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elbanditoroso's avatar

How seriously should we take this British royalty racism scandal?

Asked by elbanditoroso (33187points) March 9th, 2021
31 responses
“Great Question” (3points)

I’ve never been a big fan of the Queen and her dysfunctional crowd, particularly after the murder of Princess Diana.

But this week’s revelation of blatant racism is pretty awful. I’m sympathetic to the Meghan and Harry and totally understand their desire to get away.

Is the royal family really as craven and awful as portrayed?

Where is Ucme when you need his views?

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Answers

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Member’s of royalty are human too.
Being human is a chronic fatal condition.
In the end when are all rotting bones in the graveyard.
-Ozzy Osbourne’s lyrics.
Aladdin and Princess Jasmine both felt trapped. Anyone can feel trapped too.

zenvelo's avatar

The shocking part is that no one is surprised that the Royal are racist. Their reputation precedes them enough that Harry had to specifically exclude that the “what color will your baby be” was not Prince Philip.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@zenvelo I wonder if it was his brother, or Kate. If so, I’d be very disappointed in them.

zenvelo's avatar

@elbanditoroso There is a lot of speculation that it was William. Or very possibly one of Fergie’s kids. I would not be at all surprised if it was Andrew, he is a despicable person any way.

chyna's avatar

He didn’t exclude his dad, Prince Charles, either.

si3tech's avatar

guess I totally missed it! I have no idea what happened ths week?

cheebdragon's avatar

Are you referring to someone in the royal family asking her what she thought the child’s skin tone would be?

JLeslie's avatar

I have my doubts it is as bad as people are trying to make it seem. Meghan did say the queen was always wonderful to her. I realize that could be just being nice to her face and not behind her back, but Meghan seemed to present it as though she believed it was genuine. No one is talking about that on the TV shows I have seen that feel the need to obsess about the interview.

The conversation about how dark their baby might be, I would love to know the details of that conversation. I know if I had a child with thick black wavy hair and olive skin I would be amazed and thrilled. I figure it could have been a passing comment, or it might have been outright racist. We don’t know.

I felt bad for her that she could not get help when she needed it, and I think she said clearly the media had twisted and spun many things.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Considering the scope of actual difficulties in the world, this one is a big yawn. I mean is it really a shock that the pinnacle of inbred snooty monarchists would slip now and then and speculate within earshot on the pigmentation of impending offspring? I suppose any frivolous quip equivalent to public farting on the part of the monarchy is going to be blown up as indictable when there is little else intriguing to their rarified yet tedious existence.

canidmajor's avatar

I think many have not considered the full scope of the potential issue, to be so flippant about this. The British monarchy is a major institution with significant global influence. There are over 50 countries and territories that are part of the British Commonwealth (of whom the Queen is the titular head), that benefit from that status. If the monarchy stumbles and falls due, in part, to allegations of racism, it could destabilize a number of these countries and territories.

Obviously the countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and those, wouldn’t be significantly affected, but the perceived loss of protection to some of the African countries could cause serious problems in the region.

This is all way bigger than “Meh, who cares about the royals?”

LostInParadise's avatar

I seriously question how much influence the British monarch has on members of the British Commonwealth. Monarchies are anachronisms. Why do people pay so much attention to them?

canidmajor's avatar

They definitely are anachronisms, @LostInParadise, but people do pay attention to them, whether such attention is justified or not.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I think its despicable to tell new parents your child is excluded from the title, income or security based on the color of his skin 100%.
With racial tensions and Covid, i would love to see the Queen fix this in a public way.

Strauss's avatar

I think the conversation about the baby’s skin tone is an example of the systemic racism in Euro-American culture. I first thought it could have been an innocent enough comment; then I heard about the exclusionary stuff that @KNOWITALL mentioned above.

When I informed my family that my fiancé was black, one of the comments (by a close, loving sibling) was “You know your kids won’t be white!”

JLeslie's avatar

It was never said the baby was denied title because he is mixed race. I have serious doubts that’s the reason. I saw the entire interview with Oprah and I kept wondering what’s the protocol? I think it was Meghan who mentioned they have to wait fir Prince Charles to be one king. That seems like an issue of protocol.

Even if it is protocol, I do find it odd that they wouldn’t get protection since the media had been all over them, and I would think the Queen wants them safe. Let’s keep in mind they can afford their own security though.

Their children are not the direct heirs to the throne, so I’m guessing that has something to do with it all. If she had been white it might have been the exact same situation.

I don’t doubt some people in the family or institution might have made an offensive or racist remark, but I do doubt the baby was discriminated against in terms of defying protocol. I could be wrong, I know very little about who gets what and titles regarding British royalty.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie This is what was concerning about the titles:

But Meghan said that during her pregnancy, the royal family discussed changing the rules to deprive Archie of the princely title permanently. “I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie,” she said.
Around the same time, she said, there were “concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born.”
.....
Meghan said she had viewed this as discriminatory treatment. She said she had objected to Archie’s not being a prince because “it’s not their right to take it away,” and because of security concerns. She expressed anger at “the idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/world/europe/archie-prince.html?auth=login-facebook

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Thanks for pasting part of the article and the link. I remember the wording as I read the quote you pasted.

They wanted to change the conventions to what? Was it said? Change the convention so Archie could have protection? As it stood he wasn’t entitled.

I did some googling too. Under protocols established by George V in letters patent more than 100 years ago in 1917, the children and grandchildren of a sovereign have the automatic right to the title HRH and prince or princess. At the time Archie was born, he was the great-grandchild of a sovereign, not a grandchild.

George V’s declaration sets out: “The grandchildren of the sons of any such sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have and enjoy in all occasions the style and title enjoyed by the children of dukes of this realm.”

As such, Archie will be entitled to the titles when Prince Charles accedes the throne. George V’s declaration means that only Prince George, as a great-grandson of the monarch down the direct line of succession to the throne, was originally entitled to be a prince, as he is the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.

Here is the source with more information. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/08/why-meghan-harry-son-archie-denied-title-prince-mixed-race

I think a lot of it is miscommunications, assumptions, and that people WANT to believe there is racism. I’m not saying the royal family and the firm are completely without fault or discrimination, but it does seem to me the story is a bit spun.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Yes, and Megan did mention that convention, but I think the word “permanently’ in her quote, is the key to understanding her and Harry’s disappointment.

This would appear to be pure discrimination, based on your post:
As such, Archie will be entitled to the titles when Prince Charles accedes the throne.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I don’t think that nice words from the queen today or next week are going to solve anything. The monarchy has been this way for hundreds of years.

Keep in mind that the Mountbatten (Battenberg) dynasty, of which the WIndsors are a branch, has its antecedents in Hesse, Germany. Germany, in general has a historical antipathy to non-Aryans..

Dutchess_III's avatar

Whoever made the “dark skin” comment, it was about their first baby who has since been born. He’s white with his dad’s red hair.

I am so completely flummoxed. Meghan is one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen. WTH is wrong with them?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Yes! I think she’s very pretty, her eyes are gorgeous, along with her cute freckles. The way they grinned at each other about the future (end of the interview), was quite telling of their close relationship.

And she was doing just fine financially before meeting Harry, worth $4.8 million.

JLeslie's avatar

On the show suits Meghan had a Black father and white mother and I told my husband she doesn’t look biracial to me. I was saying I didn’t know if the casting was believable. Then I find out she actually is biracial in real life. LOL. So, anyone who has trouble with her color I don’t even understand from the get go, because I actually would have called her white if I had had to guess.

The remark about their babies was rude, and I don’t know if that person was worried, disgusted, or just pointing out a fact. When I was engaged I had a person tell me men from Mexico are physically abusive. Just a couple of weeks later I had someone tell me Israeli men are physically abusive (my husband’s family is from Israel by way of Mexico). One family member mentioned my babies might not have blue eyes, but I know she doesn’t care about eye color, it was just a statement of fact. My entire nuclear family has blue eyes, and about 80% of my extended family. If my husband had been blond or red headed people might have commented that I might have blonde or red-headed children (yes there is red in my family). Another family member said what if he tries to take our children to Mexico and you can’t get them back, like that movie Not Without My Daughter.

Ok, so what I am saying is this sort of garbage gets said sometimes out of concern or sometimes off handed remarks that are obnoxious. None of the people who said those things were trying to hurt me, but much of it is tarnished with stereotypes and other prejudices that are not acceptable depending on interpretation. None of it did I see as racist and none of it upset me. I know how genetics work and so do Meghan and Harry. If I were Harry and someone said to me what color or how dark will my babies be, I would just reply, “I guess we will find out.”

@KNOWITALL Ah right, I see, the “permanently” would be the problem. I wasn’t keyed into that. Thank you for specifying. I agree that is a problem. I guess if they wanted to not deal with accusations of racism, they should have thought to change that rule long ago. This is not the time.

janbb's avatar

@JLeslie Do you really think this all about one remark that someone made? It is about a pattern of racism that Markle and Harry experienced.

As an aside, I never experienced casual anti-semitism until I lived in England for a time. There is definitely a strand of bigotry there, as there is in the United States.

JLeslie's avatar

@janbb Do you think not getting her psych care was racist?

elbanditoroso's avatar

@JLeslie Rude, unfeeling, poor decision, short-sighted. Hard to know if it was racially motivated or just plain people being asshats.

janbb's avatar

@JLeslie I didn’t watch the show as the whole scandal doesn’t mean that much to me. I think it’s probably time to abolish the monarchy and has been for a long time But I do think their story wouldn’t have legs if there weren’t a lot to it. And I have seen the bigotry and racism that is a strand in British media and society.

We will never know exactly what went on on either side of this conflict. But just to dismiss her feelings seems naive at best. I don’t think she and Harry would have left if they weren’t being treated badly.

But I do think there are much more important things to be getting on with in the world. (And I realize we do all love dysfunctional family stories.)

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I think making her feel small and powerless, was the goal, whether due to racism or simple dislike. I think it’s very cool that her husband saw it and helped her get out of there. Growing up watching those boys become men, is truly my only interest.

@janbb I’m all for abolishing the monarchy, as well.

JLeslie's avatar

@elbanditoroso Right. Plus, what a few people say should not be projected onto the entire family or monarchy. It does sound like they need to get their shit together, and that some members of the family need a talking to. The statement from the queen was they did not realize the extreme pain Meghan and Harry were in. I find that believable. It is not unusual for that to happen in families. How many times have we heard of husband shocked when his wife leaves and he says, “I didn’t know she was so unhappy,” and the wife feels like she said it a million times.

@janbb I do NOT dismiss her feelings. I take her depression and sadness extremely seriously, and it should have been addressed. The royal family has a history of ignoring mental illness in my opinion, and it is a problem.

@KNOWITALL I do admire Harry for being united with his wife and not choosing the family, which is such a powerful family at that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Her mom is black and her dad is white.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III Are you telling me? I know.

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