No matter the [reason!] do Most of You support Our Troops?

Yes. our freedom is founded and secured by the military veterans of this land. thanks to each and every one, what we owe you can never be repaid. The military vets of America deserve much more than they get, and every civilian should thank every military veteran they meet, no matter which conflict they served in.

I am proud to be a citizen of this country where so many brave men and women serve in life and in death. I am personally indebted to the troops. And it doesn’t matter if I believe in the cause, I can always believe in the troops.

Hell yes, they are doing their job. If you don’t like the job they are doing, take it up with their boss, not them.

I think with the exception of disturbed individuals every American supports the troops, no matter what their feelings about the war. I lived through the Vietnam era when people behaved badly toward the men and women who fought, and I don’t think anyone feels anything but shame at having treated soldiers that way.

Absolutely! Anyone who doesn’t support our troops…. I don’t even have the words to express how despicable that would be. They deserve our utmost thanks & support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings

Some of them are just trash that want to kill brown people.

You bet I support them. Freedom isn’t free, they pay the price for all of us.

@wilma :: Most countries are free.

@johnpowell many are free, and someone usually is willing to put their life on the line, to defend that freedom. In my country our soldiers do that for us. I am thankful for them everyday.

@johnpowell I share your feelings of disgust over what happened at Haditha, but, and here perhaps I have been misled, I am under belief that the atmosphere that allowed these crimes was developed upstream from the frightened kids who actually did the crime. This is not to excuse their criminality, but rather to focus a fair portion of the blame upon the Officer tier.

Yes. I like what @rooeytoo said about them just doing their job. They are putting their lives on the line for our freedom. That’s something to support. If you think they’re doing the job badly, take it up with their boss.

While I fully support and respect all those who have voluntarily been placed in harm’s way for my government, let us remember that they are not currently fighting for our freedom. Not since WWII have our soldiers fought to protect the people of the United States or our land. Let’s not be deluded by the brainwashing patriotic banter handed to us over and over again to justify the killing and the dying. The government is fighting for oil. And many of our troops are fighting because they need jobs, and neither our educational nor economic systems have provided them any other opportunities.

Yes, I do. I used to volunteer with the U.S. Sea Cadets Corp, and my sons volunteered for the military. My adult grandsons wanted to join, but were rejected because of medical.

@simpleD Good point. I admit I really don’t know all the facts. But I think those guys are over there because they believe in the USA and want to keep it the way it is, without all the terrrorists and everything.

Yes. I think it’s a good thing to support, because you don’t have to also support the government (all the way).

@ChocolateReigns The main reason why the military is in the middle east is so they can be handy volunteer targets for the terrorists so they don’t have to come over here to take potshots at Americans. They’re not doing a whole lot about terrorism otherwise.

I support the troops. I do not support the war and the waste of life.

I support EVERYONE’s troops.

This “support our troops” thing has been so co-opted by the right as a means to divide people, I have no idea what it means anymore.

What does it mean to “support” our troops?

@PupnTaco To give a rat’s ass, to not oppose, to do things that show appreciation… There are many ways to do this, some less overt than others.

@PupnTaco I think it means to care that the troops are fighting for any reason. To care for them. And to want to help them.

@PupnTaco, I was just thinking the same thing.

Given my POV on the current conflict, it’s difficult for me to regard this as much more than a contract entered into voluntarily and with plenty of disclosure, pay and benefits. I think it’s a shame that “protecting our freedom” is conflated with corporate imperialism and that so many are oblivious to that liklihood (and compliant with it- but what is new in the past 2000 years).

I hope our troops (including my cousin) come home safe, but I don’t believe there’s any honesty about the reasons why we are there.

@mikeblack I would suggest working on your spelling and proper capitalization in the future. As it reads, your question makes little sense. Especially the “statistic” that you used.

@rooeytoo but if the soldier believes what he is doing is morally wrong or that the war he is helping fight is morally wrong, should he refuse to fight? Be a conscientious objector? Or, does he always have to follow the order from the boss?

@JLeslie Don’t they sign up for the military knowing that they might have to go to war, and that they might not have a choice whether they go or not?

@smartfart11 I should say I do support our troops. I was just being devils advocate and curious also. To respond to your question many of them sign up because they have nothing else. They are promised travel, training, a chance at an education, and more. They think little of the dangers sometimes. This is why many are for the draft, because the military preys on the lower income young men knowing they are easier recruits. Of course there are many soldiers who joined up to defend our country, but for many others it is a job.

My father is a retired officer (although he was not armed services, he worked for PHS) and military life can be a wonderful experience and I feel soldiers should feel proud that they are working and defending our country.

@JLeslie My dad’s in the military, too. Army. I see the point you’re bringing up, and it really makes sense.

@smartfart11 Something to ponder: What if the German soldiers had been conscientious objectors? Many of them were not in favor of exterminating the Jews and others, or about invading other countries.

The quandary of course is it is necessary for the chain of command to work in a military setting. You can’t have a bunch of soldiers just deciding they don’t like their particular assignment or you start to get chaos.

@JLeslie Maybe that’s why we think we have information on our current “war” that is not true or maybe just partly true.

@smartfart11 What do you mean exactly?

@JLeslie I wish I knew more about the Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan situation. It seems like a lot is covered up by our government.

@JLeslie – I think the indoctrination into the military pretty much brain washes most into the “I must obey my commander in chief” mind set and not many question it.

I wonder at your assumption that most who enlist do so because nothing else is available. I hear many here say they are “giving something back to their country” or they are serving for the love of their country.

I think all should have to serve for a prescribed period of time when they graduate from high school. Would level the playing field of life a bit.

I support our troops! I may not support the people who control them but they’re ( the troops) sacrificing themselves for us. The least we could do is support them.

@rooeytoo Did I say most? If I did, I chose my wording poorly, I do not think it is the majority, but I think it is a health percentage. Recruitment centers are typically in shopping plazas in parts of town that are lower, and lower middle socio-economically. I am talking about enlisted men, not officers. Of course there are people who enlist out of love of our country, wanting justice for 9/11, family legacy (sometime generations have been in the armed forces). But, I know many who got their medical training for free by joining the service or became pilots etc. It does not mean they lack committment to the country and cause necessarily, but many times the driving force is the opportunities not the “fighting.”

I support them 100%.

if we truly “supported” our troops we would demand them to be returned home. They’re not making one bit of a difference over there and what they come back with is PTSD. our government could care less about preventing/stopping/treating this disorder.

Many, many people end up in the military (enlisted) because they “failed” at being adults and functioning in the real world. There are a great number who have a year or two of working or college and end up entering at about 20 years of age. They cannot mange without the structure that they’ve previously been confined to and being asked to take responsibility for themselves as adults is too much. They can’t figure out how to get to work and class on time, they can’t figure out what happens when you spend all your money on beer and don’t pay your bills, they can’t figure out the responsible adult thing. They need someone telling them what to do. The military, with people telling them when to eat, sleep, and shit, is the only place where they can get the complete lack of having to take initiative outside of jail. And you can’t get girls in jail. Plus when you’ve got a lot of debt because you’ve been irresponsible, that enlistment bonus looks pretty sweet. So there are indeed many that have nothing else to do that end up in the military.

There are also those who get out who still have no concept of how to handle money. Those are the ones who spent all their pay and bonuses as they got them and who still need someone telling them what to do in order to be responsible adults. Sometimes they get married and have someone who tells them what to do, sometimes they get screwed up again in the same way that they did before because they did no growing up while people were telling them what to do all the time. This is one of the many ways that the military is letting people down, by not teaching them to be fiscally responsible along the way.

@colladom Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to treat PTSD? There is no way to prevent it, there is no way to stop it, and it is difficult, at best, to treat it.

not really, they join the military as young niave, misinformed people, for varying reasons, they are of course a mixed bunch, some decent, some with homocidal propensities, i think it’s sad that very few if any have the balls or inclination to turn round and say, fuck this! i’m not going to be a party to this senseless conflict anymore, that is something i would support.

I support most troops. I’m sure there are more than a couple individuals that are in it for the wrong reasons. But for the most part I do support the troops. Just not the war.

@colladom I hereby demand that our troops be returned home drat, it didn’t work

i support the troops. as a future Airborne Ranger i have looked into multiple things, videos, books, letters, and all that good stuff. i see what they have to go through in just training alone. and then the soldiers who are put on the frontlines, it’s nothing like a video game or a movie or a book. they depict that as best as they can, but it is far worse than what the media of today has turned it out to be. i will defend this country until the day i die, because freedom cannot defend itself. i support the troops 110% Hooah! for all the Army soldiers out there! ;-)

I do think one must separate the politics that cause the wars from the individuals who fight it. As for “people in the military”, I’d have to meet each one and evaluate on a case by case basis if I liked them, if I agreed with them on issues, if I felt they were good, worthy people. But regardless of whether a person joined because he was unable to do anything else, or because of a sense of duty to country, or to get an education, or to do what is expected in that family or to kill a bunch of brown people, the fact is that these people are being paid to do a job for the US Government, and whether or not the US Government is doing the right thing, I believe that every soldier who is doing his or her duty for which he or she is being paid is to be thanked for their service, honored for their bravery and treated with respect, as well as given our unconditional support. I personally support them by voting for people whom I believe will not misuse our military forces…people who will only commit the lives of our soldiers for morally pure reasons (self defense being the only pure reason there is in my opinion). My wish is that the smallest number of lives possible are sacrificed, and that includes the people on the other side of the war as well. I prefer peace over war, life over death, but even if I believe that we are involved in a war for all the wrong reasons, I can not in good conscience fault the soldiers for that. It always flummoxed me that soldiers returning from Viet Nam were spit on by their countrymen, they were doing their jobs, they were servicing their country, and many of them were pulled out of their lives and forced to go to fight in a war they didn’t believe in. I’m not a flag waver. I don’t display a yellow ribbon. But I wish our troops the best of luck in accomplishing what they are sent to accomplish, and hope as few of them die as is humanly possible, and I stand in awe of the bravery it takes to give your life for what you believe in. And I know that some soldiers I would think were truly great, heroic people if I met them, whereas some others I might not cross the street to kick in the shin, but as a body, yes, I support our troops.

Are there people who don’t ‘Support Our Troops’? What do they do? Are there still a large enough group of people abusing troops to justify having a saying that shoves people on one side or the other?

Wouldn’t it be a bit like saying ‘Support non-cousins marrying!’?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything of the sort- I’m serious. Are there Americans (in this example) who are still waiting to do to troops now what happened in the Vietnam war era? Do they get pelted with feces anymore?

if there are LARGE groups of these non-supportive people, why aren’t they being shown anywhere?

We all have a duty to support our troops (this does not in anyway shape or form include Black water troops or any other mercinary organisation with no oath or accountability!.....), they took an oath which they find deeply honourable. Its our duty because they are our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, and family.

There is a saying that I’ve heard people from the military say a few times that goes something like ‘there are those who serve, and those who choose not to’. I never knew what it really meant untill I saw what our troops had to deal with on web pages such as www.liveleak.com

They sign up to serve because they think they’re protecting their piers and their family
and once they’ve done that and they end up in the thick of it, they’re looking after each other, hense the ‘band of brothers’ term. My wife has a friend who had come out of the army and was ready to sign back up when we went into Iraq because he knew the people who he had served with in Kosovo where undoubtedly going to be in life threatening situations.

But at the end of the day we must understand that its not people who take countries to war, it is governments. So we have a moral and ethical duty to gather as much information about what is happening around the world, and if nesessary, take our governments (chicken-hawks) to task for what they have done. In the end the troops which our guys’n’gals are fighting, are fighting under the same assumtions. That they are a sovriegn nation, sovreigns in their own right, fighting to remove what they perceive to be the invaders. Regime change is never going to solve their problems, because they are rooted deeply in their religions.

So we need to campaign to stop these unethical, unlawful/ilegal (emphasis on unlawful) wars, and bring our troops home. And when they get home, they should be treated with honor, compassion, empathy, and above all love and acceptance for what we have forced them to do, and forced them to endure.

So I will think of them always, the fallen and the injured.
And I am truly sorry, I hope that they can forgive us, when they return home.

I hate the idea of war and the stupid reasons some are started. But this has already started and they are fighting for us whether i like it or not so i support them.

I support our troops because i know they are out there risking their lives for me, and everyone else in this country, yet i don’t support the war. As people, with lives and family back home, i pray for them to be safe. It saddens me hearing on the news the growing number of the people we lose.

To those of you saying the troops haven’t been making a difference… I encourage you to gain a more accurate perspective of the situation.

@NaturalMineralWater
War will always make a difference, just wether its a good on is another matter.

I’d love it if someone would be honest and skip the “fighting to protect our freedoms” line in favor of “fighting to protect our economic interests” or “fighting for our socio-economic strategic gain.”

@Pazza Great name by the way. =D Look, I’m not trying to claim that Iraq and Afghanistan have become meccas of peace and democracy.. but if you were there.. on the ground.. before and after us (the collective military) .. the difference is plain as day.

I guess it just gets a little tedious hearing from people who haven’t served and get all their information from tv. And no.. I’m not saying you are one of those people.. I’m just saying that there are a lot of them out there.. and it’s disappointing to hear that when one of my soldiers gets killed in action… the American people think he didn’t make a difference.. I call BS.

@NaturalMineralWater It would be great if we could hear from the troops more about the differences, and better yet I would like to hear it from a bunch of Iraqi citizens.

@JLeslie The troops aren’t authorized to be very verbose about the situation over there. And in fact, a great many of the Soldiers don’t even support their own mission. However, there are plenty of good things to talk about in both locations..the improvement in the quality of life for towns that no one has ever heard of, the improvements in the economy, the elimination of terrorist big shots with names most people can’t pronounce, and the fact that there was even an election over there speaks wonders.. sadly television networks get more of an audience for highlighting negative things.

@PupnTaco Maybe you are not seeing the picture very clearly. If we don’t protect our economic interests we will lose whatever freedoms we now have. That is one reason that enemy forces are interested in “fighting” by printing counterfit US currency, and flooding the international market with pirated goods. It is all a blow against freedom.

@NaturalMineralWater
Just for the record, I never get any of my information from the MSM, its just one big propaganda network. I guess I’l never really know what its like on the front line, and to be honest I don’t want to. I think there are a lot of situations that come from war that have a positive outcome, though I think democracy isn’t one of them, might I add that America wasn’t set up to be a democracy, it was set up to be a constitutional republic, a country should never be a democracy, democracy is a con. Democracy is tool for playing the game, not the game itself.

Backing up a bit, I think that the vast majority of the things that come from war are detrimental to the stability of any country, especialy when its being invaded, invaded unlawfully, and invaded to remove the person that we put in there in the first place.

I you look at any war in the last 100 years (in my opinion) there was a banking cartel behind it, who do you think funded Hitler?

All said and done, I mean no disrespect to any and all who serve under an oath to the people. But when you look at how this whole thing got started, and ultimately what its all working towards, any and all who argue thats its for a good cause are deluded.

@YARNLADY
I mean no disrespect, but surely your not advocating the killing and mainming of millions of innocent foreigners just so you can have aspartame filled fizzy drinks and cheap clothes.
And dare I mention cheap oil….... Me thinks you should look into Gull Island. Or visit Gregg Pallest’s web page!

Ignorance is no excuse.

@Pazza If I had my way, international issuse would be solved by RPG, but since I don’t, I say that we must use the means we have to protect ourselves. The alternative can be seen in Somalia. Surely you don’t think that is better? Just because there is misuse of the military, does not equal burying our heads in the sand or pretending that we can sit back and do nothing.

@YARNLADY So if another country gains financial advantage, I won’t be able vote or read the newspaper?

Walk me through that.

@PupnTaco As you know, the subject you are trying to make fun of is very serious and very complicated. I have no interest in continuing a nonsense approach to it.

@YARNLADY Its a legitimate question that @PupnTaco is asking. Please explain or say that you can’t. Either is acceptable, while telling @PupnTaco that they’re being nonsensical seems to be a non-answer cop out.

@avvooooooo @PupnTaco Protecting our freedom is not about reading newspapers.

@YARNLADY You’re going to have to do better that that.

I, for one, as I have experience with journalism know for a fact that protecting our freedom is about reading newspapers and the ability to do so.

If you aren’t able to explain your point, please say so instead of trying to make it about us.

Balancing the need to combat terrorism with the need to stay true to our values and protect our civil liberties is one of the most critical issues we face today.

Soldiers gave you a birthright of freedom born in the Constitution and now you are too illiterate to read it.

It’s the soldier, not the reporter, who gives you the freedom of the press.

It’s the soldier, not the poet, who gives you freedom of speech.

It’s the soldier, not the campus organizer who allows you to demonstrate.

It’s the soldier who salute the flag, serves the flag, whose coffin is draped with the flag, that allows the protester to burn the flag!!!

That’s a copy & paste from Zell Miller.

Help us understand, in your own words, what specific “freedoms” are threatened by another country’s economic advantage.

@PupnTaco The loss of the economic advantage of the value of the U S dollar can be seen in this recession. Many people are finding out the hard way that when the dollar falls, they lose everything. My own words cannot help you understand that which you refuse to acknowledge and are apparently unable to discover on your own from the vast resources available to you on the internet.

This venue is to answer questions, not to try to convince those who will not and cannot understand complicated economic principles.

Believe me I understand all that.

But what you’re talking about are benefits and privileges, not freedoms.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything, nor should you feel threatened. I’m asking if you can provide facts to back up your assertion about our freedoms being threatened by foreign enemies.

And yes I agree with you, the unecessary and illegal war in Iraq has greatly contributed to our current economic woes. That is what you meant, isn’t it?

I find this but surely your not advocating the killing and mainming of millions of innocent foreigners just so you can have aspartame filled fizzy drinks and cheap clothes statement to be very insulting and far from asking for facts. If you were to ask the name of a good book written by an expert in the field, I could give you that, and you could read it for yourself. To spout such ignorant and inflamatory phrases as So if another country gains financial advantage, I won’t be able vote or read the newspaper? says nothing to indicate you are interested in finding a reasonable answer to your comments.

Thanks, I think you’ve answered my question (in that I understand your non-answer).

A good evening to you, ma’am.

@YARNLADY Attribution is a good thing, especially when one wishes to essentially call people illiterate… while plagiarizing.

And what you’re saying, through your non-answers and unattributed quotes, is that you can’t explain your assertion. Got it. Wish you could admit it, but got it.

There are very few people who are wholly ignorant here on fluther. Most of us have read the Constitution. Many of us regularly read or watch the news. A great many of us are able to have a discussion on any number of topics, including the war, with some knowledge and opinions based on facts. When someone cannot back up their “facts” with actual facts and instead blames other people for not taking anything seriously, it brings down the level of discourse. If there is something that you have that backs up your assertions, perhaps the book that you think would do so, please provide supporting material. Saying “I have the name of a book, but I don’t feel like giving it to you because you didn’t ask” when I personally asked you to provide something that backs up your statement is very immature. We are aware that this is a question and answer site. And that we posed a question, namely “Where are you getting that information?,” and you refuse to answer it.

We have asked you repeatedly to give a reasonable answer. You refuse to do so or are unable to. Whatever. Just be aware that you’re not convincing anyone of anything at this point except that you have no way to back up what you’ve said and are trying to blame other people for you not being able to back yourself up.

As I already stated, with examples, I have no desire to continue the discussion. It is not a matter of not being able to back up, as not being interested in discussing the matter with people who call this a reasonable discussion:” but surely your not advocating the killing and mainming of millions of innocent foreigners just so you can have aspartame filled fizzy drinks and cheap clothes“insulting “So if another country gains financial advantage, I won’t be able vote or read the newspaper?”

I don’t even drink fizzy drinks, and the newspaper comment is so simplistic as to be nonsense.

@YARNLADY Again, you’re copping out. That’s stupid. Either have a conversation or admit that you don’t know, but don’t try and blame your refusal to back yourself up on other people. If you can back yourself up, please do so.

You said that there was an economic impact. A question was asked about what kind of economic impact. You refused to answer, supposedly based on the fact that you didn’t like the way the question was asked.

You said that we would lose freedoms. A question was asked about how we would lose freedoms. You refused to clarify, supposedly based on the fact that you didn’t like the way the question was asked.

Its on you. No one else, you. If you want you back up what you think you know, please do so. You’ve been asked several times. Your continued refusal proves nothing except that you have no idea what you’re talking about and don’t want to show it.

But you already have. Going around and around about how stupid, ignorant, rude, simplistic, unreasonable, nonsensical, and oblivious we all are isn’t proving anything.

Oh, right impuning my motives works – not

@YARNLADY Again, copping out and blaming it on someone else. How mature.

[mod says] Flame off, folks. You aren’t getting anywhere constructive, here.

America’s soldiers and marines (the good ones/the average ones) join up with the trust that their Commander-in-Chief will make the best decisions.

Instead they end up with pro-war sellouts like Bush & Obama. All presidential Democrats and Republicans end up committing the very crimes Gen. Smedley Butler talked about in his book, War is a Racket.

War should be hated and prevented.

But those willing to place their trust in America’s government and willing to defend America’s people, should receive safety soon as its possible, gratitude, and healing (not to mention, more money, and more healthcare).