I know its not the same, but I remember the kids saying they get made fun of at school. They were young in grade school. They said they loved their dad but wished it was like before because life was simpler. You could see how sad they were. Now I know changing your sex is totally different but the ridicule they would get isn’t different. So is it fair to put children though a social mine field? I wish things weren’t like that but the reality is that, it is. I’m just playing devils advocate so don’t chop my head off.

@Pandora I would think the parents should help the kids realize that others are just mean who make fun of them because of their parents.
@laureth Pandora reminded me of one of their reasons, kids getting made fun of.

I think that if the parents are good that can help the kids become stronger and realize that there is no problem with their home and that the ones making fun of them are just mean

I think they’re just people with absolute culture and mind,since I live in Islamic dominated country every issues would be solved in religion(Islamic) absolute way,that’s the best way according to what they believed,I don’t like this way even for holiness reasons. I think anyone could be a parent as long as he/she(included gay) is able to care and sustain his/her adopted child,but what can we do?,something like this would be branded as taboo and unworthy in my country and would be processed in religion way by government or by citizens.

@dutchbrossis, These parents where doing there best to help their children, however children would rather have the simplest way. Make it all go away. I remember my son got made fun of in school for being smart. He knew kids where just jealous and mean and petty but he would still feel hurt. Now luckily he didn’t have adults to make fun of him or his self esteem would be in the toilet. But a child of gay children may suffer predjudice from adults as well. Self esteem for a child is very delicate. There are adults who don’t know how to handle prejudices. How is a young child to do that?

I don’t think much at all about such people.

@Pandora A lot of times children can impress us. The children need to be taught how to handle prejudices because they are everywhere. I would think the children adopted by gay parents could find a few people that would help them deal with all the prejudices. When I was a kid I was made fun of a lot for things, didn’t have many friends. I only had a couple friends. I am glad now that is the way it was because I don’t like the thought of having a lot of not true friends vs 2–3 true friends is way better and has helped me a lot.

Hey I was a picked-on fat kid with straight parents. Some kids just have to deal.

And I was an autistic kid who had to learn to use his fists, which I did.

Ok, so lets say you have 10 set of parents who want to adopt and one set is a gay couple. So how do you decide which child will have to deal? Being heteralsexual would never guarantee you a child for adoption. That is why so many don’t fish in this pond. There are criterias that couples must pass to adopt. Adoption agencies aren’t suppose to be for the loving parent to be. They are suppose to look out for the best interest of each child and criticsize every part of your life till they are sure you can provide, not only a loving home but a secure, stable, and safe enviroment, where the childs only concern should be, being a normal kid. Not having to fight social issues at school. So do you settle for little Billy because its better than nothing. People are turned down for adoptions every day. It took years for mixed couples to be acceptable by society and then kids adopted off to them. Its going to take years for gay marriages to be considered the norm. I’m not against it, I just don’t think the time is right yet.

Too late. It’s already happening, all around you.

@Pandora I see.

@pdworkin Hopefully more and more will become accepting to it also, then more children can have loving homes.

Seriously ignorant and misguided. Or else, scum.

I think perhaps they don’t know what actually constitutes abuse.

@Pandora – I see what your saying. Kudos for bringing up the obsticles on this sensitive subject.

As far as my opinion about such people is that there is just a whole lot of ignorance or external influence telling them it’s wrong.

I don’t see how adopting someone can be considered abuse. It’s a sign of love and nothing more. Whether some people may actually be abusive as parents or whether they adopt for reasons other than love, is an entirely different issue which I suspect has absolutely nothing to do with their sexual orientation.

@Pandora and @dutchbrossis – I was the kid that was picked on for having a lesbian mom. Yes it was bitter and horrible, but I don’t think abuse coming from outside the family is the same thing as “child abuse” from within the family.

It made me who I am today, though, just the same as anyone’s hard knocks makes them who they are.

@laureth Do you see now today that it really is just their problems for picking on you and not yours ?

@dutchbrossis – Oh, totally. I won’t say I’m unscathed, though, because it made me misanthropic. :)

Would you have chosen to switch to “normal” parents because of being made fun of ? Or are you happy with how it turned out ?

@dutchbrossis – I wouldn’t choose to be anything other than me.

@laureth That is good.

Good to know Laureth. :)

Oh, sorry, I didn’t read all your threads.” Oh, totally. I won’t say I’m unscathed, though, because it made me misanthropic”. Shouldn’t that be something that adoption agencies should be concerned with. (not saying every child would react the same) But why would they want to take the chance of a child hating society because they were put in a situation where the child had to fight these battles that was not theirs to fight. There is no doubt you love them. I’m sure they loved you and made you feel special and wanted and were good parents, so how could you ever want to replace them. But if you had a child to give away for adoption to two equally loving parents and one was gay and the other not, would you put that child through the same thing knowing that its more likely they will go through the same thing? As a parent, yes, my hard times made me who I am, but I want better, not the same for my children. Whatever I can do to make their life better. No parent is perfect, I know that, but I think the issue is more about children. I believe gay or straight have the same potential for raising a great kid or a messed up kid, but as you’ve explained yourself, you didn’t come out unscathed from being picked on. On the flip side though, I’m sure you may have had that same problem if you went from foster home to foster home.

@Pandora – do you think the only kids that have it hard are the children of gay parents? If you decline to let them adopt on those grounds, we also need to decline adoption to any parent that has a drinking problem, or lives on the poor side of town, or who will ever lose a job, or relocate, or make their kid wear ugly sweaters, or feed them too much, or feed them not enough, or… you get the idea. We’d have to let only Perfect Middle Class Parents With One Dog, One Cat and a White Picket Fence adopt children, and there aren’t enough of those.

My point is that all families, all kids, have something hard about their lives. If Dad loses his job, the kid has it hard. Etc. I don’t think anyone gets through life “unscathed.”

For what it’s worth, I was in a foster home for a while, because my straight grandparents and straight aunt and uncle sued mom for custody, saying that a lesbian isn’t fit to be a mother. Apparently, they thought that bouncing from “Children’s Village” detention center to a foster home through the court system was a much friendlier way to raise a kid than with her own single lesbian mother. Bollocks!

@laureth Damned straight (no pun) and Ward and June are not available.

@laureth If you read through everything I wrote, I wasn’t saying that a straight parent is better or than a gay parent or that even the perfect middle class family exist. And I agree that bouncing from foster home to foster is not any kind of solution either. All I’m saying is that the subject isn’t so black and white as people will like to pretend. Its not just about loving a kid or just finding a home. There are external issues that will effect this child. I’ve known of good foster parents who would be denied adoption simply because they didn’t earn enough. Or a single person wanting to raise a child who would also be denied. Agencies consider lots of things. I’m not saying they are always right because I’ve seen some real doozies over the years but I think for the most part they try for what they think is in the childs best interest and not what an adult, single, married, straight or gay want.

For another point, I think the hell (if any) that a kid will catch for gay parents varies from place to place. I was beat up and spit on as a kid and asked if my “lezzie mom messed with me when she tucked me in.” But now when I tell people that my mom is gay, I get a lot of positive reactions, like “You must be a really open-minded, well-rounded person!” and “No wonder you have your sh!t together.” Kids these days aren’t nearly as tormented as they were in the 1970s and 80s, bless their little hearts.

And that said, I wouldn’t decline to let gay parents adopt because the kid might be teased. No one can know what the kid will have to (or not have to) fight through. What if the kid turns out gay when they’re grown up, and the straight adoptive parents give him hell over it? Wouldn’t gay parents be better suited for that eventuality? Or what if the kid is given to nice Christian parents who disown the kid for deciding she’s atheist? You can’t plan for everything.

And yes, they were “my battles to fight.” If not mine, whose? You learn what you learn in life and it makes you who you are. Deny a kid a family because of what society will do to torment that kid (if anything)? I don’t think so. There have been times in my life when the steel at my core, that was tempered and made strong when I was smaller, has been absolutely necessary for me to survive in adulthood. It has enabled me to call bullsh!t on those who would have abused me in relationships later, because I could recognize it for what it was, and not just go along with it. My mettle has been tested, and it has made me stronger. And perhaps, just perhaps, that is in the best interest of a child who needs a home. :)

@laureth :D Bravo! You have made some really good valid points. this has been an interesting conversation.

@Pandora – I have read what you said and agree with much of it. I understand that people want better for their kids, and I would too. I think we might just disagree on what “better” is, and that’s okay.

@laureth Not really, I personally think a loving home, gay or straight is best for a child. I just don’t think that society is quiet ready. However perhaps, since I wasn’t in the same situation as you were raised I don’t have the same insites to society as you had the priveledge to have from a front seat view. I agree that there are situations or neighborhoods that are more accepting and I didn’t consider that in my ideas. That is why l liked what you last said. But I just simply hope that one day, society as a whole would not pick on a child simply because his parents are gay. The same way, in my day, I didn’t like to see kids picked on for having bi-racial parents. Its hard enough being a kid and too many need loving homes.

I think there is so much real abuse in this world it is a shame the folks who are expending the time and energy complaining aren’t fighting against the real thing.

It is possible for gay parents to be abusive the same as it is possible for straight parents to be abusive. No one group has the market on it

In my day, where I lived, and it still shows today, economic class will bring all sorts of heat to a child. That will follow them through school no matter what they do. Kids will do and say things to other kids partly because they are immature developing minds and or they are being raised by immature and or ignorant minds.

The best things we as parents can do is make damn sure our kids know it’s just not ok. It’s not ok to pick on kids because they wear different cloths, look different, sound different or have a different family situation. And if 1 or 3 people do it, it still isn’t ok. Speak up. and if only one of them agrees with you then suddenly that group is smaller. Then the person who was picked on has two friends. Every parent has to be open to the idea that their child could be a bully and even if their child was saying something they agree with, they have no right to do it to that other kid like that.

Excuse my rant. I have a sore spot when it comes to bullies.

@Naked Homer & @rooeytoo Bravo!! :D Everyone has an opinion but no real solution. I agree, its not enough to say what should be done but rather teach our children not to be intolerant of others. Its easier to teach a young mind that it is to change an old one.

@rooeytoo – Great point! And for that matter, would those people who argue about the validity of gay or lesbian parents, which is a dubious call at best, would they put forth the same effort to stop bullying at school? Or child abuse? Or neglectful parenting of hetro couples?

@Pandora – Thanks. :-)

I think they’re far more abusive to kids who could have homes with gay parents than none at all. They should be made to live as these kids do and then they would be happy to shut the hell up.

Another vote for ignorance

If two people can provide a loving nurturing environment, and provide all necessary needs for a child than it should not be a problem. I can understand how some people would think it is confusing for the child. However if that child is taught from day one that there are different types of relationships and different types of “mommies and daddies” then the child should not be confused. There child should be taught like any other child should be taught, that they should always choose their own path and fallow their own feelings. If a child is raised in a gay/lesbian home that does not automatically make them gay/lesbian, and his/her parents also have the responsibility to not just assume what their child’s sexual orientation will be. Straight parents usually are expecting their child to turn out straight, however this is something one can not assume. The same goes with gay/lesbian parents, they can not just expect their child to be gay/lesbian. Although in my opinion I believe gay/lesbian parents understand these sort of things more than straight parents.

All in all as I have stated above it should not matter what the sexuality of ones parents are as long as their children are given full and healthy lives.