It’s not.

It isn’t terrible, it is actually their idea. Not ideal, I would prefer a single-payer system. I think the fear is that people might actually like it once the bugs are worked. Then you have to deal with the clusterfuck of calling a popular program “Obamacare”.

Here’s what’s wrong with it: poor people will not be as terrified as they are now. They will survive. If they survive, they will eventually fight.

It shows you how much contempt the party that supposedly loves America the most has for actual Americans. They take a bizarre pleasure in injuring people.

It isn’t just the US economy that’s at risk. Think of another country, struggling with it’s economy, and these fucking idiots pull this shit? This is going to be a global disaster.

There won’t be a default. We’ve seen this exact same shit before. The Shutdown II would end right now if the media suddenly disappeared.

Modern American government is a product that we buy every two and four years. Without advertising it would go belly up in a matter of hours.

1) Unfortunately since both sides will say the default is the fault of the other, it won’t really be pinned to anybody, either Bohner or Obama

to play devils advocate, this question could easily be rephrased as “How can Obamacare be so important it’s worth destroying the US economy to continue it?”

2) I really don’t understand finance, but since agreeing or disagreeing to raise the debt ceiling is largely an arbitrary thing, why would other countries allow their economies to be ruined just because the US is having a particularly colorful political seizure? I mean, we may have our downsides, but we’re not some junkie on skid row. We’re good for the money. Eventually. Doesn’t it make sense, from other countries point of view, to just carry on as if the US is sober, because it will be tomorrow morning, and the international community can just forget this ever happened?

Do you remember the words Lehmann Brothers? Think that on a huge scale.

A couple of points. Once Obamacare takes hold there is no going back. We are creating a nation of part time workers, employers are dropping coverage for spouses or dropping it altogether. This is only the tip of the iceberg . Once implemented do you honestly believe that repealing it would undo the damage? It won’t, there will be little left of the old employer provided coverage, thus nothing to go back to. I know many of you hated the old system so you may not care until we get there, but many of us do.

As far as the default you all believe will destroy the world, it won’t unless Obama decides to make it happen. We take in more than enough money monthly to pay our debt as well as run most of the government. We may not be able to fund the study of duck penises but we can certainly pay our debt. That is of course unless Obama decides not to just to make a point.

Oh we are so funny. Each of us, and each group of us, knows -
KNOWS! – which of these play-actors is the naughty one. Meanwhile, yes, the other nations are all stuck to us like glue, it’s a global economy, stupid; and yes, we are in a tight spot from a drama point of view right now; and yes, either side could break the deadlock EXCEPT FOR THE PRESIDENT, whose health-care plan was VOTED INTO LAW two years ago, he can’t take it back, and the fucking Republicans can’t take it back either, so they’re doing what all children do, which is to throw sand in the other kids’ eyes because they can’t win.

That’s funny but if you recall, the debt ceiling was voted into law as well. I guess we can’t change that either.

@Jaxk: I like what you say. We are segueing into a nation of transient workers and mini-entrepreneurs. It’s the wave of the future. The technology we older people struggle with is changing the communication habits of us all, and that changes the business world. Health care will have to be generalized in a world like that; no one will have a fifty-year-long employment stability with some Big Daddy corporation again, everything has to become nimble and efficient. The streamlining of access is the only way. It’s scarey, but it’s not stupid.
And you’re right about the debt ceiling.

It’s terrible because it re-distributes wealth from hard-working folks (white) to lazy folks (black):
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_spectator/2012/10/is_the_republican_party_racist_how_the_racial_attitudes_of_southern_voters_bolster_its_chances_.html

Might as well crash the economy, because it would be destroyed through re-distribution anyway.

Jumping into the conversation…I don’t see how Obamacare is giving healthcare to the poor. Medicaid already does that. Obamacare seems to be for people who can pay for healthcare insurance, or a, I wrong? It isn’t free. I think @Jaxk is half right that once it starts happening it will be difficult to roll it back if we don’t like it. That happened with the HMO’s, suckiest plan ever invented, and generally people still like the mindset of it, but after many many years finally insurance started offering some different options like PPO’s and other plans.

I likemparts of Obamacare, but I can’t for the life of me see how it will bring down healthcare costs, because there is still no control or change on how the billing works in healthcare, nor any sort of additional regulation that will keep medical professionals and institutions from charging whatever they want (some states do have regulations regarding this).

The only way I see out of how the system is run now and how expensive it is, is to really address the lack of transparency in billing, or make it illegal to charge 10 times more because someone has insurance.

I figure the system will really change when there is a mass exodus away from insurance. I don’t see competition fixing it. There is no real competition in health insurance, it is more like collusion or a racket.

Whoever above said that the dems blame the Republicans, and the Republicans blame Obama for the shutdown is right.

I also heard on TV the other day (I have watched very little news) that people are not getting paid and how horrible it is. It was a Republican. If Republicans are so keen on shrinking the government; they do realize that will put people out of jobs don’t they? Eventually private business might take over some of the areas, but there would a mass layoff if all of a sudden we cut the government in a big way. I’m not saying we shouldn’t cut some of our government, I am just saying I am tired of people not thinking things through.

I’m all for waiting and watching to see how it affects real people, not all Republicans hate it because Obama’s black or it’s called Obamacare, we’re concerned for the American people.

So once they sign up and once they can use it, and once they pay their deductible, and see what kind of care they get, I’ll be willing to cede that it was a good idea, but until then, I am leery for their sakes, doesn’t affect me.

I think Warren Buffett got it right – Obamacare is better than nothing, but does not really address costs: http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/warren-buffett-on-obamacare/

@tom_g Thanks.

@johnpowell Apparently, it does not matter whose idea it is, just who is saying “good idea” at the present moment.

@susanc Good lord! Could it be that bad?

@bolwerk Yes, I think is shows just that.

@Adirondackwannabe The majority of the Senate is still manned by sane lawmakers. They may be owned by big business, but big business wants no part of the Tea Party’s insanity either. They may be able to stop the House Republicans from charging over the financial cliff with the World Economy in tow. But it that fails, then we’re staring at what could easily become the first deliberately induced world depression in the history of mankind.

@Blondesjon Yeah, but we aren’t without advertising. And people like the Koch Brothers and the Walton family, with their 200 billion dollar combined war chest, can saturate the media. They would be delighted with a world depression, because everything they don’t already own would be available at fire-sale prices, and they’d have to money to go shopping.

@drhat77 We will see. The latest public opinion poll looks abysmal for Republicans, but they are counting on the idea that if they destroy the economy, the public with its notoriously short attention span will forget who deliberately blew up the economy and blame Democrats in 2014 because a Democrat is president.

@Jaxk I think you are right that if Obamacare takes hold, the public will generally like it, therefore making it harder to kill. But it’s ridiculous to suggest we can’t undo unpopular ideas. We got rid of prohibition, for goodness sakes, and that wasn’t just a law, it was a Constitutional Amendment.

Even flirting with default in the last shutdown cause the US bond rating to be lowered. We could decide to cease everything but debt service and a few vital government functions, but that would not keep our credit rating from being savaged. People’s life savings would be devastated. The US Dollar’s position as the underpinning of monetary systems worldwide would be gone. How crazy do you have to be to WANT this. How badly do you have to want to make sure that those currently uninsured stay uninsured?

@RocketGuy No, it actually doesn’t, but maybe it’s time we start thinking about actually doing that.

@JLeslie About the only cost control was in changing the way Medicare and Medicaid work, making them considerably more cost efficient. Much, much more could and should be done. We should move to a single payer system. But there is not yet the political will do do any of that.

@KNOWITALL I’m less leery than many because living in Massachusetts I got a pretty close copy of Obamacare years ago thanks to Republican Governor Mitt Romney, who then went on to campaign vigorously for the President who would repeal his own idea even though he knew it works. Just 3.4% of the residents of our state are uninsured. We’re number 1 in the nation in that. Red states have the highest uninsured rates, and for good reasons. That’s how they want it.

@RocketGuy I totally agree with the Wizard of Omaha.

@ETpro A lot of people here would rather just go out than go get medical care, I hear it all the time. So if those people are required to purchase insurance, can you imagine the hullaballoo?! :)

@KNOWITALL At least we can take heart in the knowledge that some of the best people in the nation are troubleshooting the problem with the government shutdown now.

@ETpro LOL, that’s hilarious! I did get notification this week that our company health insurance rates are the same as last year although a few benefits seem to be less.

I’m sure there are going to be rough edges. The law can and should be improved. But to call it worse than appeasing Hitler is pretty ridiculous. Shutting down the government and reneging on our debt? Not warranted.

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