“Desperate times call for desperate measures.”
And people have rights, right or wrong.
And people are stupid, generally speaking.

But where do those rights end @kritiper? If they deliberately put their kid’s life in danger in any other circumstance, the law would take action.

The rights of the individual end with the changing of the form of government. Like the North Koreans. Or the Red Chinese. Or when one dies. Or if society decides to kill off all people who can’t pass an IQ test, graduate from college, or pass a test on current events.
You know, stupid people.
It is not a perfect world.

I understand what you’re saying, but issuing sanctions, or restrictions on people who refuse to vaccinate their kids just isn’t the same as violating human rights in North Korea….Otto Warmbier, for example. In my opinion.

What we really need is a vaccine that prevents us believing all the random crap that appears on the Internet.

You don’t think a kid nearly died from tetanus because the parents refused to vaccinate him, @flutherother?

I don’t know about infants, but there definitely has been other cases of young children with tetanus in the last ten years.

It’s a horrible disease. I’m pretty sure if you get the shot shortly after the injury it can prevent the disease. It’s one thing that these parents don’t vaccinate according to the vaccine schedule, but then when a child actually has an accident? WTH?! I really never understood not vaccinating for tetanus and pertussis.

I guess one could argue it is neglect not to vaccinate for tetanus. I wouldn’t want to say that about all vaccines though. I do worry that sometimes doctor’s aren’t on top of counterindications though, so that is a small worry of mine. Very small.

@Duchess III I believe vaccination to prevent tetanus is a good idea. I don’t believe highlighting specific cases, whether real or imagined, to argue that children should be removed from their parents care is a good idea. It’s a badly thought out and emotionally driven argument that leads to poor decisions. It also makes me wonder who“Drew Matthews” is and why is is posting this stuff on the Internet.

Sure….remove the child from the parents because they refused a vaccination. Then, when that works, let’s remove the kids from parents that don’t believe in Climate Change. After all, if the parents fight against the Climate Change power grab, they obviously don’t care about their children’s future. And after that, let’s remove the children from the parents that vote Republican. I mean the media tells us what warmongers, racists, and white supremacists all Republicans are and we don’t want the kids raised that way. And then, let’s take the children away from parents that drive a car with an internal combustion engine, or that own guns, or that have a lot of money or that do any of the other thousand things the left tells us is bad for us or for our children.

@jleslie I’ve always heard that getting a tetanus shot after the injury is too late for that injury, but is given for future protection. I’m not a doctor and could be misinformed about that.

@seawulf575 I don’t see that this question has anything to do with left or right; why are you taking it to the political realm?

I happen to think the idea of removing children from the homes of anti-vaxxers is extreme and ridiculous but this is not a left-right issue.

@chyna If that is the case, and it might be, I am even more pissed that a doctor in an ER gave me a tetanus shot when I had a cut from falling inside my house, and I had had my last booster just 5 years before, and I told them. That was the rule at least back then, that if it was 5 years or more to give the shot. I took it without question, since I had never had any mal effects from vaccines. I had a reaction to that one though. When I went back to get my record for the information to fill out a VAERS form, they pulled me aside and talked me out of doing anything. I REALLY should have reported it at that point, but they were successful in quieting me. Shame on them. As far as I know they had followed the standard at the time, they should have wanted to report it in the interest of better care. It could have been a bad batch, it could have helped improve standards.

Now, as most jellies here know, I get tested for my immunity rather then just take a shot for diseases that the immunity tests are assumed to be fairly accurate. When I had a horrible accident outside several years ago, I refused the tetanus shot in the ER, but it might have been a little bit of a risk, since my last titer test had been done about 4 years before, but it was very high at the time. Finally, after over 20 years, my titer has come down, but is still showing immunity. I don’t know what I would do if I had a high risk accident in the future. I know I will not get a booster any time soon, mostly because I fear a doctor giving me a shot if I am unconscious in the ER.

If it doesn’t work for an accident that just happened then I think the way the booster is presented by doctors at the time of an accident is an outright lie, or lie of omission. When I find out how doctors “handle” patients it is quite upsetting. I realize I might be overreacting, because I don’t know if you are correct or not. Maybe @Caravanfan can let us know.

@janbb Unfortunately, it really does enter the political realm. Who would take away the children? The government agencies. Who controls the decision making for these agencies? The politicians. Children’s Services, for instance, have a set of guidelines that tell them when to interfere and when not to. When we talk about something as drastic as removing children from their parents for a refusal for a vaccine, you are opening up a whole lot of areas that are allowing the government control over our lives. Do we, as parents, have the right to decide on our children’s healthcare decisions or not? If you decide “not” and that the government can make better decisions, you open a door. That door is labeled “what else?” What else is there that parents decide that don’t always match what the government thinks they should match? It is a VERY slippery slope you put yourself onto so yes, this is into the political realm.
Do I think the parents should have gotten the Tetanus vaccine when their child was injured? Sure. But they didn’t. Parents do things all day long that endanger their children. Sometimes the children suffer physically and emotionally and some of those children die. That is a shame. But it is a fact.

As far as when does the government interfere, I think it should only be in extreme cases. I remember there being a case where the government ordered cancer treatment for a teenager. Her mom was going along with the kid, but I think the doctors must have petitioned the court or something. Does anyone remember that case? I was right with the doctors and the court to tie her to a table and treat her. The particular cancer, or whatever disease it was had a very very high cure rate. Interestingly, this makes me think of the other Q going on about giving the vote to 16 year olds.

Sometimes parents who belong to extreme religions that don’t allow medical interference are grateful the government intervenes. The parents are free of sin, and their child gets saved.

Now, there are people who want the government to mandate saving 20 week fetuses born early or aborted (two separate things, but the result can be the same) taking the decision to away from parents. That is scary to me. Babies that will be tortured and likely die or be severely disabled for as long as they do live.

I don’t think the slope is extremely slippery, but it could go too far.

It is my understanding that a shot right after the injury, within a few hours, should kill the bacteria before it gets any worse.

It was the first case in Oregon in 30 years. (Sorry I didn’t catch that earlier. It wasn’t the first in the US in decades.)

@flutherother ” It also makes me wonder who“Drew Matthews” is and why is is posting this stuff on the Internet.”. The question was pushed to editing by mods, with instructions to credit the original source of who / what I was quoting. That’s why the acknowledgement is there, and why it’s tongue in cheek.
My question about removing the kids wasn’t serious, but it blows my mind that they AGAIN refused a booster shot, after everything they put that poor child through. The child almost died because of their judgement.

@Dutchess_III I don’t understand why he needs a booster if the kid had the disease? Maybe tetanus works differently than other diseases though. Since it is a bacteria and not a virus maybe that makes it different. Most vaccines are for viruses.

I wondered that too. I kind of wonder if someone suggested an (unnecessary) booster just to see what they’d say!

Not sure how you vaccinate for a bacteria, either. We need to research that.

Why they give a tetanus shot after injury (for example, in the ER):

https://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/understanding-tetanus-prevention

@Dutchess_III Various medical professionals have suggested to me to get the shingles shot, because I get shingles so much, and I don’t see why a shot would boost my immunity more than actually having the diseases. I asked the ID doctor who used to be here in our collective, and he agreed with my logic, although there is no specific information about it that he knew of.

My point with that story is if having tetanus is sufficient to become immune for future exposure, it doesn’t surprise me that a doctor might not know or might not think
It through.

I’m curious to know the actual answer. We do need to do the research.

Here is more in addition to what @jca2 gave us above.

It’s a pretty unique bacteria I guess. There is a vaccine for it, but it sounds like the life of the vaccine is finite, 10 years or so. My guess is they wanted to give the kid the booster shot to make damn sure they got it all.

@Dutchess_III :Like I have said, I am over 20 years out, and just recently my immunity is coming down. My husband is over 20 years since his booster, and his immunity is extremely high. My mom over 30 years.

We weren’t talking about you, though.

@Dutchess_III I know 3 people is a small sample, but I think it was @jca2’s link that said studies show the immunity looks to last more than 10 years. I had wondered when I had really bad muscle trouble if maybe it was partly related to tetanus. Vitamin D helps significantly so probably not, plus I think the toxins cause the muscle problem not the immune response. I’m not sure how it really works though.