Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

Anyone know why the Dayton, Ohio shooter shot his sister?

Asked by JLeslie (65408points) August 8th, 2019
29 responses
“Great Question” (1points)

Or, why he chose that particular club to shoot all of those people? I heard he was an Antifa follower, have they discovered any more information on his motives?

I can’t deal with all of these mass shootings. Someone yesterday said to me she isn’t afraid to travel abroad anymore, because it’s just as bad here in the US. I’ve been telling people that for years now, but finally the national news is reporting the total number more. Think about it. If there are over 200 mass shooting this year, are you aware of 200 because you heard reports of 200 at the time they happened? You probably only know about 10 off the top of your head.

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ragingloli's avatar

Probably because he was an Incel.

zenvelo's avatar

I have not seen anything on whether he knew his sister was there, or if she was a target, or if it was just a sad coincidence.

While he had searched Antifa on the web, so far it is not clear what his motive was. He did not target Antifa opponents.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I wondered that myself.

My guess is that she was the real target – jealousy, unrequited love, or something like that is what motivated him. Once he killed her, I think he figured he was dead meat anyway, so he shot the others because he had nothing left to lose.

JLeslie's avatar

@elbanditoroso But, the sister was outside in a car, wasn’t the rest of the shooting inside the club? Or, was it all out on the street?

@zenvelo I just wonder if we would say the same if he had been searching WS sites. I watch mostly MSNBC, I don’t know if Fox news is reporting it differently. It was a Republican friend of mine who informed me the OH shooter was googling Antifa. He accuses the left of not calling it out. I’ve always called out Antifa. I’m against any of those violent organizations.

kritiper's avatar

“Buck fever.” It’s a type of temporary insanity that sometimes affects hunters.

As an example, my grandfather told this story:
Once while hunting elk with another hunter, they were stalking the game from different positions. My grandfather fired, downing the animal. The other hunter, without knowing what he was doing, excitedly ejected every shell from his gun, jumped up and exclaimed that “I got him!”. Later, when told that he needed to reload his gun, he stated that he had only fired once and didn’t need to.

Inspired_2write's avatar

Here in Canada the News caster stated that he and his sister arrived together but split in different directions.
Possible that he used her to look like just another person arriving with a “date” etc
Maybe he ‘shot ” her because he knew what he was about to do and didn’t want to subject her to the aftereffects of interrogation, indignation,or simply to spare her of perhaps a bad family?
No one knows what kind of family life one really is living.

No one will ever know what was going on in his mind or what drove him to do this crime, but there remains so many motives to explain why he felt that that was his only option?

elbanditoroso's avatar

There’s this article today link

that says that the sister was actually the killer’s trans brother.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Interesting. When the shooting happened I googled the website of the Ned Peppers bar curious to see if it was a gay bar or if anything stood out. But, now I’m not even clear if shots were fired inside any bar.

chyna's avatar

My opinion only: If the article that @elbanditoroso is true, then SHAME ON THEM! The article says the victim was not out to many, including his family. So the news paper took it upon themselves to tell that this victim was transgender! It was not their news to tell and obviously, the victim wanted to keep it quiet. The article also quoted the National Center for Transgender Equality saying it was important for journalists and police to talk to friends and relatives so that they are properly identified and not misgendered.
It sounds to me like they have their own agenda in outing a transgender that didn’t/can’t give his permission to out him. They certainly didn’t have his best interests at heart.

canidmajor's avatar

^^^^ This. So much this.

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna and @canidmajor Even if you feel the news shouldn’t out the sister, do you feel it is pertinent to the investigation?

canidmajor's avatar

@JLeslie Maybe, but only if it pertains to possible motive, and not pertinent to the news unless that is pretty well proven. The transgender community knows it is at high risk of violence, outing a victim who is not out to their family only causes the family extra grief because of the extra, and somewhat prurient, curiosity of the press and public.

chyna's avatar

Only the police know, or will know, if that is pertinent to the investigation. And it seems from the article that a journalist announced the news, not the police.

JLeslie's avatar

If it is deemed pertinent would you want the information released?

chyna's avatar

It hasn’t been established yet. Now they could fit it in to make it look pertinent without real evidence.

canidmajor's avatar

@JLeslie, only if it is necessary for the protection of others that that be known. The shooter being dead, and no longer any type of threat, nullifies the need for that.
The LGBTQ community is already targeted for violence, so outing one victim of a generalized massacre serves literally no purpose whatsoever.

wiscoblond's avatar

I don’t have the article handy but close friends reported the transgender persons real identity because they didn’t want the press to dead name him. They did it in his honor.

canidmajor's avatar

Thus ensuring that his family will be targeted for abuse in their grief. Maybe later, when the wounds to his loved ones are not so very fresh, but right now seems to be more self-serving than honorable.

wiscoblond's avatar

I disagree.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Antifa isn’t a anti-trans organization. Those two facts don’t add up, to me.

Could it be possible, that the guy was just a fucking lunatic?
I’m starting to get my mass shooting details confused. There are too many to keep track of…

I thought I read he had a fascination, with killing people. That might be a different shooter…

Demosthenes's avatar

Could it be possible, that the guy was just a fucking lunatic?

I think that’s more than probable for most of these guys. This guy was drawn to Antifa, the El Paso shooter was drawn to white supremacy, and the Gilroy shooter seemed to be interested in all kinds of extremism and didn’t align with any particular brand. They’re looking for an outlet and they find one in radical ideologies.

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna and @canidmajor Usually, minorities and people who love and support them, want the public to know they were targeted in a hate crime.

I don’t know if this was for sure a hate crime or not. It seems very convoluted as @MrGrimm888 points out. Something isn’t adding up.

I do think if the shooter was a known WS or Trump supporter, Democrats would be happy to say he targeted transgender people. It just seems possibly hypocritical to me and trying to twist messages to suit a political agenda. I’m not saying you two necessarily are doing that, but I think media coverage and some Democrats seem to be fairly silent about OH now that there is an indication that the shooter was interested in Antifa. I’ve said all along I’m completely against Antifa and it’s destructive and violent ways of protesting, but I have had liberal friends (some are jellies) who have literally said if some people get hurt it’s ok, implying it’s collateral damage in the current “war” we have going on in America.

canidmajor's avatar

Yes, of course, @JLeslie, because the family, still reeling from the deaths of two of their own at once, in a heinous crime perpetrated by one of them, really wants the press and public to pile on even more just days after. Reread my post, I said “maybe later”.

Do you think it’s OK that the death threats, accusations, and harassment will likely increase exponentially against the grieving family?

Do you know why they weren’t out to their family? I don’t, and the issues there are likely waaaaay more complex than a few lines in an aftermath interview would indicate.

chyna's avatar

@jleslie I have no “agenda I’m trying to twist”. I was clearly concerned about the family and what the press was doing to them. I think you are trying to pick an argument where none exists. Therefore I’m unfollowing this question.

canidmajor's avatar

Yeah, what @chyna said.

JLeslie's avatar

I had no idea the sister might be trans when I wrote this question. I was curious about the Antifa angle as stated in my original question.

@canidmajor I don’t want anyone getting death threats. They are getting death threats because a child of theirs was trans? Or, because a child of theirs shot a lot of innocent people? I don’t know any details about the death threats, and I always denounce death threats on every side.

I can only speak as a minority myself that if a synagogue is targeted I want it reported as an antisemitic act, especially if the shooter made specific statements about wanting to kill Jewish people written or verbal. You might remember a Q I did where I was annoyed a lot of people were lumping in a shooting at a temple as a place of worship, or when the news and some politicians called the Charleston church shooting a Christian church shooting rather than what it really was: a black church shooting.

Orlando was a gay club shooting.

It seems the one mother of a transgender child on the Q agrees with me, but I can’t speak for the specific family, they may not want any press around them, I can understand that. Their son just killed a bunch of people including his sibling. Usually, the parents don’t say anything initially, if at all ever. I am always curious to hear from the parents though, and it can be later, it doesn’t need to be in the moment regarding the killer.

Minorities like to know if they are being targeted. I have no idea if that was the case in this shooting or not. I have friends who purposely keep being Jewish on the down low where I live, but if they were shot in a Jewish group, I would out them in a second to acquaintances and friends and the news.

Like I said, this case seems all over the map. The guy might have had no specific target and just chose a place. I’m still confused whether his sibling was shot in the car or in front of the club or what?

JLeslie's avatar

The above was being written before @canidmajor wrote she was out. Or, I should say I was writing and then she posted and I didn’t see her answer until after I was done.

wiscoblond's avatar

Having a transgender child myself I know how devastating it is for a trans person to be dead named. I belong to an online community of over 9000 parents and guardians of trans children and the question arises almost daily. You can’t wait to honor the victim with their chosen name because the media will continue with the dead name. You do it once it’s knowledge that they died. I’ve heard from several parents who lost a trans child due to suicide and it is imperative that they be honored by their chosen name. Some of these parents had no clue their child was transgender until after the suicide. Once they found out they made sure to honor their childs’ wishes. It’s the least they could do.

This was absolutely not a selfish reason of his friends to contact the media. It was for Jordan.

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