A judge decides child support. My sister has 13 year old twins with her ex. He makes 60K a year and only has to pay 1K per month. It isn’t like it is some onerous amount. Golf clubs for the new boyfriend. Same stupid Republican shit like welfare queens rocking a Bentley. LIES!!!

^ He makes 60K a year and only has to pay 1K per month. It isn’t like it is some onerous amount.
For fairness and transparency it is not how much he pays, it is how is the money spent? Where this person pays an amount that doesn’t hurt his bottom line, there were guys I know who could barely pay rent because their wages were levied. I th98ink it is quite plausible some women are using support money for their own pleasure, and I don’t have to be in the party of Twiddle Dee or Twiddle Dumb to figure that out.

Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them? Wear a rubber. I have worn one while the woman said she was on the pill. It isn’t a hard concept. Shit, HIV, more then enough reasons to wear a condom.

Any system is subject to graft, @Hypocrisy_Central, but who would you have designating “appropriate” spending?
Should the payer only be responsible for 50% of only the basics? What about extras for the kids? Does this mean the custodial parent has to be responsible for 100% of the “extras”, like a birthday present for the child’s friend? Or the post-sports-activity meal out? There are lots of other examples I won’t give here, hopefully you get the gist.

I first want to say that a girlfriend of mine pays her ex husband child support. They have joint custody 50/50 but he never wanted to work very much or very hard so she pays him after divorcing him partly because he was unmotivated financially. Before they got married he talked a good game about being ambitious, but that was really not the case. Child support is a mathematical calculation not based on gender, but it is true that men are usually the ones doing the paying.

I completely understand being frustrated your child support might not be going towards the child, but unless the child is actually neglected I don’t see what can be done? Possibly there should be child support caps. Let’s say a man earns $200k and if he has to give a straight percentage it is way more than a child needs to be raised. Children in $50k families still eat about the same and cost about the same as the $200k families. The child support probably makes sense to be higher in the $200k family, but one could argue not 4 times higher.

A friend of mine was an alcoholic, it became really really bad. Her husband finally sued her for 100% custody. It worked. For over 6 months the courts didn’t allow her to even visit with the kids without supervision. When the court lifted that he let her have the kids whenever she wanted but he had been granted full custody so now he didn’t have to pay her anything. I think he mostly took her to court to not be funding her drinking. It probably drive him crazy.

She dried out, got a great job, and has her kids 90% of the time, and he still doesn’t have to pay because of the custody. He does pay for done things, he isn’t a total deadbeat.

I really can understand why a parent would resent paying out a lot of money, especially if they rarely get to see their children and they want to see them. You pay the most the less time you have with them. It kind of sucks, but also makes sense.

Where I work, child support is 17% for one kid, 25% for two.

If a man has his wages garnished, it’s only because he has not been paying. If he is paying an amount that makes it impossible to live, it’s only because he has not been paying and is now playing “catch up.”

Should he? Yes. But such laws don’t exist and never will. The sentiment of the country is that such laws would be too intrusive.

He isn’t “being forced to be a father.” He is a father.

I am sympathetic to women who are impregnated and then dumped. Yes, at a minimum the father has an obligation to pay some portion of the costs for the raising and nurturing of the child. And ideally, the father should play an active role in the kid’s life. No question, no argument.

Where I have a problem (and these points were raised in various questions yesterday) is the apparent powerlessness of the male against the rights and claims from the female? As others pointed out yesterday, unless the male was raped, he had an active role in the impregnation. But so did she.

Yes, most women are honest, well meaning, and upstanding and they truly do want to care for the child. But some small number are not – some do get pregnant for money, for citizenship, and other less than ‘welfare of the child’ reasons.

So a bright line law that says “men are always on the hook to pay with no recourse regardless of the motives of the woman” seems more that a little harsh.

We’re not going to solve this here – it has been an issue for 150+ years -but absolutist policies always bother me.

Not if he is the non-custodial parent.

Then I suggest she be able to call an audit of all the faulty genes he passed on. ” If you don’t want to be a dad, don’t fuck the girl.’

@cazzie – maybe her genes are faulty.

Absolutes are always wrong.

If my ex wants to attribute his money being spent on the wine I drink on the weekends I’m child free, or the sugar I buy or my coffee or what ever he decides money shouldn’t be spent in my life then he could look at it that way. On the other hand, he could also see how many days I have to take off without pay when my son is sick and I have to stay home. (he doesn’t volunteer or is any logistical position to do this) He could see how much I pay on his clothes he chews holes in because of stress and the days I have to take off to see his school for the problems he’s had dealing with teachers and fellow students.

I’m a double threat. I’m an accountant AND a single mom on child support. You want numbers…. I’ll give you fucking numbers.

Actually, it is possible to get an audit of how the money is spent.

But it depends on where you live :

Accountability regulations for child support money vary by country and state.
..a child support recipient might legally be required to give specific details on how child support money is spent at the request of the court or the non-custodial parent.
In the United States, 10 states (Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Washington) allow courts to demand an accounting on expenses and spending from custodial parents. Additionally, Alabama courts have authorized such accounting under certain specific circumstances.

In my state (MN) a request can be made for this sort of auditing – and I’ve never seen it denied.

Doesn’t matter how it’s spent. So she spends it all on a new wardrobe for herself. That just means that it’s her own money that’s paying for the food and shelter, etc. for the kid.

Just what we need more bureaucracy.

@johnpowell Shit, HIV, more then enough reasons to wear a condom.
That would mean there are other batters on the ball field, and on that is the case condom or not, I don’t want to play on it, and if I do, orifice number 1 and three are the only places by wick is being dipped, any capable of making a baby won’t get breached.

@canidmajor Should the payer only be responsible for 50% of only the basics? What about extras for the kids? Does this mean the custodial parent has to be responsible for 100% of the “extras”, like a birthday present for the child’s friend? Or the post-sports-activity meal out? There are lots of other examples I won’t give here, hopefully you get the gist.
It means it will take work to dot as many ‘I’s and cross as many “T”s as possible but it is not impossible, it has been done in other areas. It won’t happen here because of to many pantywaist politicians can feminist cowed men.

@elbanditoroso Where I have a problem (and these points were raised in various questions yesterday) is the apparent powerlessness of the male against the rights and claims from the female?
Yes, because too many men have no spine, they are afraid of they push for legislation for their parental rights their woman will have a permanent ”headache” at night.

So a bright line law that says “men are always on the hook to pay with no recourse regardless of the motives of the woman” seems more that a little harsh.
Because the pantywaist politicians and feminist subdued men see demanding their rights as misogynistic, so they lie down and be parental doormats and take everyone else there with them.

@cazzie ” If you don’t want to be a dad, don’t fuck the girl.’
Guess that will leave a lot of women making a rush online for BOB (Battery Operated Boyfriend), or becoming owners of large breed male dogs, or simply becoming lesbians. But we know that won’t happen, guys will cater to their dumbsticks than their rights, hence the name dumbstick because their stick makes them super dumb.

@Dutchess_III Doesn’t matter how it’s spent. So she spends it all on a new wardrobe for herself. That just means that it’s her own money that’s paying for the food and shelter, etc. for the kid.
That would be deceptive would it not? That would make it ex-spouse support and not child support, a guy surely would want to pay that. They have that already in alimony.

@tinyfaery Just what we need more bureaucracy.
We have bureaucracy, we will have more in the future, so why not have one more that cures a gender hypocrisy since Uncle Sam is hell bent to do so. If there was not going to be one more line of bureaucracy then maybe I can see ignoring it, but seeing that is not going to happen…..

One way or the other, the kid gets supported. I asked my lawyer this same question when we started receiving child support for my oldest, from her bio mom, and that was her response. Doesn’t matter what it’s spent on .

“If guys had the option of calling an audit do you think more would step up and pay knowing there was some vehicle for accountability?”

No. People shirk paying child support because they want to shirk responsibility, not because they don’t have an itemized statement about how the money is spent.

If he really cared that much then he would probably be raising his child not trying to stir up shit because he got hit in the wallet.

Hate to be the dissenting voice here.. but there is a lot of bias in courts against fathers.
This means many mothers are granted primary (or more custody) than the fathers in cases of divorce.
Because the divorce decree outlines these responsibilities (i.e. who will pay for medical insurance, etc.) and calculation of support is based on custodial time there ARE actually cases where an unfit biological parent is not actually caring for the child(ren) and still receiving and using the child support.

Case in point – uh, someone I know who had a husband with an ex-wife who wasn’t caring for the child was receiving child support + the amount to pay day care each month. However, after 6 months the day care contacted, uh..the biological father’s family and said they’d never received payment and if they weren’t paid in arrears they would not only cease to provide daycare but also seek repayment via small claims court against the FATHER.

So, although the divorce decree may specify things each parent should provide, monetarily or otherwise – if the mother isn’t DOING those things (and instead is drinking or drugging away the money) and is in fact not caring for the child (but instead leaving the child with the father—which is good! Or strangers-which is NOT good) an Audit can be a necessary process.

Let’s be clear. The money is for the care of the child. While the parent receiving child support can surely just use that money as part of their monthly budget and not worry about itemizing it (so what if it covered rent? Or clothes for the parent rather than child? Whatever—as long as the child is being well cared for, right?)...when the biological parent receiving support is not meeting the child’s needs and is being provided an exorbitant sum..then it’s time to use the “lever” of requesting an audit.

^ And you got through that with out smelling of napalm, or smoke. Surely no one wants to believe the mother is anything but holier than thou and the father just a disgusting deadbeat. ~~

@geeky_mama What I have seen in the last 15 years for children born to married parents is when divorced the courts really favor 50/50 custody. A lit of my friends really question that set up, because part of the school week the children are at their dad’s house and part if the school week at their mom’s house. Many people feel it is too disruptive and makes developing a routine difficult.

Unwed fathers I agree. They have zero rights to see their children in a lot of states unless they go fight for them through legal channels.

^ A lit of my friends really question that set up, because part of the school week the children are at their dad’s house and part if the school week at their mom’s house. Many people feel it is too disruptive and makes developing a routine difficult.
Then maybe they should have focused more on sewing the thread of life together as oppose to ripping it apart at the seams.

Give me a break. Most people who get divorced try for years to hold the marriage together. Especially, when they have children. They tend to feel like failures that it isn’t working out. It takes them years to finally ask for a divorce from the time they started entertaining the idea. They agonize about how it will effect their kids. They do it as a final straw. Right now I have a friend who after 5 years of thinking about divorcing and over a year of therapy with her husband, finally told her husband she does want a divorce. That was over a year ago. They still live together and still haven’t told the children. They always got along fine in money matters and parenting, they just have no spark and they fight more than she would like and there are more reasons.

My friends don’t just get a divorce at a whim. Maybe yours do. Most of my friends have been married over 20 years.

@JLeslie – your experiences definitely differ from mine. Perhaps it’s the state I live in – but the courts are still notoriously biased towards the mother (married couples divorcing) when both parents are seeking full or greater than 50% physical custody.

@geeky_mama What state are you in? I can really understand why men feel screwed when they have very little time with their kids, and they wanted more, and they also have to pay out more money the less custody they have. It’s like a double whammy. Your exwife gets more time with the kids and more money.

@JLeslie . . . Out where I live they call that the fuckin’ you get for the fuckin’ you did.

@blondesjon I’ve never heard that. They even use it for divorced men? Or, men with children born outside of a marriage?

For any kind of problem regarding marriage and/or children in general.

Oh. Lol.

@JLeslie I can really understand why men feel screwed when they have very little time with their kids, and they wanted more, and they also have to pay out more money the less custody they have. It’s like a double whammy
In short, feminist knew which pantywaist men to align with who were willing to throw every other men to the crocs so they don’t have to use their hand at night.

^^What? I don’t even understand what you wrote. I’m pretty sure it’s some sort of male bullshit.

@JLeslie – I live in MN. I’m not talking about men who are worried about how much they’re paying, I’m talking about a bias in the courts when both parents request custody. It’s not everywhere as you can see from this article it’s only very recently improving—but not so much here in MN, just yet.

In MN, what I hear from friends in divorce mediation / family court law, they are still witnessing legal outcomes (of mediations / divorces) with a bias against fathers. Or, what more frequently happens is that men go into the divorce process expecting 50/50 parenting—but then are told due to their career/schedule/etc. that really they should just have every over weekend.

Some dads choose this on their own, as pointed out in the HuffPo article.

What I’m trying to explain is my experience of having seen a number of wonderful fathers who wanted full custody and were the better, more stable parent for their child and yet they ended up required to pay child support to an unstable, unfit mother. Granted, my experiences are anecdotal.

BTW, I realize this is strongly off the original topic. However, I’m coming at it from the point of view that perhaps a man who originally did not want to parent the child might change his mind and want a relationship with the child, especially if the mother was not caring for the child adequately despite his financial contributions.

^ What I’m trying to explain is my experience of having seen a number of wonderful fathers who wanted full custody and were the better, more stable parent for their child and yet they ended up required to pay child support to an unstable, unfit mother.
Because women thought for so long they were getting the short end of the stick in divorces and Uncle Sam tend to side with them thinking men were the inferior parent, the only way a man could get custody he had to be squeaky clean as if he was he were laundered in bleach and disinfectant, even a pea-sized dimple in his armor disqualified him. She, on the other hand, could have dings and rust all in her armor and Uncle Sam could care less, the only way she would be seen as unfit is if she were some bag whore, high as a kite leaving her kids alone with a box of matches and dubious “uncles” while she was out chasing a fix, and even then Uncle Sam would have to think hard before letting the father have the kids.

@geeky_mama I don’t doubt some states still favor the mother.

Way back in the day children were given to the father. Children and wives were property of the husband and if he was getting rid if the wife he got to keep the kids. He was able to financially support them better than her after all. That all got turned on it’s head in the latter half of the 1900’s. It was even before that women were sometimes getting custody, but my point is the history of custody demonstrates points of views changed back and forth over the last 200 years.

@Hypocrisy_Central I think most men don’t want the 24/7 responsibility of taking care of their kids. Some do, and would never complain, but most single men want to be able to do their single thing.

I know many men who stay in bad marriages, because they want to live in the same house their children are in, but that’s different than having the full responsibility of carting them to school, after school activities, and leaving an important work meeting because the kid is sick.

I don’t question how much the men love their kids, but men are much better at making sure they get to do what they want to do, and kids can put a kink in that.

I’m talking generalities, there are lots of exceptions.

@JLeslie I think most men don’t want the 24/7 responsibility of taking care of their kids.
There are men I knew who desired that, and have, many more would at least like 50/50.

Some do, and would never complain, but most single men want to be able to do their single thing.
So long as they have gals willing to lay one their backs and spread ‘em, some will find that ”guy thing” more important.

I don’t question how much the men love their kids, but men are much better at making sure they get to do what they want to do, and kids can put a kink in that.
Women are much better, they will troop on down to Planned Parenthood (an oxymoron), and get the little nipper sucked out before it has a chance to get in the way of work or class schedules, that weave appointment or looking good for bikini season. Women are much better at avoiding ”the kink in their life”

Keep it up HC. Your misogyny is really shining bright lately.

@Hypocrisy_Central and others

As a single father who basically raised my two daughters by myself – I am aghast at the generalizations being thrown around here.

@elbanditoroso . . . first trip to the internet, huh?

They’re pretty good about 50/50 in Kansas.

@elbanditoroso I admire that, but so many, many, many men do just abandon their kids. My ex did. The twin’s dad did. So many, many single moms out there, getting no child support and no help. There are many more single moms than there are single dads, so it’s not necessarily an unfounded generalization.

@elbanditoroso

And that’s admirable. But for every single father raising his kids, such as yourself, there are several who pretty much abandon their children. This generalization is not without grounding.

@Dutchess_III There are many more single moms than there are single dads, so it’s not necessarily an unfounded generalization.
Going on the premise that is true, how do you think that happens unless some women allow men to dip their wick without purchasing the candle? You can be a baby mama if you did not get naked with the baby daddy.

Well, speaking from the perspective of a ‘purchased candle’..... He still didn’t want much to do with the kids if it meant he had to sacrifice a night out or a trip he wanted to take, and still doesn’t. Thus, he has every other weekend, unless it is inconvenient for him, and in that case, I switch with him so he can still have two weekends a month.. but they have to be the two weekend that suit him.

And honestly, Now, I am much happier as a simple lump of wax without the wick.

I was married for 10 years. We had 3 kids within the confines of that marriage, so back the fuck off HC.