Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

What, exactly, does it mean to "privatize" public schools?

Asked by Dutchess_III (46860points) February 8th, 2017

And what are the pros and what are the cons?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

27 Answers

LostInParadise's avatar

The free market is very good at providing many goods and services. Education is not one of them. The reason is that education is a shared resource. We all benefit from having educated workers. If education is only available to those who can afford, society bears the burden of supporting the others. Charter schools seemed like a good idea, but their record has been mixed. There are some excellent ones, but there are some really awful ones as well.

zenvelo's avatar

It means the local school board transfers the physical plant of a school over to an organization that operates outside of the standard curriculum and practices of the local district, and sets up an admissions basis that allows them to exclude children that “don’t fit in” with the school population.

The school board transfers funding to the organization. The organization chooses which teachers to hire, and sets any standards beyond the state minimum for hiring.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Do the parents have to pay tuition, like in private schools today?

zenvelo's avatar

@Dutchess_III Do the parents have to pay tuition, like in private schools today?

Some do, some don’t. Depends on the set up of the school. The disturbing thing is that the school can discriminate based on factors that are not permitted for public schools, and can set a curriculum that would not be appropriate for a public school.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What kind of curriculum could they implement that wouldn’t be “appropriate” for a public school?

rojo's avatar

Private Christian Madrassas that get to pick and choose who is and is not allowed based on a criteria they determine usually leaving those who need the most help and utilize the most resources to be taught by existing public school system; systems that are usually stressed for funding and resources to begin with. For years they have sought public funding to further their agenda under many guises such as charter schools, school vouchers and donations to the school that can be written off as tax deductions that reduce the available funding funding public education system.

Now that DeVos is confirmed we will see even more access to school funds but I guess the needs of a few outweigh the needs of the many.

rojo's avatar

Here is a list of twelve problems commonly associated with charter schools from this article from Valerie Strauss in the Washington Post:

Here are the 12 problems,

1. Most are not helping kids. Rep. Roebuck’s new report shows that for the 2012–23 academic year, “the average SPP [School Performance Profile] score for traditional public schools was 77.1,” but for charter schools it was 66.4, and cyber-charter schools came in at a low 46.8. What’s more, “none of the 14 cyber charter schools had SPP scores over 70, considered the minimal level of academic success and 8 cyber charter schools had SPP scores below 50.” [Charter and Cyber Charter School Reform Update, April 2014] The latest national research found that charter students in Pennsylvania cover 29 fewer days of reading material on average, and 50 fewer days of math than traditional public schools. That puts us in the bottom three states in the country. [Stanford CREDO, National Charter School Study 2013] If we’re going to have charter schools, shouldn’t they be helping students?

2. Some are actually hurting kids. In a new report out last week, Gordon Lafer, a political economist at the University of Oregon, reviewed the growing low-budget-charter sector in Milwaukee, which has the oldest charter system in the country, and found startling results with national implications. Cost-cutting charters such as the Rocketship chain offer a narrow curriculum focused on little more than reading and math test prep, inexperienced teachers with high turnover, and “blended learning” products designed to enrich charter school board members’ investment portfolios. Lafer “questions why an educational model deemed substandard for more privileged suburban children is being so vigorously promoted—perhaps even forced—on poor children…” [Economic Policy Institute, 4–24-14] Others have pointed out significant problems with zero-tolerance, strict discipline charters made famous by the “no excuses” KIPP chain of schools. [EdWeek, 2–20-13]

3. Far too many are cash cows. When Pennsylvania is seen by hedge fund managers as prime ground for “investment opportunities” in charter schools, you know something is terribly wrong. And when four of the top political campaign donors in the entire state are connected to charter schools, you have to start asking why. [See “Charters are Cash Cows”] Publicly funded schools should not be serving to line the pockets of private companies and individuals.

4. The industry is rife with fraud and corruption. Who can forget the scheme by PA Cyber Charter founder Nicholas Trombetta, right here in Beaver County, to steal $1 million in public dollars? Federal investigators filed 11 fraud and tax conspiracy charges against him and indicted others in the case. [Post-Gazette, 8–24-13] And then there is the Urban Pathways Charter School in downtown Pittsburgh under FBI scrutiny for trying to spend Pennsylvania taxpayer money to build a school in Ohio. A related investigation by the state auditor general revealed a history of expensive restaurant meals, a posh staff retreat at Nemacolin Woodlands resort, and payments for mobile phones belonging to the spouses of board members. [Trib, 11–11-13] Not to be left out, Philadelphia just had its eighth charter school official plead guilty to federal fraud charges. [Philly.com, 2–10-14]

5. Lack of transparency and accountability. Charter schools are publicly funded, but often act like private entities. Here in Pennsylvania, the largest charter school operator has been fighting a right-to-know request for years in the courts so that he doesn’t have to reveal his publicly funded salary (data that is publicly available for traditional public schools). In 2012, Gov. Corbett and the Republican controlled legislature tried to introduce a bill that would have exempted all charters from the state’s sunshine laws. [See “Where are the Real Republicans?”] In California, charter school operators have even argued in court that they are a private entity and should not be treated as a public institution. [Ed Week, 10–7-13] We desperately need charter reform legislation that emphasizes accountability and transparency, just as we demand from traditional public schools. [See the top 5 reasons the current proposed legislation fails to do both.]

6. Skimming and weed-out strategies. Dr. Kevin Welner, professor of education policy at the University of Colorado at Boulder, has found that charter schools “can shape their student enrollment in surprising ways.” He has identified a “Dirty Dozen” methods used by charter schools “that often decrease the likelihood of students enrolling with a disfavored set of characteristics, such as students with special needs, those with low test scores, English learners, or students in poverty.” [NEPC Brief, 5–5-13] Think it’s not happening in Pennsylvania? Consider the Green Woods charter school in Philadelphia that made its application available to prospective families only one day per year, in hard copy form only, at a suburban country club not accessible by public transportation. [Newsworks, 9–12-12] When charter schools overtly, or even unconsciously, urge students to leave – for instance, by not offering services for special education students or English language learners – they send those students back to traditional public schools.

7. Contribute to the re-segregation of U.S. education. For a number of years, researchers have noted the trend towards re-segregation in public education and the role that charters may be playing in that process. A recent report warns, “the proliferation of charter schools risks increasing current levels of segregation based on race, ethnicity, and income.” [Phi Delta Kappan, 2–2014] Dr. Julian Vasquez Heilig, of University of Texas at Austin, writes about some charter schools that claim they would like to be more diverse, but that it’s “hard to do.” He explains, “Charters have a choice whether they want to be racially and economically diverse schools that serve ELL, Special Education and low-SES kids. Based on the various admissions and management policies … charters choose their students, rather than families choosing their schools— in essence, school choice is charter schools choose.” [Cloaking Inequality, 11–11-13]

A pointed article in the Jacobin last summer took liberals to task for supporting charter schools while failing to fight underlying racism embedded in education: “Advocating charter schools to boost academic outcomes for poor, minority kids presumes that we can provide equal educational opportunity and simultaneously maintain a status quo of segregated housing and schooling. If you are unwilling to wage the unpopular fight for residential and school integration and equalized (and adequate) school funding, charter schools can seem a “good enough” compromise.” [Jacobin, 7–31-13]

8. Drain resources from struggling districts. Charter tuition payments are causing a huge financial drain for many districts – $53 million in Pittsburgh this academic year alone. With the state’s massive defunding of public schools, Governor Tom Corbett slashed reimbursement to districts for charter school tuition payments: that cost Pittsburgh $14.8 million in 2012 and continues to cause mounting financial harm. [See “Charter Reform Now”] And remember, when a couple students leave a classroom to attend a charter school, that classroom still has to keep the lights on, and pay the teacher and the heating bill: the math is not a simple moving of dollars from one place to another. What’s more, there is evidence that charters, especially cyber charters, are enrolling more students who were previously home-schooled, thus increasing costs for school districts. [NCSPE Brief on Cyber and Home School Charter Schools]

Answer Sheet newsletter

Education questions and answers, in your inbox weekly.

9. Closing traditional public schools. Some of the biggest charter school supporters are simultaneously working to close traditional public schools. For instance, a New York Times article this week on the Walton Family Foundation reported that it “gave $478,380 to a fund affiliated with the Chicago public schools to help officials conduct community meetings to discuss their plan to close more than 50 schools at a time when charters were expanding in the city.” [New York Times, 4–26-14] In Philadelphia, charter school proponents have succeeded in getting new charter schools opened while waves of traditional public schools have closed. This year, parents in some schools are being forced to choose between conversion to a charter school, with additional resources for their kids, or staying a traditional public school and losing resources. [Philly.com, 3–13-14]

While Pittsburgh has resisted any large scale opening of new charter schools, the state is now forcing the district to approve new charters, even as it is slashing the budget and promising more school closures. [See “When Charters Cause Harm”] Under state law, districts are not permitted to take into account their own financial situation when approving new charter schools, which means that charter expansion cannot be a rational part of an overall strategic plan.

10. Lack of innovation. Charter schools were meant to be “innovation labs” to test out new ideas and introduce those ideas into the traditional public school system. But that is not happening. We’ve had charter schools in Pennsylvania for 15 years, so where is all this innovation that should be showing up in all of our schools by now? Supporters of the highly problematic Senate Bill 1085 wish to strip the innovation clause out of state law, which is the last thing we should be doing. [See “Top 5 Reasons to Oppose SB 1085”] We need to find ways for the best charter schools to work collaboratively with school districts so that all students benefit.

11. Hard to get rid of the bad ones. Poor performing charter schools do not just go away. Half of all brick-and-mortar charter schools have been around now for over ten years. But Rep. Roebuck’s new report finds that “their results do not significantly improve the longer that a charter school has been open. … Unfortunately, for 2012 – 2013, a majority, 51 percent of the charter school open 10 years or more have SPP scores below 70 [considered the minimal acceptable score].” The report concludes, “these results are not encouraging and it raises concerns about renewing many charters with poor performance over so many years.” [Charter and Cyber Charter School Reform Update, April 2014]

12. Charters promote “choice” as solution. I’m not convinced we simply need more “choices” in public education. We do need great public schools in every community (that doesn’t mean in every single neighborhood), that any parent would be happy to send their children to, and that meet the needs of local families. We don’t really have any choice at all if our local public school is not a high quality option. The idea of “choice” is very American, but it’s also at the heart of modern neo-liberalism; free market ideology has turned parents into consumers, rather than public citizens participating in a common good. Markets do a fine job making stuff and selling it. But they also create extreme inequality, with winners and losers. [See “The Problem with Choice”] Don’t get me wrong, I don’t begrudge any family that makes the personal choice to send their child to any school, whether private, religious, charter, or magnet. I’m not advocating getting rid of choices. But I’d be a lot happier if charter advocates stopped using “choice” to promote these schools. Choice alone doesn’t guarantee quality and it hasn’t solved the larger problems facing public education.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Wow. This is going to take some time @rojo.!

1. Perhaps the charter schools spent less “time” covering material because the students in the school mastered the concepts more quickly. I don’t think it serves any purpose to pretend like the more time you spend on a subject, no matter what the reason, is better, somehow. If it’s mastered, you move on.

2. WHY were the teachers “inexperienced,” and why was there a high turn over rate?

3. No comment.

4. What the guy did was illegal and he got caught. How is that different from anyone who tries to defraud the public sector?

5. What makes him think he doesn’t have to disclose his publicly funded salary?

6. “Skimming and weeding out.” Well, wealthier families do that by choosing high end neighborhoods, with high end schools. But that aside, if privatized schools do that, then those kids are “forced” back into public schools, right? But the public schools will have less budget. How does that work, anyway? (Never mind. 8 explained it.)

7. Segregation is illegal. Why would charter schools be allowed to get away with it?

8. Explained

9. Why are they working to close public schools when, in their perfect world, they’re the holding ground for the “less desirable’ kids? What do they gain from closing them?

10. ”So where is all this innovation that should be showing up in all of our schools by now?” I don’t know. Where is it? Why isn’t it there? What is to be gained by not having the motivation?

11. Poor performance scores…don’t the parents have the option of pulling their kids out of a poorly performing charter school?

12. I agree. “Choice,” unchecked and unregulated is bad. Ultimately, though, aren’t charter schools supposed to give parents more say in the education? Or is it just more of the same, parents who don’t really care, but feel the schools need to make up for their apathy.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

It means their going to hand our public school system over to private corporations. Gee. Maybe they’ll do as goood a job as they did on our prisons, our hospitials and our whole community healthcare system? If America let’s this happen, I hope they do get bombed by somebody. What a bunch of fucking idiots. How many times do you have to get fucked before you realize you’re getting fucked?

jca's avatar

Here in New York city, a common criticism of charter schools is that they pick and choose who they admit. Therefore, they can pick and choose kids who do really well, so statistics show (make it look like the schools are very successful at what they do.

zenvelo's avatar

@Dutchess_III 7. Segregation is illegal. Why would charter schools be allowed to get away with it?

It’s called a loop hole. They can discriminate based on religion, so anybody not of their faith is not allowed to attend. When the religion is for white people only, no minorities need apply.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Most private schools available to the average person are Christian schools. They have church members on their board, and the parents pay for the tuition so everybody is happy with whatever curriculum there is, as self defeating as it may be.’
My oldest went to a private, Christian school from 1st to 5th grade. They accepted denominations from other religions. They even accepted students with no particular religion, but it was made clear to the parents that they would be teaching Christianity as part of the curriculum. But even at that, they still had to meet federal guidelines.

Anyway, that’s a private school, not a privatized school. That’s why I’m asking the difference.

Also, as the non-religious segment grows, their support base will drop, if it’s solely based on religion.

jca's avatar

Anything privatized is run by a corporation. Public entities are not for profit, so when your taxes are paid to maintain the sewer system or the town hall or whatever, there’s no profit. When something is run by a corporation, the goal of the corporation is to make profit.

Here where I work the public medical center parking lots were privatized. Parking rates went from a minimal rate to many dollars per day. People who had loved ones in the hospital, nursing home or rehab couldn’t afford to visit because they couldn’t pay the parking rates. Too bad. Once it happens, it’s too late. The contract is signed and now the lot (or whatever facility or school or whatever) is now out of public hands.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

It means if the privatized school has a shortfall at the end of year, because of bad management you end up with a end of Baltimore’s EAI experiment

jca's avatar

For another great example, google “privatized prisons” and learn more about what privatization has done to the prison industry.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Can they become privatized without the cooperation of the public via their spokespersons? I’m referring to @Tropical_Willie example, from 1995. The school district shut it down.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Dutchess_III EAI was shutdown because of a well written contract for the Board of Ed, EAI failed by overspending and not watching their budget. The Board of Ed decided to privatize some of the schools not the general public. The public elected the Board members to run the schools and they did run the schools including hiring EAI.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The argument goes: the public schools are failing, and the reason is of course that bureaucratic public schools serve the interests of the teachers’ unions and little else. The reasoning is that the schools and their funding should be handed to the “private” sector because the profit motive is a stronger incentive to turning out educated kids than the promise of a pension to teachers after 30 years. That pension & benefit money can be diverted to corporate profits while teachers without those salaries and perks will perform better because they lack such protections as tenure and rights of appeal. It’s a simplistic and hollow argument in the ongoing effort to hand the public infrastructure over to the private sector.

rojo's avatar

Here are my personal thoughts on the matter @Dutchess_III
1. As a nation, it is in our own best interest to have an educated citizenry.
2. As a nation we should have a series of set goals that must be attained to achieve an educated citizenry.
3. Allowing individual states or community authorities to determine what these goals are sets up different standards of competency and knowledge which may or may not satisfy the goals set for the nation and as such should not be a part of the government education process.
4. All schools, even private and religious schools should be required to meet or exceed these national goals.
5. States and communities are welcome to provide additional teaching above and beyond these goals but should not be allowed to substitute them for said goals.
6. The basic education should be provided using common funds obtained by the government through taxation.
7. The basic education should be provided in structures constructed and staffed by government.
8. The basic education should be provided by competent teaching staff hired by and working for the government. They should meet ability standards set by the government.
9. The teaching staff should be graded yearly on how well they perform and achieve the desired goals. Additional help may need to be provided for those struggling.
10. If you are not happy with the system, or would like to further your own or your childs education then you are allowed to do so at your own expense as long as the minimum standards are met and the goals are achieved. You should not be provided or reimbursed funds if you choose not to utilize the services offered by the government.
11. Governments are not and should not be run as a business.
12. Businesses are not governments and should not be hired to perform tasks and services that are rightfully the responsibility of the government and its citizens.
13. Businesses have a right to offer services that match those of the government but should not receive government funds to do so.

Not going to get into the religious aspect of it right now.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@rojo “Allowing individual states or community authorities to determine what these goals are…” Well, states do have some leeway there. The federal government sets minimum standards. By law the states are required to meet at least those standards. They can go above and beyond, but not below.
Well that’s what you said in 3, 4 and 5. Would it be different in privatization?

I wonder if the religious aspect would play as big a role in it as theists think, though. Non-theists are quickly becoming the majority. I don’t know if they realize that.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Would it be different in privatization?

I grew up in West Michigan, which has long been filled with “Christian” schools. I think three of the ten teams in our sports league were run by conservative denominations.

The area was one of the wellsprings of the evangelical takeover of GOP politics in the 1970s and 1980s. Betsy Devos’s father-in-law (Amway founder Dick Devos) spoke at my high school graduation.

Her brother is a “Christian” warrior, founder of murder and massacre firm Blackwater.

So yes, their schooling has an impact. The so-called morality they learn is tremendously destructive.

rojo's avatar

@Dutchess_III See lines 11, 12 & 13 for the answer to your privatization question.

Dutchess_III's avatar

My point is, even if it’s a “private” school, they don’t get to name their own curriculum. They have to meet minumum federal standards regarding specific subjects. So do home schools, the most private schools of all.

Well, my daughter was at a private Christian school from 2nd to 5th grade. It wasn’t tremendously destructive to her. But without a balanced intelligence from home, it can be bad. It never occurred to me that they wouldn’t teach evolution, though! So I asked her a couple of years ago (she’s 38 now) if they taught creation or evolution. She said, “Both.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

I went back and looked, @rojo. I’m thinking and thinking.

rojo's avatar

Here is a sample of the reaction of American public school teachers to the approval of DeVos and her desire to privatize education.

As one says, “It is not about giving choice to low income families, it is about free market economics and the potential for profits for those schools and their investors”

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh, I know! I know teachers. They are all raging. But…I’m not sure that they’re any more certain of what they’re raging about than I am. That’s what I’m trying to find out.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther