Spend time around new parents. They will reveal in no uncertain terms that there are benefits to not procreating.

@Captain_Fantasy I’m sure among benefits for procreation
@prolificus I think the question sounds a bit biased – like saying ‘how could atheists find meaning without god in their lives?’ – simple, no god, no kids, no issues, meaning inevitable due to other things.

Just like one can choose not to have kids(like I did),one can also choose happiness.:)
When I need to see kids,my friends and family are more than willing to have Aunt Lucy take care of them as I am a blast ;))lol

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – here’s my bias: I come from a culture and family background that places family / children / marriage (heterosexual) on a high pedestal. Without these things, according to my cultural background, life cannot be fulfilling.

Edit: Biased or not, my question is legitimate IMO.

My cat is my baby. I mean I baby my cat.

What free time? No really, I haven’t ever had the partner I felt would be father material, never the resources to raise a child on my own in the way I’d feel comfortable and also I think there are enough people with my bloodline that I don’t need to contribute. At my age (over 30) then pretty much all the men I meet (I’m into men) have already got kids from previous marriages or screw ups so I get plenty of exposure that way.

There are times I wish my life had played out to have just one good husband and one child, I would have liked a nice family, sure but it didn’t work out that way. My life still feels awesome overall, I don’t feel unfulfilled, I don’t brood but I do think it would be nice to “have it all”.

@prolificus Well do you believe this nonsense?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – If I believed it was nonsense, I wouldn’t ask the question as I have.

@prolificus Okay so you want people whose lives you find meaningless to explain to you why it isn’t so? That’s nice. and the question is legitimate and I gave it a GQ – but it kind of sours it up a bit when the OP has already made up their mind…why would anyone want to answer it if they think you’re looking down at them?

I think @Simone_De_Beauvoir has a point. Your question is assuming something that probably isn’t true for most of the people your question is targeting.

I think the question is worth turning on its head: why on earth do people think that having children gives their own lives meaning?

I have never wanted children. It is a combination of things. Now, due to medical reasons since last year, I am unable to have children. Before that it was a fear of passing on what I consider bad genes and the fear of perpetuating abuse onto my children (even though I would not want to). Then I am pretty selfish, would rather have the money used to support children to support myself.

I would not date a person who was responsible for children for some of the same reasons.

@nikipedia Exactly, I was just going to say that the burden of proof isn’t on childless people but you beat me to it. GA!

Woah wait! Before you all start attacking my question… please be patient and hear me out!!

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – I do not find childfree / childless to be a meaningless way of life. If I thought their lives were meaningless, I wouldn’t ask them what they find fulfilling. I believe it is possible to have fulfillment apart from parenthood. I don’t know what it is, though… and I sincerely want to know because I feel sad and want to know that I am going to experience fulfillment apart from parenthood.

It seems like a perfectly reasonable question since so many people think that life cannot be fulfilling without having kids.

It’s valid to question that notion.

I think those that find meaning in their lives would still do so with or without that which they can’t have, and if it’s something they don’t want, then they clearly don’t need it to find meaning… This could be applied to anything, including kids or goldfish. Interesting Q, albeit worded in a lopsided way.

@prolificus The answer is: of course you are!
@Captain_Fantasy I did say I gave it a GQ

The idea of calling a childLESS lifestyle as “child free” cracks me up. I have noticed the phrase on E-Bay regarding clothing being kept in a “child free” home. As if the kids contain a smell….or something.

Sorry I couldn’t find a link.

BTW… Ouch. WTF! You are more concerned about pointing out bias, than hearing me.

@prolificus But you don’t understand. @Simone_De_Beauvoir is just fulfilling the meaning of Fluther…..attack the question!!!

@prolificus All right, I’m outta here – that was not at all my intention
@plethora let’s not get into this again, we’ve had enough fluther drama..we’ve never even had a problem, you and I

@snowberry
Kids do have a special “kid” smell!

@Neizvestnaya LOL, and their “kid” smell is so strong that it can permeate clothes…sort of like cigar smoke? LOL Yeah.

Yeah I’ve smelled that special smell before. It means it’s diaper changing time.

@Captain Fantasy Eeew!

I have a friend (45 years now) who decided to not have children. I see money as a huge issue. I have 3 kids and thank gawd I do but, wow, do they cost money!!! My friend and her mate have all the toys, holidays, new cars, etc. I don’t think she feels unfulfilled.

I have had fertility problems and never took the step to adopt. I am currently trying to decide whether to give becoming a parent a final try. Having said that I have been very happy with my husband without kids. We have loads of freedom. We travel, sometimes at a whim. We have a great time spending the evenings together just watching our favorite shows. We go out whenever we want. He has been able to pursue his love of racing cars. Most of the couples I know who don’t have children are very happy ones, because they can completely focus on each other.

I think it’s very difficult for women in our society to simply be. We often exist as something else: wife, housekeeper and mother. I feel that those who find fulfillment in childless marriages, or in any situation, are fulfilled by simply being. If they want to volunteer they do. If they want to build a boat, then they do it.

They are not filling a gap left from not having children- they are living openly and doing what pleases them, interests them and furthering things that they believe are right. Just like people with children do.

You will be okay.

I think that’s like asking a deaf person how she experiences a fulfilling life without sound. How can she answer that? It has no meaning to her. But if she is experiencing a fulfilling life, then she is.

Joseph Campbell’s answer to this would be “Follow your bliss.” Not everyone’s path to bliss leads through the nursery. Whatever is fulfilling to you is fulfilling, with or without children.

I have children, and I love them like mad and would do anything for them, and I’m glad I didn’t miss having them, but they are not what fulfills my life. It’s my own activities and accomplishments that give me personal satisfaction. I expect my kids to get their own satisfaction from their activities and accomplishments—for them, not for me.

“_ how do you experience a fulfilling life without experiencing parenthood?“_

LOL…Surely you jest @prolificus

Freedom from children! OMIGAWD… Freedom to travel. Freedom to just up and move anywhere, to live anywhere… Freedom from nasty dirty diapers, crying whining tykes…freedom from the bickering and fighting… freedom from schools…from their idiot friends….freedom from worrying will your daughter come home pregnant…or worse raped…freedom from worrying will they wind up on drugs…. freedom from being party to overpopulating the planet….freedom from…well, you might catch my drift by now.

As for a fulfilling life…why on earth would you assume that having children is required for living a fulfilling life?

@Jeruba -I love your answers!

I’m a parent and I’ll be the first to say that you can have a very full life without children. There are so many things that you can do without the encumberment of children. Believe me, I love mine – I wouldn’t have it any other way; but sure, there are days when I think back and remember, fondly, being able to just do what I wanted to do without having to make tons of arrangements. Mine was volunteer work that required travel, maybe not even within the same country that I live. It gets a bit difficult when you start adding children to the mix.

There is a whole world out there, with endless possibilites, to assume that life can only be fulfilled with children, wow. It never occured to me that was the only answer!

I love the life that I have now. However, if I was childless, say with my husband – we would have stickers all over our suitcases from where we traveled and would constantly be planning our next adventure. We love to learn, we love experience new things. We both have well-worn backpacks from many adventures, just itching to have more miles logged on them!

If anyone else feels the need to school me like @Simone_De_Beauvoir, @nikipedia, @Neizvestnaya, @Jeruba, and @davidbetterman have so painfully done, please don’t. It is hurting my feelings [sorry to admit on Fluther a weakness, knowing full well it encourages more of what hurts], and it is not helping me process the question. I asked out of sincerity, not to stir the pot about defining fulfillment or to poke the bears who feel the need to school newbies about asking biased or lopsided questions.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir And I like you too..:)

how do you experience a fulfilling life without experiencing parenthood?
By doing the things that make me happy.

If you do not have children of your own and do not anticipate ever becoming a parent, what are your reasons for being kid-free?
Just not interested. For myself, it seems like an awfully large investment for little reward.

Was this an overnight decision, or a long-term process of deciding?
There has never been a moment in my life where I’ve ever wanted kids. Perhaps my reasoning on why has changed with time, but the bottom line hasn’t budged one iota.

What emotions did you experience while deciding?
None.

Also, how do you occupy your free time and how do you find fulfillment apart from parenthood?
Wow, um, all sorts of stuff. Wife, travel, friends, exploration, learning, relaxing, reading, music, entertainment, hobbies, going out, staying in, watching the sun rise for no other reason than because I can, etc., etc., etc., the list is long. It’s fulfilling because I take the time to enjoy the process. I find pleasure in the little things along the way and have learned how remarkable they can be. Fulfillment in life, for me, is about happiness, experiencing and enjoying the moment and always seeking what’s over the next hill or around the next bend. Frankly, I don’t why I need kids to do that.

I am married and childfree. I decided when I was about 27 that I did not want children, and then when I was 33, I had to have an operation that made my decision a permanent one.

There are two things that made me have peace in my heart about it.
1. There are so many unwanted children in the world, if we want to be parents, we can adopt.
2. My child will never have the pain or fear of death.

I know that I was not meant to be a parent (yet). I’ve known that for a very long time. My husband is okay with that. If, or when, we are ready, there are many, many children all over the world that need loving parents.

@prolificus I certainly didn’t meant to hurt your feelings. I was just answering your question.
I am sorry for the pain and turmoil which I may have inadvertently caused you.

@prolificus I PMd you but I also second what @davidbetterman said (hey he and I are agreeing on something!)

OK, to be serious, there are a lot of folks who choose to be childless (sorry, I’m not using “child free”). Any career that involves a lot of travel or a 24 hour a day 7 days a week schedule would likely be one. It’s pretty hard to be a decent parent when you’re never there.

I’ve heard of a number of people who-by choice, or by circumstance choose to include nieces and nephews in their lives when it’s convenient. I’m not sure if this part of my answer does not answer your question, but it is a way to lead a fulfilling life without children of your own, and yet still have them in your life.

@ everyone – I’m going to bed. I got revved up and hurt trying to defend myself. It totally did not help dealing with the issue at heart in the OP. Thanks to those who were helpful. I appreciate it.

OMIGAWD…@Simone_De_Beauvoir and @davidbetterman have agreed on something…break out the champagne!

Great work @prolificus ..You have helped make history!!!

I find this activity entirely fulfilling. I do it every summer. Here’s a great way to have some fun…But you either need a kid of your own, or a nephew or a niece or two to borrow, or maybe a neighbor child, and the family cat.

Hand the kid a bottle with a good lid on it, and ask them to go out and hunt grasshoppers. Tell them to fill the bottle up with as many as they can, and bring it back. Then you pop the kitty in an (empty) bathtub with shower doors, shut them, and sprinkle in the grasshoppers. It’s the very best entertainment ever!

You and your borrowed kids will laugh yourselves silly watching the cat. It’s the greatest fulfillment ever. If no kids are available you can catch the grasshoppers yourself, but it’s not as much fun. The cat will have fun too.

Edit: I’ve tried to find adults who will do this activity with me, but I’ve never been able to. Not exactly sure why. Anyway, that’s why I need to borrow kids these days (I’m a grandmother, and too far away from my own grandkids to borrow them).

@snowberry When you say “pop the kitty” do you mean shoot it?

@snowberry
They are pretty pungent but I think it’s younger kids, sorta like very old people get “old people smell”. You can always tell when getting into a car if people have kids, same thing when walking into their home. Car dealers know this, real estate agents and house flippers know this and yeah, it definitely permeates clothes, carpets, drywall, etc.

@Neizvestnaya I have NEVER heard this. Now, if a kid poops or pees their pants and that gets on the upholstery, I can see it. If they spill food or milk all over and nobody cleans up after them, I can see it. But that’s more a reflection on the parents.

My kids never smelled bad because I made them bathe regularly. I’ve smelled some pretty stinky grown-ups though.

I like “childfree” now :)

@snowberry
It’s not a bad smell just a distinct one, kind of like babies smell like babies, dogs smell like dogs and old people smell like old people. I think the rest of us smell like chicken.

@Neizvestnaya na ah, I’m a vegan, I smell like tofu! ;)

love your neices and nephews and get a pet

[mod says] Let’s get this discussion back on track, guys.

I was going to write a longer answer, but if @Jeruba‘s answer hurt your feelings, I don’t know if I can manage more than a sentence or two without doing the same, and I’d rather not risk it. But I just got to talk to one of my nephews on the phone earlier tonight, so I’m in the mood to share part of the reason why I don’t want kids of my own: There is no way I could possibly love a living thing more than I love my sister’s kids without it being physically unbearable, and I’d feel like a complete shit if I loved my own kids less than someone else’s. XD

For the vast majority of my life I was very anti-children. Just the sight of some of them would annoy me, even if they were behaving themselves. Even to the point where I was physically ill when, my then girlfriend, said she thought she might be pregnant…. probably not the response she was hoping for I admit. My opinion has softened considerably since shuffling the wrong side of 30, however, there is only one person I’d want to have a child with. If not with her, then I’d rather not at all.

When it comes to interacting on the Internet with complete strangers, normally I have a thick skin (or at least try to have duck feathers for stuff to roll off my back). With the little reading I’ve done about childfree / childless way of life, I knew before posting the question how volatile this subject can be. The idea of having or not having children taps into a very primal mandate—whether it’s biological, religious, cultural, philosophical, personal, or political.

Perhaps it would have been helpful for me and for those who participated in this thread to understand that it was not my intention to agitate the volitile nature of the subject.  Intellectually I understand experiencing fulfillment can only be determined by an individual’s choices and experiences; it is not contingent upon societal approval or by attaining societal norms.

For me personally, I have several reminders stirring the pangs I’m feeling about my childfree present and future way of life.  At the risk of not being heard or understood, I will share those personal reminders.  Five years ago this month I endured the heartache of losing a child.  (The circumstance was related to the adoption process.) After several months of waiting for the child to be born, after experiencing the joy of taking home the newborn from the hospital, after becoming attached and knowing what a mother’s bond feels like, and after several months since bringing little one home, my ex-partner and I failed to retain custody. It was a heart-wrenching day to return our little girl to the biological family.

My life continued, obviously. Without going into details, I will say a lot of major things have happened in the past five years.  Just so it’s known, I’ve not always wanted to have children.  Along this journey I’ve felt much ambivalence for various reasons.

I asked the OP using the chosen wording because I’m experiencing an emotional decision—not one easily processed intellectually. By choices I have willingly made, I have closed the doors to ever having children of my own. It was not a political statement, but a personal choice made three years ago. It is only now that I am going through the grieving process of realizing I won’t have children of my own. It is a very pain-filled realization.

I want to work through the grief I’m experiencing now.  Intellectually I know I will find a sense of fulfillment.  So, with a little thicker skin than I had last night, I’m here to listen to the responses on this thread.

@prolificus I’m sorry you’re going through this. {hugs}

@prolificus What a sensitive and well thought out comment! I commend you for your transparency, integrity, and honesty to yourself (and to us)!

I’m not childless, but my grandchildren are a half country away, so I literally borrow children (with their parents’ permission, of course). I meant it about the cat in the bathtub. I really do that! I also borrow kids to bake cookies, hunt for bugs, and tell stories to, etc. I have lost count of the kids my daughters have brought home, and tell me they want me to be their mom. So instead of having “only” five, now I have so many more. I tell those kids that if they’re going to call me “Mom”, I’m going to treat them as if they were my own. They’ll get the same lectures and hugs, etc. They seem to be OK with that. These kids are now all in college, and I have told each of them they can come live with us (free) if they stay in school. Nobody’s taken us up on that yet, but the offer’s open.

It’s not the same as your own kids, but you can still have a tremendous impact on a child not your own.

I admit my life won’t be all it could have been with children, but I’m willing to endure it. The trade off is much too tempting.

@prolificus I think the reality is that people who are not in the very position you, I might even go as far to say we are in don’t really know how bad it feels. The tremendous loss. I don’t mean that people can’t be empathetic, but there is so much more to it than just not having kids, especially if you always thought you would have them as I did. For me I have some tremendous regrets that go along with the whole thing that I won’t go into now, not to mention I get comments sometimes from friends and family members along the lines of if I really wanted children I would have done what was necessary to get them. Well, it’s just not that simple.

I kind of look at it like the two things are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to be sad about the idea that you; I will use I for this, that I might never have children and also be able to enjoy my life. Right now, in this moment it is hard for me also, even though as I posted above I have had a wonder life and marriage overall with my husband so far. We have been married 17 years.

Maybe it’s because I have never been a parent so don’t know what I am missing but I think that if the only fulfilling part of someone’s life is their children then that is very sad. I choose not to be a parent now because, even though I am in a long term, committed relationship, I have no desire to have children. I don’t feel maternal in anyway and I like the freedom of not having that kind of responsibility. Obviously I will never say never, maybe one day I will want children but, at the moment, it’s not even in my long term plans.

There are plenty of things in my life that give me fulfillment from things that I consider a big deal like my relationship, my friends and family and working with dogs to the smaller things like watching my favourite TV programme, sitting on a swing in the park, trips to my favourite places, going to the theatre/opera, dancing to my favourite music….my list could go on and on.

All this is probably very easy for me to say because I am childfree by choice. I can only imagine how hard it would be for someone who desperately wants a child but is unable to. Some people may feel unfulfilled without children because that is their main desire in life and I feel for those people because those are probably the people that should be having children. However, whether you have children or not I think it is very important to find fulfillment in other things.