Not sure, but we know which one was for 8 years.
Cuba, Iran and North Korea are hardly any threat to global freedom or security at all, their missile tests and similar activities are barely anthing more than political posturing and gorilla-esque chest thumping as none of these countries has the manpower, military, or funds to do anything considerable outside their borders and China is too dependent on the global economy to start any major trouble.
Really, the greatest threat to freedom in the world now is religious fundamentalism and restrictions of rights which nations are pressured into by the media-inflated threat of terrorism, itself a result of the west messing with other nation’s affairs via covert operations.

Any country convinced that its desires are more important than all others and will act against nations pursuing their own self-interest as they see it.

That can encompass all of the options you presented, as well as a few more I can think of.

Well the only country in recent history to invade others without cause is the US. Strange that you left it out of your list. Of course we (England, Australia, Japan, etc.) are just as guilty for supporting it.

Time to fix our own house in America. China has not positioned itself as a military threat but it is a very potent economic threat. The US cant blame anyone but itself for its current problems.
Finding a scapegoat nation will accomplish nothing.

Yes, definitely The Banana Republic.

I think it’s the U.S.

Damn those banana republics. Always throwing a curve ball, sneaking up like that.

I think a better question would be: which dominant ideology is the greatest threat to personal freedom? When you ask “what country is the greatest threat to freedom in the world,” I am led to believe that you have a specific vision of what “freedom” is and I am not sure how you have defined that term.

Israel… the most racist country on the face of this earth

New Zealand.Yeah, no good looking all sheepish. Beware the kiwi.

Ok I’ll bite.
How does Israel threaten world freedom?

The U.S. has certainly propped up more dictatorships in recent years than any other country.

Of course that was all in the name of “spreading freedom.”

I’m pretty confident that China will evolve politically to allow its citizens more and more freedom. That seems to be the trajectory they’re on.

It appears that the USA is the greatest threat to the individual freedom of its own citizens.

N. Korea and Iran.
N. Korea may be selling nukes to radical countries. Iran is developing their own nukes.
If any of these countries attack Israel with nukes, the US will respond with a hellfire that will result in many Muslim countries opposing us.
For shizzle.

No single country. Geopolitical events can become extremely dangerous now, and with slim chances of being handled in the traditional model.

One example: Pakistan is a possibly failing State, with tight ties to Islamic fundamentalists. It is also a country with a nuclear arsenal. Suppose the government failed, and a band of terrorists were able to control the nuclear weapons. What could possibly be done to avert nearly total catastrophe in this scenario? And how unlikely is it? Not very unlikely.

I agree with @ragingloli, religious fundamentalism is the greatest threat.

In the Middle East, SE Asia and here in the US, people pushing backwards to pre-Enlightenment thinking are the cause of today’s most dangerous conflicts.

Often the one claiming to be the most free, and liberator of others. (Aka 5th vote for the US.)

@UScitizen Your statement about Israel is as obnoxious as it is false. Shame on you.

@filmfann
North Korea had enough trouble getting there and they are not exactly mass-producing nuclear warheads like the Soviet Union. I am pretty sure they are eager to keep every one of their nuclear weapons for themselves.
Iran has an interest in self preservation. They know that if they attack Israel with nuclear weapons, both Israel and the US will respond in kind and they know they have no chance of winning. If Iran starts a war, they will invariably lose, and when they lose the US will install a pro-west government, marking the end of the reign of the Ayatollah and the good old Mahmud. They know this, so the probability that they would attack Israel is pretty slim, non-existent even.

Antarctica

What the hell, I’m gonna go with North Korea and Iran for 200 dollars, Alex.

Iran doesn’t see Israel as another nation. They see it as evil.
It is fully possible that Iran will attack Israel, simply to wipe it out, regardless of the fallout (pun intended).
During the first Iraq war, Iraq launched rockets against Israel, trying to provoke Israel into a response. Had they done so, Bush 41’s coalition would have fallen apart. Israel understood this, and held back.

Venezuela ranks up there. The unpredictability of Chavez and his willingness to do shady oil deals with Russia and his willingness to support radicals is a powder keg of trouble waiting to happen.

Another vote for the US. Aside from slowly destroying it’s citizen’s freedom, it has been setting up totalitarian dictatorships in the Middle East and South America for decades.

@filmfann
I seriously doubt Iran’s leadership is crazy or even fundie enough to do that. The thing that any dictator wants the most is staying in power. Iran’s leadership may be full of hateful and grandiose rethorics, but they are not stupid.
I see Iran’s nuclear ambitions as part of their self preservation goal. They have seen Afghanistan and Iraq being conquered by the US and they know they are next on the list. What better way to protect itself against invasion than becoming a nuclear power?

@filmfann Yes Iran would attack Isreal and the United States(if capable) with a nuclear weapon. They have wanted to destroy Isreal for a long time. They consider the United States “The Great Satan” and want to destroy it as well. Al Qaeda has stated that their goal is to kill 4,000,000 Americans including 2,000,000 children, That was proven from a video from Al Qaeda. How do you think they would be able to kill so many people? Iran’s leadership is fundie enough and yes they are stupid. Any good leadership knows that it can’t hold leadership long enough by being oppressive. Irans president is just as dumb as Saddam. Every oppresive dictator loses power really fast do to it’s own people uprising or from outside intervention. Iran’s president is a terrorist himself. Terrorist use terror in impose their views on others what better way to terrorize people other than becoming a nuclear power and threatening them

@Mikelbf2000 Iran is not Al Qaeda. And underestimating the intelligence of your enemies is a fatal mistake to make.

@OperativeQ I’m not underestimating them. I know what they are capable of. Everyone should after the numerous attacks they have pulled off. Everyone rolls their eyes if someone says “what about 9/11” Thousands of people died that day so i think its a safe bet if we let our guard down that it will happen again. Iran would happily supply terrorist including Al Qaeda with weapons, money, and if they have one, a nuke that can be used by a suicide bomber. Iraq could have done the same thing. Doesnt matter how contained Saddam was. He still could have pulled it off. Any state with extremist are potential threats to the free world.

@Mikelbf2000 Saddam was the only thing keeping Iraq under control and we now know for certain that he had no arms, and hated Al Qaeda.

@Mikelbf2000 The US and Israel are just as extreme as Iran or Iraq. The only difference is that we have the ability to carry out our agenda.

@Mikelbf2000
Saddam was a secularist and Al Qaeda was pretty much one of his greatest enemies and supplying them with weapons would have been the last thing on his to-do list.
You seem to believe that there are only 2 sides, us and the enemies and that all enemies support each other like best friends forever, which is just nonsense.
Iran might supply extremists with weapons, but a nuke? Where do you think the US would come knocking first when Al Qaeda detonates it?

@OperativeQ The only difference is that we have the ability to carry out our agenda.

Sure. We noticed how you managed to get Baghdad as safe as it was in the Sadaam days. Ooops. No, Oh well you tried. And tried. And tried. Maybe you should have got some pointers from Sadaam before killing him and then killing many times the number of people that he did while in the process of totally losing control of what was once such a beautiful and safe city.

@DarkScribe To be honest, I think thing are going according to plans for the US oligarchy. There were no plans to make it a better place, but only to acquire it under it’s control.

@OperativeQ here were no plans to make it a better place, but only to acquire it under it’s control.

Oh? What went wrong? The US has no control, they live in a city of fear because of that failure to gain control. Sort of like Vietnam – nobody wins – but lots of people die.

Ok good point. Iraq maybe wasnt the gravest threat to the US. Iran and the Taliban however are very grave threats to not only the U.S. and Isreal but to the free world. There are so many holes in our border security that it is possible for a terrorist to come in with a backpack nuke. It is a frightening possibiltiy.

All, I deliberately left out the USA because (1) I didn’t want to load the question, and (2) I didn’t want to alienate Americans because they seem to be the majority here on Fluther.

But I agree that the USA is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, threat. They’ve been interfering in other countries’ affairs for years and have propped up dictatorships around the world for years. Now, they’re reaping what they’ve sowed, and they’re crying “terrorism” and “victim.”

Now, I don’t think anything justifies hijacking passenger airplanes and murdering thousands of innocent people, but when you’re fighting against a powerful foe and have little resources yourself, well, you gotta do what you gotta do. And I believe that, during the American Revolution, the Americans used what many would consider to be “dishonorable” tactics (guerrilla warfare) by the conventions of war at the time.

@HungryGuy during the American Revolution. Americans didnt kill thousands of british civilains in England. Guerrilla tactics and terrorism is two different things. Every country like to point at us Americans like were the bad guys. Alot of us may be arrogant but were not the bad guys.

In the US, we are slaves to money….

What good does us freedom if we fail to be free? ;)

@Mikelbf2000 The idea of “good guys” vs. “bad guys” is one reason so many other countries find the actions of the U.S. government to be so intolerable. And although you point to the fact that” Americans didn’t kill thousands of British civilians,” thousands of Iraqi civilians have been killed “collaterally” in a war that seems to have no verifiable point.

@Mikelbf2000
you filled that quota with the native americans

@jealoustome I guess we should just forget that 9/11 ever even happened, The war is Aghanistand is justified. Collateral deaths from war is unfortunate inevitabiltiy. Wether Iraq was justified or not will never be known unless we find proof that Saddam had the weapons that started the war in the first place. My point being that other countries should talk like their hands are clean.

@ragingloli You filled your quota with the Jews, Romani, Blacks, Mentally Handicapped, Homosexuals, slavs. etc.

Wether Iraq was justified or not will never be known unless we find proof that Saddam had the weapons that started the war in the first place.

Funny stuff.

U.S.

We set an example for everyone else. It’s not a good one.

@jaytkay do you have evidence that they didnt? I didnt start the war. Maybe they did, Maybe The Bush administration was telling the truth(GASP!!!). Never know though. Not like they are going to share confidential info with you all.

@Mikelbf2000
Yes, we did. And we were the bad guys back then. But the oh so great america can do those things without being the bad guy.

@ragingloli I didnt say we are oh so great, I just said we are not the bad guys in this conflict.

Poor @Mikelbf2000, still looking for the Weapons of Mass Destruction.

@dpworkin what are you going to say if they ever find them. I have no doubt that he had them. He has been trying to aquire WMDs for years. He used them on his own people.

Oh, @Mikelbf2000, you really had a heaping helping of the Kool-Aid, didn’t you. Even Bush and Cheney quit making those idiotic claims.

@Mikelbf2000
Oh let’s see: Both wars were started by the US without UN mandate and thus in violation of international law. Both wars were factually illegal. Yep, you are the one of the bad guys in this conflict. The other bad guys were Saddam and the Taliban.

@dpworkin LMAO Kool-Aid comes in blue as well and you all drank a ton of it during the 2008 election campaign. I however never said i was a republican, You assume too much.

@Mikelbf2000 You gotta stop, really. My sides hurt from laughing!

I never called you a Republican. I hinted that you aren’t very bright. Maybe that’s where you got mixed up.

@dpworkin I guess anyone who doesn’t agree with you is not very bright. I love how you people resort to personal attacks once someone says something on the contrary of what you think.

“you people”? Good one.

“i still believe it! all the evidence speaks against it but i still believe it no matter what! i must retain the faux justification for this illegal war!”

@ragingloli though I disagree with some of what you said. You are at least disagreeing with me in a civil manner. I respect that.

I am so ashamed.

@Mikelbf2000 Dang, Mike. You make it so hard to argue with PD and loli on this one. They are usually wrong, but you are so wrong here that you make them look like shining white knights.
Quit while you are behind. In the Revolutionary war, America was indeed the guerrilla… and loli is correct in stating that the US filled that quota with the Native Americans.

And PD is correct that there were no WMDs found, and obviously there won’t be any to find, since that was a huge lie told by Bush to get the American people to reluctantly agree to spend their pension monies on his stupidity.

@dpworkin since you are using personal attacks and being a smartass I’m going to do the same. How can a high school dropout be a smartass and a know it all? Really?

@davidbetterman
¬_¬

that’s like…so just your opinion, man.

@Mikelbf2000 Show me, in a rational, factual, verifiable way where I am wrong. Know what I mean? Put up or shut up.

“You people?” Those of us from Alpha Centauri 3 resent that remark!

Im just saying. How do we know?. Im not saying that I agree or disagree with the war. Im just saying maybe. Just maybe there were WMDs. Tell that to the Kurds he gassed. You can’t because they are already dead. I have no doubt in my mind that he at least tried to persue WMDs. Everytime I say something in Bushes defense people get mad. Did any of you have access to any intel in the government? No you didnt. I remember during Clintons administration they bombed Iraq. So it wasn’t just the republicans.

“Im just saying maybe. Just maybe there were WMDs.”
“I have no doubt that he had them.”

Which one is it.

North Korea. I dont think I need to explain why.

Let’s see. The US funded the Nazi Party and helped put Hitler in Power. Bush’s grandpappy, Prescott was involved in that.
The US cut off oil and raw materials to Japan at the same time, forcing them to declare war on the US.
Korea..who knows…
Vietnam…The US filled a vacancy left open by the recently defeated French. Why? To gain control of the poppies. It was a war for drugs.

Grenada may be the only military effort by the US which maybe had the US as the good guys.

All of the times we have been in Iraq have been at the bequest of a Bush administration, and all those years, people forgat that Sadam was a friend of the US and a personal friend of the Bush family.

Afghanistan…We are after the poppies and oil pipelines from Russia.

The more I think about it, the more obvious it is that the answer to the original question, “Which country is the greatest threat to freedom in the world?” is the United States of America.

@ragingloli You beat me to it. I was going to quote the previous “no doubt” quote as well.

@Mikelbf2000 I understand that you believe there could be intelligence that is not available to the average citizen that justifies an unprovoked war. But, if you received high security clearance and found that that intelligence for sure did not exist, would you then admit that the U.S. role in the Iraq war was unjustified and could be considered behavior that is a “threat to freedom”?

I have no doubt that he had them. He has been trying to aquire WMDs for years. He used them on his own people.

This is scary, it is truly frighting to think that such ignorance exists. You have no doubt simply because you have no clue. How could he possibly have used a WMD on his own people and have nobody notice? You don’t know what a WMD is – do you?

You are jingoistic, xenophobic and bigoted all in one package. You talk about Sadaam gassing Kurds. Do you know what started that? The Kurds game him more legitimate provocation than he gave Bush. Do you know how many thousands more people were killed as a direct result of Bush? Who is worse?

Do you know anything?

@DarkScribe he used Chemical Weapons which is a WMD. Just because there isn’t a big boom doesn’t mean it it isnt a WMD. And there is no legitimate provocation to deliberately kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. Bush didn’t deliberately kill innocent civilians. Much less his own people.

@DarkScribe You dont know me enough to consider me a xenophobe or a bigot. Do I know anything? LMAO Do you know EVERYTHING???

The High School dropout is still waiting for you to be clever.

The high school dropout needs to stop calling others stupid. Especially when he didn’t graduate high school. He needs to learn to respectfully disagree and not be a douche about it.

Once again: give me something to disagree respectfully with. So far your posts are bereft of facts.

@dpworkin and yours is full of fact??? It’s your opinion on it. Unless you work for the CIA you don’t have a clue what intel the government had.

OK, pal, you are becoming tedious.

@dpworkin of course because you don’t know what intel the government had.

@Mikelbf2000 You dont know me enough to consider me a xenophobe or a bigot.

Unless there is someone who is posting under your name I already know far more than I need to about you. Those observations are based squarely on posts that you have made.

@Mikelbf2000 Bush didn’t deliberately kill innocent civilians.

Of course he did, he deliberately invaded their country.

@Mikelbf2000 If the gov’t made an argument based on the idea that they had WMD’s and went to war on it, why wouldn’t they happily admit to finding them?

Hmmm, this is turning a bit nasty. Some folks are the product of Fox News and it isn’t easy to dissuade them from their “facts.” We were all brought up to believe the news, and in the last, I don’t know, 15 years, Fox News has convinced a large segment of the population of half-truths and twisted facts. But attack the source, not the person. I suggest never watching Fox News, but if you must, only do it for entertainment, not news. Long live NPR and PBS.

Back to the original question, it seems to me that it is when the US is attacked that pervasive paranoia ensues and then the freedoms are lost. Well, then again I forgot for a moment about the economic stranglehold the US has on many developing countries as well. Sadly, I may have to concur the US, particularly when irked, becomes the greatest oppressor of freedoms.

@Mikelbf2000 he used Chemical Weapons which is a WMD

Nonsense, those chemical weapons could be produced by any half competent Chemistry student in a backyard laboratory. Hardly the WMD stockpile that the Bush administration pretended that he had.

Not to mention that America supplied Iraq with chemical weapons in the 80s.

@DarkScribe Weapon of mass destruction is just any weapon that is capable of killing a large amount of people and/or cause massive destruction. Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself. That is not true about me. Bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices Hmm to an extent maybe but aren’t you the same thing! You don’t tolerate my views that he may have had WMDs. Like I told dp, unless you are in the CIA you have no clue what intel the government had on Iraq before we invaded. By the way Bush did not ivade Iraq with the INTENTION of killing civilians. I have many friends who are in the militray and they have to be very carefull not to harm civilians. Inevitably some civillians will get killed by stray bullets or from bombings but those are not intentional. My friends who are in the military and were there in Iraq and had contact with the civilians told me that they actually get mad because they feel the Americans are NOT DOING ENOUGH in Iraq. People who were there and some still are told me this. I would think their word is more credible than yours. Could this be because many are still grateful to be rid of Saddam and his Sons who terrorized them for years?

Like I told dp, unless you are in the CIA you have no clue what intel the government had on Iraq before we invaded. By the way Bush did not ivade Iraq with the INTENTION of killing civilians.

How would you know that? ARE YOU IN THE CIA?!

The greatest threat to freedom is not a nation.

It’s Marxism.

@OperativeQ Isn’t it obvious by now that @Mikelbf2000 is, in fact, a CIA operative? I had him pegged 20 lines back.

@OperativeQ Nope Im not, I have contradicted myself when i said I have no doubt about saddam having WMDs. I take that back, I think there is a good chance he had them. I have no reason to believe Bush wanted to kill innocent civilians. Neither do any of you.

@Mikelbf2000 Could this be because many are still grateful to be rid of Saddam and his Sons who terrorized them for years?

No, the nonsense about Sadaam and his sons was propaganda- US propaganda. I lived in Baghdad as a child, then visited regularly right up until the the US decide to play terrorist. Baghdad was one of the safest cities in the Arab world. Even when the Iraq/Iran war was in full swing it was safer than now.

As for needing to be in the CIA in order to know what is happening in a country that you have lived and are familiar with – that is laughable. Even if you don’t have local knowledge all you need to do is avoid the US press and you can get a good idea.

@DarkScribe I’ll believe my friends and my own people before I believe you. Those friends I mentioned are good people. They don’t lie.

@Mikelbf2000 They don’t lie

They don’t provide honest data either, but you do that, you believe them. As I said, you are jingoistic to the extreme.

I dont know you. I know them. They are my friends, you are not. I known them for years and never have lied to me. I will believe them over you. It’s not patriotism when I take my friends side over a complete stranger.

@Mikelbf2000

What if your friends didn’t intentionally lie to you, but they heard lies and passed them on? Obviously any of us could suffer the same problem, and probably we do. But in your case, how do you know if you’re hearing truth or lies?

@cockswain Those friends are some of my best friends that I have known for the majority of my life. One of them heard it directly from the mouths of Iraqi civilians. I have no reason to believe my friend lied, They don’t lie. For all you know I could be lying. I’m not but you don’t know that.

[mod says] Please refrain from personal attacks and off topic chatter. Even contentious disagreements can be discussed in a civil manner.

@Mikelbf2000

I misinterpreted part of the conversation as I didn’t read all the responses. I developed the impression you’d heard things from your friends about the intelligence issues. I have no doubt your friends in Iraq told you what they heard, and you have no reason to disbelieve them. But in light of Dark Scribes experiences in Iraq, do you think it is possible your soldier friends had different sorts of relationships with the citizens than Dark Scribe? Is it possible he would have heard a different view? As well, how many citizens told your friends they wish the Americans would do more? 5? 20? Thousands? It’s entirely possible the things they heard are not representative of the population as a whole. Also, the statement “Americans should do more” could be interpreted more than one way. You could interpret it the way you did (“I love the American help and hope they stay”) or differently (“I hope those Americans don’t leave until they fix this fucking mess they made.”) Without hearing it from the Iraqis ourselves, we should put it all in context and consider every possibility.

@cockswain You are right about that. It is possible. Not every Iraqi civilian thinks the same way as those that told him. I would believe that want the americans help to an extent but they dont want them there forever, They want Iraq to belong to Iraq.

@Mikelbf2000 That sounds very reasonable. It’s unfortunate things wandered so far off original topic. The point I’m making is that we need to be very careful in how we form our opinions since there is such an abundance of bias, as well as those who actively seek to deceive us for their own purposes.

The country in which you currently live in.

Israel is way more likely to nuke Iran first than the other way around.

The double standard with nuclear weapons in the middle east is ridiculous. It’s okay for a basically theocratic nation that is constantly at war with its neighbors to have nuclear weapons that they haven’t officially declared to anyone or, presumably, let inspectors see… and it’s okay for a country with a weak civilian government, a strongly anti-American population, and a roiling Salafist Islamist insurgency to have nuclear weapons… but not okay for the one country in the middle east that we can basically count on for despising al-Qaeda (i.e. the people who we’re actually worried about detonating a nuke) even more than we do?

It is absurd. I honestly don’t give a shit if Iran develops a nuke. I hope they do, and good for them. Hopefully in the meantime they’ll get their theocratic government’s shit worked out, and I am glad to do whatever I can as a citizen of the world to help them (nonviolently) ... but I’m seriously not worried about them dropping a nuke on Israel or anyone. If I were a leader in Iran I would be all for developing nuclear weapons so that I don’t ever get invaded by Israel, the United States, or one of their allies (i.e. like Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war, back when we were pals with Saddam) which seems to have happened once every ten fucking years or so. (By the way, Moussavi—the guy who was running against Ahmadinejad, the leader of the so-called “green revolution”? Way more gung-ho about developing nukes than Ahmadinejad was.)

America is the greatest threat to world freedom because many American citizens think American is “exceptional.”

This means, in no particular order:
• America is blessed by a Mesopotamian sky god named Yahweh
• America is exempt from any international rules or warfare or human rights
• America has never done anything morally wrong in foreign policy
• America has the authority to act unilaterally as a hegemon
• America has the responsibility to spread American culture and ideology by force

If reality was set in a sci-fi epic America would be the evil empire that everyone else wants to get away from. I mean shit, we already have the robots spying and dropping bombs on villagers.

Which isn’t to say there aren’t many good things about American or Western culture, or that military force is never justified… it’s just not nearly as justified as like half this country thinks it is, and for all the wrong reasons. Which is terrifying.

@Qingu If reality was set in a sci-fi epic America would be the evil empire that everyone wants to get away from

What would Bush look in like a Darth Vader helmet.

@DarkScribe ”We noticed how you managed to get Baghdad as safe as it was in the Sadaam days. Ooops. No, Oh well you tried. And tried. And tried. Maybe you should have got some pointers from Sadaam before killing him” They did not need to ask Saddam anything, they just needed to be smart enough to remember Vietnam and they didn’t neither did they remember that when they marched in Afghanistan heck the Russians fought there 12 years and never got anywhere those who fail to remember the past or condemned to repeat it.

China and Russia. North Korea is all ego.

Russia is too weak to save us from the liberal elites that run this country.

China is getting strong enough to spell terms. I know Native Americans who await the day.

The united states is already threatening people around the world in the name of protecting it’s nepotistic allies. It supports apartheid states and engages in civil terrorism.

Iran needs to get a bomb and use it.

Unfortunately many innocents will die (in Iran and elsewhere), but that is the price that must be paid because we have allowed our country to become occupied and infested with liberal elites.

If you don’t like that vision – don’t shoot me, there’ll be plenty of time that after it happens. Just remember… I warned you.

Your enemy is now your friend.

Well it was Vietnam I seem to remember, then it was Iraq, just now it is Afghanistan and next it will be Iran. And wasn’t it Grenada at one point? No that can’t be right. Could it?

I don’t think it’s a country. The international corporatists are sucking the life out of democracy / self-determination / freedom everywhere.