Social Question

Demosthenes's avatar

Should Samantha Bee be fired for calling Ivanka Trump a "feckless cunt"?

Asked by Demosthenes (14994points) May 31st, 2018
62 responses
“Great Question” (4points)

Why is sexist language okay when liberal comedians use it?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/samantha-bee-ivanka-trump/index.html

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Answers

notnotnotnot's avatar

There are no “shoulds” here. Roseanne’s show was cancelled not because it “should” – rather, it was because people made it difficult to be associated with her. The corporation decided it would hurt profits to keep her.

In other words, there isn’t some formula that people can or should apply. If enough people speak up and make the case why Bee should be fired, then her company will have to decide what is best for them. There is no altruism involved in something like this or the Roseanne case.

Of course, 2 minutes after Roseanne was cancelled, right-wing trolls came out in support of Bill Maher being fired for having previously compared Trump to an orangutan. They felt that liberals would be upset to see him go. But Bill Maher is one of the worst (and least funny) people on the planet. The left was begging Maher to be fired as a bonus (2-for-1).

As someone left-of-center, I find Samantha Bee’s politics to be horrible. She’s part of the problem. Would I complain if she were fired? No. But it doesn’t really matter. If there is enough public exposure and voices calling her out, the corporation will fire her.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I think the underlying question is whether Samantha Bee is accurate or not in her description.

Let’s define “feckless”:
feck·less
ˈfekləs/ adjective
lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible.
“a feckless mama’s boy”
synonyms: useless, worthless, incompetent, inept, good-for-nothing, ne’er-do-well

I’m not sure about the ‘cunt’ part, but the feckless definition seems to fit.

Demosthenes's avatar

@notnotnotnot That’s actually one of the reasons I like Bill Maher, because he seems to piss off both the left and the right. He causes both sides to clutch their pearls, which I can’t see as a bad thing, whether I agree with him or not.

And true, if there was enough outcry to the point that TBS felt they didn’t want to be associated with Bee, they would fire her. I guess I’m asking if what Samantha Bee said and what Roseanne said are morally “equal”. Bee is definitely bad for left-wing politics. Her BS is part of what gets people like Trump elected.

There won’t be an outcry from the same people who were outraged by what Roseanne said, I’m sure of that.

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Demosthenes: “I guess I’m asking if what Samantha Bee said and what Roseanne said are morally “equal”.”

Samantha punched up. Roseanne punched down. Huge difference.

Demosthenes's avatar

And if a male comedian had called Ivanka Trump a cunt? If a black man had called Valerie Jarrett a Muslim ape?

Eh. I just get a little tired of all the one-upping (I’ll admit this was a devil’s advocate question). As soon as this story came out I saw all the conservatives saying “where’s the liberal outrage over this blatant sexism?”. It’s all just a bunch of stupid noise.

It’s just people defending their hypocrisy by pointing out the other side’s hypocrisy. How about you’re all full of shit. Except me of course because I’m great :)

ragingloli's avatar

Racism is not equivalent to just calling someone an arsehole. Because that is what calling someone a cunt is.

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Demosthenes: “And if a male comedian had called Ivanka Trump a cunt? ”

You realize that this is quite simple, and question like this make it seem that you are intentionally attempting to play confused, right?

Let me try to simplify this….

Samantha Bee was calling out fascism. Ivanka is a cunt. She’s also married to the daughter of a white nationalist who is, along with the Republican party, destroying peoples’ lives. This isn’t about being “pc”. It’s about speaking out against injustice.

What did Roseanne do? Rather than calling out power, she exercised her privilege and tweeted some racist, Islamophobic conspiracy shit.

“Both sides-ism” is a fucking brainworm that needs to stop. Not everything is equal.

Demosthenes's avatar

But it’s still just being obscene and hateful. I’m not saying that it’s exactly equal, but in the end it’s still bile, it’s still vilifying people you disagree with, it’s still using a word that’s used to demean women.

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Demosthenes: “But it’s still just being obscene and hateful. I’m not saying that it’s exactly equal, but in the end it’s still bile.”

This is – and has never been – a time for manners. Decorum and decency in the face of fascism is obscene.

johnpowell's avatar

In the same segment she also said Ivanka should put on a tight dress so her daddy will actually listen to her.

Watch the segment and it will all make sense.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Im wondering if its on the job or online. Does it make a difference?

notnotnotnot's avatar

I know that this isn’t a question about Maher, but…

@Demosthenes: “That’s actually one of the reasons I like Bill Maher, because he seems to piss off both the left and the right. He causes both sides to clutch their pearls, which I can’t see as a bad thing, whether I agree with him or not.”

How is being a painfully-ignorant Islamophobe apologist for US imperialism a good thing? What are the “both sides” here?

He’s never held a dangerous position, and his controversies are usually just because he is decidedly unfunny and doesn’t know anything. He’s Rush Limbaugh with a more punchable face.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

I wouldn’t call Ivanka feckless. But I don’t think that error is firing offense.

rojo's avatar

No, she shouldn’t.

Neither should Rosanne have been shitcanned.

Nor should football players be subjected to fines for failing to toe the official party line.

As my daughter asked last night “When did we become a nation of pussies who pitch a fit every time someone says something they don’t like?”

Yes, we have a first amendment right to say what we please but with this right comes the responsibility to moderate your tone, control yourself and keep your emotions from running away with you. We seem to have forgotten the responsibility part.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Should she? That’s something for her network to decide. Personally I don’t care ether way.

Patches81's avatar

Society has gotten out of control thanks mainly to the progressives. They continue to fuel Big Brother and destroy free speech. There should be extreme cases where people lose their job because of what they say. America is on a very dangerous path and soon the government will decide if what you say is a criminal offense. WAKE UP America.

filmfann's avatar

I agree with Sam B.
I agree with ABC canceling the Roseanne show. She was wrong to say such things.
Rosie’s statements confound me. I get that she is pro Trump, and she has always used shock as part of her act, but her calling George Soros a nazi is pretty extreme, considering her Jewish background.

canidmajor's avatar

From the article: ”Bee, who made the comments Wednesday night on her show, “Full Frontal,” was criticizing the Trump administration over the separation of undocumented families apprehended at the border.”

Samantha Bee said that on her show, in her persona as political comic/critic.

As opposed to Roseanne, who tweeted as a private (albeit celebrity) citizen, without network sanction.

There’s a difference there.

mazingerz88's avatar

Bee should never be fired imo. Roseanne defenders would try to equate deplorable racism with vicious verbal attack in the name of shaming people like Ivanka and her father regarding their deplorable treatment of immigrants.

It’s NOT the same.

mazingerz88's avatar

Donald Trump is the biggest BULLY in America right now. There’s only one way to deal with bullies. STAND UP and speak louder and give him a taste of his own cruel vocabulary.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Sam Bee apologized, and will probably skate past this one because she herself is a white woman. I frowned when I heard about this, and I’m not sure why. If Bee had referred to the Donald as a feckless cunt I would not bat an eye. Though there’s no question that Ivanka is integral to the Trump mob, my reaction is to vaguely classify her a non combatant or perhaps prisoner of war. There’s no question that the quote issued from the mouth of any straight man would be a career buster. I’m just disappointed in Bee because that sort of tasteless vulgarity is usually what those of little talent substitute for wit.

johnpowell's avatar

Here is a fun fact. Samantha Bee is not from the United States. She is Canadian. Maybe she ascribes to the British version of Cunt. The C word is bandied around over there all the time.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Who is Samantha Bee & why should I care what she thinks???

stanleybmanly's avatar

There’s something about the C word though. To me it’s a BIG one right up there with the N word. Must be because I’m a man, but my internal meters have the word in the far red zone.

Demosthenes's avatar

The word is definitely more offensive in the U.S. than in other English-speaking countries. Acquaintances in the UK told me it’s hardly a big deal there and that men get called it frequently; it’s not quite the same here.

canidmajor's avatar

The “C word” (so euphemistic!) has never fazed me, and I rather like Sally Field’s take on this:

“I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest,” Field wrote on Twitter.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I couldn’t count how many times I’ve heard something like “ya daft cunt” from Euro aquaintences of mine.

ragingloli's avatar

especially not since you lost that finger.

Response moderated
MollyMcGuire's avatar

She would be if she worked for me.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Reprimanding and/or censoring satire is a form of tyranny IMO. Name calling by comedians falls under that if you asked me.

kritiper's avatar

Heck, no. There ain’t nothing wrong with calling someone what you think they are, so long as it isn’t racist or sexist or some lie. Or whatever. Honesty is always the best policy! That’s what I like about the word “asshole.”

Yellowdog's avatar

I want to know how this could be classified as ‘satire

Samantha Bee saw a picture of Ivanka Trump and her baby. What Samantha Bee said had nothing to do with the picture. So how does this qualify as satire?

It was probably an emotional response of her extreme hatred of Ivanka Trump and her anger that she was happy and loving and attractive.

In the wake of Rosanne being excommunicated, it would be normative procedure to eliminate Samantha Bee. I think the public outcry and lost ratings, however, should do Samantha Bee in, NOT a firing or cancellation because of what she said. Her network needs to suffer before any decision is made.

The endless, relentless, vile and vulgar attacks on the women and children in the Trump family are not satire. They are a deeply emotional, unfettered psychosis, rooted in hatred

rojo's avatar

@Yellowdog I know I am pissing in the wind here but here goes…. What Bee said about the picture put up by Ivanka Trump has EVERYTHING to do with her diatribe. Ivanka Trump puts up a pic of her with her little one at the same time that her daddy, D. Trump has ordered Hispanic and other Latin American children forcibly be removed from their parents who are fleeing violence and oppression, problems caused in major part by US influence and policies. in their own countries and trying to reach the safe haven of American shores in an attempt to terrorize them into not even trying to do so. How do you imagine she would feel if someone was to take her son from her? Should we try it and see how she and her daddy feel about it? No, because she is white and she doesn’t have to worry about her children being killed or abused or taken by the “authorities” just to make political points.

If you listen to the whole thing you will hear that the next lines have to do with having Ivanka try to influence her father into adopting a more humane and morally correct policy toward these women and their children by dressing provocatively for her Daddy. Sure, she makes light of the fact that Trump has previously expressed the hots for his own daughter but that was not something she made up but something Trump himself alluded to. Alluded Hell, he flat out said it. So, he/they have no one to blame but the sleazy bastard you support. Bee just suggests that Ivanka use this fairly obscene attraction that her daddy has for her to help out those who actually need help.
So, while I agree that Samantha Bee should have been less abusive with her language (see my previous post) I refuse to let you feign ignorance of how something like this could happen and how awful it is. After all, we are talking about a man who likes to grab women by the pussy and has plainly told us so in his own words. So, don’t try to come off all high and mighty just because Samantha Bee uses a different word related to the same body part.

Pinguidchance's avatar

@Darth_Algar
“I couldn’t count how many times I’ve heard something like “ya daft cunt” from Euro aquaintences of mine.”

I’d say that was an over-reaction, although with two errors in one word your spelling does need some attention.

Yellowdog's avatar

When people cross the border illegally, if they are apprehended and detained, they will be separated from their parents and put into the foster care system.

It has ALWAYS been this way, when adults are detained. This is NOT a Trump policy and it is NOT anything new. It was happening under Obama.

The overwhelming majority of children, however, came here without their parents.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

First of all, it was not an accusation, it was merely a harsh remark and personal opinion. I like that public figure and TV show hosts are able to flex their ‘freedom of speech’. If one person gives another person a harsh remark then that person can also retaliate with another harsh remark and we will have a very interesting debate/drama to see. If you force people to hold themselves and always act under decorum then life would be boring and fake. If one’s action falls under defamation category then surely a legal action should be taken but if it’s not then just let them run their mouth however they like. You can’t expect other people to never oppose you verbally and openly in life, you have the right to fight back if you want.

kritiper's avatar

Calling a person a bodily part is not sexist. Saying a man is better than a woman by virtue of his manliness, is sexist.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

I am wondering how many of us Googled or looked up “feckless” in the last day or so?

LadyMarissa's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1 In place of checking google, I followed the thread until @elbanditoroso kindly posted the definition. I immediately hity the GA as a reward for saving me from looking it up!!! I learned the definition of the other word when I was 14. All the jocks called each other that when they were being sissies!!!

Yellowdog's avatar

Reducing a woman to a body part IS sexist in that it is demeaning to women.

The entire spiel was perverted and implied incest

She probably WILL be fired—not because of the desire of the CEOS but because of the sudden drop in ratings (50%) and advertisers. Ivanka Trump, as usual, has displayed grace and class and fortitude. Samantha has shown classless and sexist vulgarity—the sort that actually appeals to a very small margin of its audience.

LadyMarissa's avatar

It was always a female (never a male) who called me this particular body part.

Trump’s own mouth said that he wanted to have sex with his daughter. I think that is implied incest!!!

Yellowdog's avatar

That’s been said a lot. Thinking your daughter looks hot and that YOU would want her if he was not her father, is not the same thing as saying you want to have sex with your daughter.

Then again, its not an appropriate thing to say, either. Most fathers would never say this.

MollyMcGuire's avatar

That wasn’t satire.

canidmajor's avatar

And yet, when Ted Nugent called Hillary C,inton a cunt he was invited to the White House.
Yeah, let’s talk about a partisan double standard. <eyeroll>

canidmajor's avatar

And by the way, the minute the president stepped in and tried to have Samantha Bee silenced, it became a constitutional issue, as he is pretty much the most absolute representative of the federal government. Censorship as advocated by the POTUS.
Yeah, support that. ~

Yellowdog's avatar

Except, of course, it didn’t happen.

canidmajor's avatar

Yes, it did. He tweeted that he thought she should be disciplined.

“Why aren’t they firing no talent Samantha Bee for the horrible language used on her low ratings show? A total double standard”

Dutchess_III's avatar

Hey…it’s just locker room talk. Girls being girls.

LadyMarissa's avatar

I guess locker room talk is ONLY OK when you’re a MALE!!!
I find the ”p” word just as insulting as the ”c” word & was told to “just get over it” when I heard it!!!

Yellowdog's avatar

he tweeting a thought, is not exactly the same thing as having someone silenced, using the weaponized powers of the U.S. Government of which he is the most absolute representative.

To compare the two really is a definition of insanity.

A lot of you are going wayyyy overboard, defending the actions of Samantha Bee. As of last night, her ratings are less than half of what they were, and most of her advertisers are gone. Ironically, no conservative talk shows are calling for her firing, although many are pointing out the double standard, involving Rosanne.

The Access Hollywood Tape was recorded in private (not on live T.V. using a teleprompter and released on national television after its actual recording as the Access Hollywood was never intended to be aired) and was not calling ANYBODY anything and was not directed AT anyone— and was made over eighteen years ago. Another insane comparison.

It could go either way for Samantha because it was directed against members of the Trump family, which helps her case a lot.. She’s damaged the network and her audience’s approval enough, hwever. But if it had been directed against anyone other than the Trump family she’d be gone by the next morning.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Oh yes it is because he knows his minions will do their best to make it so. His thoughts are their commands!!!

I finally had to look her up to even see who she is. What she thinks doesn’t affect what I think because she has NO importance to me!!! I don’t watch her show. I don’t listen to her. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t have even known that she had opened her mouth had it not been for this post!!!

Yellowdog's avatar

Trump doesn’t have minions. The Washington minions don’t work for Trump. Even the Attorney General Jeff Sessions won’t or can’t do anything. Trump’s legal supporters are often paralyzed by the Washington establishment. Trump Supporters have no power controlling T.V. Networks. But dropped ratings COULD make Samantha’s position impossible to continue.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

As of last night, her ratings are less than half of what they were

Cite the numbers

most of her advertisers are gone

Cite the numbers.

canidmajor's avatar

Oh, @Yellowdog, don’t you know that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome? Like your arguments on this thread, for example.
And you are horribly naive if you don’t think that statements from the president don’t influence policy. <eyeroll>

Yellowdog's avatar

You are ALSO doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome.

But reality remains, no matter what you say or do.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Trump Supporters have no power controlling T.V. Networks

Why do you capitalize every other word?

Anyhoo…

Please tell us how Trump supporters do not control Fox News. Be specific. Not a trick question. Take your time.

kritiper's avatar

@Yellowdog So I’m sexist if I call another person an asshole? You best check your definitions of “sexist!”

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Yellowdog “tweeting a thought, is not exactly the same thing as having someone silenced, using the weaponized powers of the U.S. Government of which he is the most absolute representative.”

Since Trump and the White House insist that his Twitter posts are official statements from the office of the President of the United States then it is exactly the same thing.

Yellowdog's avatar

So how then is it government censorship and silencing an individual or network?

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