Is the governments (UK) new advert proof that parents are failing their children?

The parents are failing them. It’s the classic case of children having children, and not knowing what to do with their “fashion accessory” once they have given birth! Plus, there is no manners and respect anymore and children are brought into that, and so think that that is how you treat others.

@Dibley I’m inclined to agree. What else are parents of such low quality going to produce other than thugs.

@TheJoker Exactly.

@TheJoker: Why are we breeding a degenerate generation who thinks this is appropriate behaviour?

unless I knew otherwise, I wouldn’t assume that the problems have gotten worse. just that the government acknowledges them with the ads.

(side-issue: what about violence by girlfriends?)

@Ria777 That’s a good point. My best friend was in an abusive relationship with a girl for about 4yrs. I had to take him to hospital on a few occasions. Although I stuck with male violence towards women as this was the subject matter of the campaign.
Whether the situations gotten worse or not this is degenerate behaviour, if it’s been common historically then all that means is that we’ve bred generations of degenerates. & just adds weight to the idea that parents are letting down their children.

It’s confirmation,not that it were needed,of the growing number of feral thugs & their equally dispicable apathetic parents currently prevalent in our society.I despise them with a passion. Lock them up & throw the key away is my solution,not going to happen though.Rant over, back to shiny happy people.

I agree with @Ria777…so many issues today are no worse than previous only our fixation with creepy details has grown so the news starved media will sensationalize anything just to get ratings and hits on their website. AOL, Google, Yahoo and the lot are a huge offenders of this style of info presentation.

Stop paying people to have kids, and then the poorest, least educated sections of society (the criminal classes and the unskilled immigrants) will stop being the primary contributers to population growth, and our country will be less likely to decay into a broken, pitiful shell of its former self… Oh shi-

I agree with both @Dibley and @The_Idler fore the most part. Unfortunately there seems to be a lack of discipline when it comes to the upbringing of many kids nowadays and I think @The_Idler hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, we are encouraging people to have lots of kids because they get paid more for that through benefits than if they went out and got a job! Kids from these “families” are often allowed to do as they please, running wild on the estates, causing disruption because they are bored and generally being little shits. These kids then get to a certain age (usually 14 or 15!!!) and they start breeding themselves and so it is a vicious cycle. The government should focus on educating people like this on how to raise their kids to be polite, decent members of society and not little thugs.

I know that I am generalising a lot in what I have just said but I live not far from an estate that is very much like my description. The parents let the kids get away with murder, there is very little education and no one seems to work. They get paid more in benefits per year than I do in my full time office job.

Yeah, let’s not get confused with the working classes. These people do not work. Spongers, parasites, freeloaders, whatever, it aint living on a council house estate that makes it, it’s the attitude to society and their ‘entitlement’. The worst thing is that it is a detriment to the honest, hard-working people in these areas.

These scumbag kids (along with those of the immigrants-against-integration) are rotting our schools from the inside out, and literally ruining the chances of other, hard-working kids, unlucky enough to be sent to one of these schools, saturated with nuisance children and foreigners with no respect for our society and no desire to learn English. How can anyone run a school like that!?

Why do I meet smart guys working shit jobs in warehouses? Because they went to one of these schools.

The erosion of social stigma attached to claiming benefits, along with the disappearance of any sense of responsibility for the upbringing of children (because the State’s efforts, like this, give the impression that it is State responsibility, and they will take care of it), and a mostly unchecked influx of unskilled, non-participant, anti-English immigrants has resulted in this overall decay in the structures of public duty, social responsibility and family/community pride, which together once made this country great.

I love this country, and it’s sad to say that that is exactly the reason I will leave.

You pick the average butcher’s shop in my town now? It’s foreign. It’s dirty inside. You get fucking eyeballed the entire time you’re in there. Likewise for a grocer’s. Why do we now suddenly have shops with fucking crates of bananas etc. spread out on the street? This is simply backwards.

I am proud of the fact we have representatives of cultures from all over the world and a generous social security system, but: I don’t want the main road cluttered with crates of bananas; I don’t want British kids being a minority in their own schools; I don’t want to be unemployed, whilst uneducated, unskilled foreigners work; I don’t want to be walking at night, in fear of random knife crime; I don’t want to have to distrust every kid I see riding a bmx; I don’t want to see the Government having to encourage kids not to beat their girlfriends; I don’t want to see people on the dole, when the streets need sweeping; I don’t want to have to regularly deal with the drugged-up, drunken chavs, who start fights for fun; I don’t want to live in this fucked-up, broken country any more.

@The_Idler I agree with a lot of what you say here but I have to point out that I have seen much more trouble from the British kids and their uneducated, lazy parents than the “foreigners” and often the “foreigners” are doing the jobs that the British are too lazy or think they are too good for to do themselves.

Oh yeah, for sure. The social security system is the real problem, and one of the biggest reasons we have so many immigrants anyway.

But I must reiterate: the vast majority of the “trouble” comes from the leeching resident population. The immigrants aren’t so bad, as people, but still a problem.

@The_Idler Some interesting points, although I do feel immigration has slightly veered you off track.

I think the state of our schools is a significant factor in the decay of social responsibility etc.
I think unlimited immigration has been a significant detriment to the state of our schools.

I think unemployment and low wages have been significant factors in the decline of family/community pride and the rise of benefit culture.
I think unlimited immigration has significantly accentuated the social issues around unemployment and low wages.

I think the disappearance of social stigma around living on benefits is a primary factor in the growth of this ‘culture’ of irresponsibility.
I think unlimited immigration has catalysed the disappearance of this social stigma.

This is not the immigrants at fault. But we offer free money and housing etc, hundreds of thousands of people swarm here to claim them. I think this may have something to do with the subsequent explosion of resident leeches. They said, “if they are doing it, they don’t care, why not us?”

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I think it is important to see unlimited immigration, and an inefficient, counter-productive benefit system, as two issues, each exacerbating the undesirable effects of the other.

If we didn’t give away so much free stuff, we wouldn’t have so many (of the worst kind of) immigrants* or resident leeches.
If we didn’t allow cheap labour in, in the first place, there would be more jobs for British people, and so fewer people claiming benefits & fewer people in a position where living on benefits is the “best” option, and so a greater social stigma attached to doing so.

Our schools wouldn’t be filled with benefit-babies and the children of freeloading, non-participant immigrants*, and this culture just wouldn’t exist. Not to this degree, anyway.

I don’t know the last time you were all in school, but some of them now….
Like I said, there is no way of running it, if half the pupils barely speak English, and half the rest just want to grow up to be like their parents and leech off the state. Just no way. And this is what fucks it up for the rest of them. Freeloading at the expense of the community isn’t something looked down upon in these places, because they are children of that idea. Even if they aren’t, they are surrounded by kids who are.

*I am definitely not saying all or most immigrants are like this, I am talking about the worst. There are still thousands upon thousands of them though, and theyre all having tons of kids, because we give them money for coming here and….having kids)

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And what if there were no immigrants to work in the warehouses and fast-food places!? Well, I’d fucking be at work, carrying boxes, spending my money on useless shit, for the good of the economy, rather than sitting at home, claiming benefits and chatting shit on the internet…

People aren’t unemployed because the jobs are “shit”, there is not such a thing as a “shit” job, only an underpaid job. And the reason we have underpaid jobs is unlimited immigration. The government is a friend of big-business. If there weren’t so many cheap migrant workers, the companies wouldnt all shut up and ship out! They’d just have to pay British people to do the jobs, and then claiming benefits would not be a good thing to do. If we hadn’t had unrestricted immigration and child benefit, our communities wouldn’t be in this awful state.

It’s just for the benefit of big-business. They don’t care about society or sustainability, they want loads of cheap labour, and that is what the government gives them. They don’t have to be clever or educated, in fact it is better if they aren’t. Then they are less likely to know their rights. They will work through agencies and be laid off on a whim. They feel used and mislead by the government. They have kids for the money and tell them not to trust those sneaky lying bullshitters in the government and in the schools. The kids have no respect for government, because they got told that government fucked up their parents’ lives to provide cheap labour to big-business. And here we are.

Labour Government?
More like Cheap Labour Government…

I came to this thread thinking that some civilized discourse would take place, but all I see is finger pointing and overt bigotry. I thought you Europeans were better than us ragtag Americans.

What about what causes such poverty and violence in the first pace? Why are kids having kids? How do we stop the cycle instead of merely placing blame?

Yuck.

1. What about what causes such poverty and violence in the first pace?
2. Why are kids having kids?
3. How do we stop the cycle instead of merely placing blame?

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1. Erosion of the social structure and no sense of public responsibility. See above
2. Child benefit and decay of family/community pride, disintegration of the nuclear family See above
3. Stop unlimited immigration and child benefit, revise the entire social security system. See above

OK, I derailed somewhat when I bought up immigration, but that was bound to provoke a response. I was mentioning it, as it is an integral part of the wider picture.

Believe me, I didn’t see it like this when I was younger, but I’ve worked for these agencies and met these people and I am unemployed because of cheap migrant labour, and I know how other people in my position feel about it. It was on my mind, and I wrote about it, as we were incidentally discussing a related topic. Sorry for ranting a little…

Back on track, though, I think this situation and the whole wider picture of social decay, which I outlined above, are consequences of Government policy over the past 30 years, which has seen a shift from a duty/responsibility-based civil service, to an incentive/profit-based civil service. This shift in ideology has affected the public also, and, coupled with “business-friendly” policies from both parties, has resulted in a blindly individualistic, short-sighted, irresponsible population and government.

@The_Idler As a single mother who does live on benefits I take offence at a lot of what you have said. I grant you that there are many people living off benefits that have no intention of working and perhaps only ‘breed’ in order get further payments. But I would like to say that without the help of the government I wouldn’t be able to stay at home and spend quality time with my son teaching him how to be a good person and study for a degree in order to get a decent job and that is without even a mention of the warmth, food and shelter I am able to maintain thanks to the benefits I do receive.

I understand where you are coming from but it seems to be very much a problem of attitude and not a problem of money. You won’t get the sort of people you are talking about into jobs and out of the maternity wards by taking away benefits; you’ll just get more crime and savagery. Perhaps a more humble humanitarian approach might be better.

I personally will always feel this way. Young girls being pressured I think has always happened because that is what males especially want at that age, is sex. The problem about teens having babies is because people don’t teach them about protection, instead all they say is “dont have sex” and “dont get pregnant”. When what I feel they should say is if you do decide to have sex, you need to use protection and explain it thoroughly so that the person understands why they don’t want a baby at that time and what to do to prevent it. It is the lack of attention from parents that causes kids to not learn anything, parents being lazy.

As for the violence, many people may disagree but I feel the main cause of violence and domestic abuse stems from corporal punishment. When kids receive spankings, to me they learn to deal with issues with just a hit or a smack. Then when they have girlfriends or vice versa that is how they think they should deal with problems and frustration at each other. I am sure some of it may also be media influence also.

I have a friend who is 12 and is corporally punished quite a bit, when she first met us when she got mad at my husband she would hit him. We have now taught her that that is not the right way to deal with things, and just because her parents do it doesn’t mean that it is ever the right thing to do.

@lynneblundell I strongly believe that people like you should be entitled to benefits because it is obvious to me and probably everyone else that has ever read your posts here that you want to give your son the best life possible. You certainly do not strike me as the lazy type and so I don’t think @The_Idler was referring to single mothers, such as yourself, when spoke about paying people to have kids.

Yeah I’m sorry, I wrote a response to @lynneblundell, reiterating that point, but I’ve no idea where it’s gone…?

Essentially what I said was that obviously we can’t just “stop” immigration and child benefit, but both need to be seriously restructured, to reduce to prevalence of exploitation (“gaming the system”), because it seems to be tending towards a huge unsustainable mess, both economically and socially.

@dutchbrossis “The problem about teens having babies is because people don’t teach them about protection, instead all they say is “dont have sex” and “dont get pregnant”.”

It certainly isn’t like that in the UK. We have very good education programmes in schools, regarding contraception, sex, pregnancy, STIs, etc. but part of this problem, as I indicated above, is that these kids have been told by their parents that school is a load of bullshit and the government are lying, cheating fuckers, so the kids take no notice and have no respect for authority.

I don’t know where you are from, but the serious problem in the UK is teens having babies, on purpose, to get the benefit money. Not because they don’t know how to use contraception.

@Leanne1986 thank you, I appreciate that x and thank you @The_Idler too…

I guess I worry though that whilst I do believe there are a lot of single parents out there, and more specifically the single teenage parents that do not hold themselves thoroughly accountable for the upbringing of their children, there are those odd few like myself, even the odd teenage parent that does want to do the best for their children and will get stereotyped and placed in the bad box along with the rest of them. Generally legislation is brought in these days to accommodate the troublesome and solve the problems that they produce rather than protecting the ‘good’ people like myself.

If the benefits system was to be looked at, I’m pretty sure that it would make my life a lot harder in order to simply get the basics and in the long run would not prevent those that are capable and want it badly enough to swindle the system. I would sincerely hope that this would not be the case… but alas I do not have as much faith in the government as some do. Having said that… I’m quite happy with the way things are right now for me and my boy, I am very very grateful for what I do get and I feel sorry for those children that are brought into this world as a meal ticket.

People who see you in the street might have less respect for you, but, seriously, they can fuck off.

Any thinking person knows it is the government’s greed and short-sightedness that got us into this mess.

@The_Idler I didn’t know that. I was stating my opinion on at least some big problems I see with americans