General Question

seawulf575's avatar

What do you think of this court filing against Fani Willis?

Asked by seawulf575 (16647points) 3 months ago
87 responses
“Great Question” (0points)

Fani Willis, the Fulton County DA who brought RICO charges against Donald Trump and many associates just ran into a snag. One of the defendants just put in a court filing to have charges dropped and to have Willis disqualified to prosecute. The filing deals with the fact that Willis hired Nathan Wade as a Special Prosecutor. The problem with this seems to be that Willis and Wade have been having an affair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeLFbFbSJnM&t=563s

Wade has no experience with RICO cases at all, yet Willis brought him in to lead this prosecution. She is paying him almost double what anyone else in her office is making, even those with much RICO experience. After being on the payroll, Wade took Willis on vacations to Napa Valley, Florida, the Bahamas, Cruises, etc. These trips constitute her benefiting from her appointment of her lover. This, ironically, could put her in violation of federal RICO statutes if it is found to be true. The entire appointment is an ethical issue for her that could lead to both of them being disbarred, as well as disqualifying the Fulton Country DA’s office from prosecuting these cases.

Additionally, she has now been subpoenaed by Wade’s wife to give testimony in their divorce.

Your thoughts on this filing?

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Answers

ragingloli's avatar

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/fani-willis-subpoenaed-divorce-case-wade-special-prosecutor-trump

“Earlier this week, Mike Roman, a former Trump campaign official and co-defendant in the election interference case who is facing seven criminal charges, filed a motion accusing Willis and Nathan Wade of an “improper, clandestine personal relationship during the pendency of this case”. The filing offered no proof of the relationship or of any wrongdoing.

The motion claimed that the alleged relationship between Willis and Nathan Wade resulted in “the special prosecutor, and, in turn, the district attorney, profiting significantly from this prosecution at the expense of the taxpayers”.

“Willis has benefited substantially and directly, and continues to benefit, from this litigation because Wade is being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to prosecute this case on her behalf,” the motion states.

“He will continue to be incentivized to prosecute this case based on his personal and financial motives, so he has acquired a unique and personal interest or stake in Mr Roman’s continued prosecution. That is, he is motivated to prosecute Mr Roman for as long as possible because he will continue to make exorbitant sums of money,” the motion added.

According to county records reviewed by the Hill, Nathan Wade was paid nearly $654,000 in legal fees in 2022 and 2023 as he worked on the election interference case.

The motion further claimed – without evidence – that Willis and Nathan Wade traveled together to vacation destinations including Florida, Napa Valley and the Caribbean.

The Guardian has contacted Willis and Nathan Wade for comment. Neither have yet spoken publicly on the subpoena.”

elbanditoroso's avatar

Another last-ditch effort by rabid republicans to somehow derail the Fulton County lawsuit against Trump. And it won’t work.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli And yet there is a court filing that now has to be addressed. You don’t typically lay out all your evidence in an initial court filing. Nice try, though.

Another thing that WAS in the court filing shows that Nathan Wade billed Fulton Country for 2 trips to Washington DC to meet with the WH Special Counsel. That is in the filing and the video I linked as well. So, after Willis AND the WH both said the WH was not participating in any of this prosecution, how do you explain the lead counsel for Willis meeting with the WH counsel twice? There is a lot more here than it appears.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Other than kicking the can down the road a bit, I don’t see how this negatively affects Trump.
By the OP’s own words, the guy never worked a RICO case. Willis is distracted by a sexual relationship. If those statements are correct, then Trump should want Willis and her cohorts.

So. With that strategy seemingly obvious, it is clearly just a hail mary to try to extend the trial beyond the election.

It’s also very much Trump’s style, to try whataboutism, and deflection. The strategy is NOT an anomalous defensive strategy. Dragging it out, is sometimes the only real defense for many.

No. I’m afraid I don’t believe it matters, what a career criminal (Trump’s) defense digs up.

Unfortunately for Trump, he has lied to the extent that he has no more credibility. That’s going to have an impact, fair or not.

Again. This should/will be viewed as a potential issue with Willis’ bosses. It has nothing to do with Trump’s case. Nothing.

zenvelo's avatar

”...to meet with the WH Special Counsel.

The White House doesn’t have a Special Counsel. That is an office in the Department of Justice, not the White House. And they are structured so that they act independently from the White House or from the normal governance of the Attorney General.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 This isn’t something that negatively affects Trump. If true, it would disqualify Fulton County DA’s office from pursuing this case. It would potentially disbar Willis and Wade. Basically this case would go away.

And this is not Trump doing this, it is one of the other defendants who knows Wade. But since they are all co-defendants it brings all of them under the same umbrella if it is found to be true. Regardless of true or not, the court filing is done. It either needs to be investigated and found to be unfounded or it is true and it opens up Pandora’s box for the left.

Pandora's avatar

I find it hard to believe Willis would be that careless knowing that Republicans will try to dig up any dirt on her to dismiss the case. Just like they tried to use those two black women to during the elections to get their way, they are trying to defame Willis to make this go away. If it wasn’t their standard move, I would be worried, but I’m willing to bet it’s trash and they are just trying to delay the case. And by the way, everyone has a first time in doing something. Is it the LAW that someone has experience in leading a Rico case?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. Can we stop pretending that either of us are stupid.
You and I both know, this is really reaching and unlikely to ultimately bare any fruit.

If you ARE correct, that the people after Trump aren’t qualified, I can’t see how it doesn’t help Trump. The team would be a blessing to a defense team. The fact they are trying to go after the people going after him, infers that Trump’s umbrella, sees these unqualified, sexaholics, as a threat to their case.

If that is not transparent, I might suggest eye glasses.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Face it, if Trump was President he would send the Navy Seals out to “GET THEM” !

seawulf575's avatar

@zenvelo Ya got me there. It was the WH Counsel…;the one that works directly for Biden. Oops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Counsel. Wade billed at least one visit for 8 hours with the White House Counsel. See Pg 97 of the pdf of the filing.

So question: Why is the DA’s office in GA working on a case that they have sworn they are not working with the WH and that it isn’t political meeting with Biden’s WH Counsel in relation to this case? This sort of gets back to Jim Jordan looking into Fani’s ties to the WH, doesn’t it?

Pandora's avatar

I see nothing wrong with the billing. It is his duty to ask questions and do research for the Rico case. Was he supposed to never go outside of Georgia to look for information about the case?

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora There are three problems with consulting with the WH counsel. The first is that Fani Willis specifically made it RICO statutes in GA so that the DOJ would have no say in the prosecution. That was done so that Biden and the DOJ could say they had nothing to do with that prosecution so it wasn’t political in nature. The second is just that: Willis and Biden have both stated publicly that this is not political and they have done nothing towards reaching out to the other. The third is that as a purely GA case, there is certainly no reason to reach out to WH Counsel. Oops! There is a fourth reason: even if they were looking for information (which Willis said wasn’t needed), you would go to the DOJ, not WH Counsel. WH Counsel is a direct adviser to Joe Biden, not a member of the DOJ. If they were legitimately looking for information on the case they would go to the DOJ who oversees the FBI. But again, going back to #2, everyone swore the GA case was a completely independent endeavor and that the Feds had no interaction with them at all. Since the WH had direct interaction, it makes the entire thing look like what Trump said it was: a persecution of Biden’s chief political rival. Which is really funny. Remember when the Dems said that was what Trump did when he talked to Zelenskyy? That is why they impeached him, even with zero actual evidence.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Did you read the filing? Go read it. I put the link in the original question. There is plenty of evidence there showing malfeasance.

And no, I agree with you that this would help Trump. That was my point of the question. And yes, going after those going after you is what is happening. Fair game as I see it. Just like there is an Amicus Brief at the DC Appeals court showing Jack Smith was unconstitutionally appointed. If they are appointing people illegally to get Trump, why wouldn’t Trump (or in this case, one of his co-defendants) point that out?

Pandora's avatar

White House counsel has access to a lot of information about what took place in the White House during Trumps attempt to overthrow the elections in GA. So are they supposed to ignore that treasure trove of info so Biden would look good? The accused criminal lived in the White House. Let say you have a Son selling drugs who lives with you. Are the investigators supposed to ignore your house when looking for the drugs? Also I’m sure they also spoke to the DOJ, who I’m willing to bet may have sent them to the White House because there is probably information they can’t share. I would think the White House Counsel I don’t think either that making it a Rico case means it all stays within the confines of the State of Georgia if the criminals live elsewhere and may have conducted part of their crime from another locations. If it worked that way than every mob boss would be ignored in crimes they conduct in other states. That makes zero sense.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. Sir. The problem with Trump “defending” himself, is that he often does it through lies, threats, or other manipulations.
Trump is in DEEP SHIT.
He understands that much.
He has pushed ALL his chips in.

If Trump would not insist on fear mongering, pulling the country apart, and inciting acts of violence (many of which amount to hate crimes/domestic terrorism, then I would have no problem with Trump’s defending himself.
Social media is only a court of public opinion. Trump is in a real court (several,) facing real actions that he should be held accountable for.

Saying that someone who accuses you of rape is “ugly”, or “not my type,” is certainly not beneath Trump. A case that although not criminal, he lost.
Because he was guilty.

Trump’s nemesis is not a conspiracy of millions of people. It’s his mouth.

Here he is again, casting aspersions on his detractors, and/or accusers.

When I was in law enforcement, we called that a “pattern of criminal behavior.”
So far. Trump is following his pattern precisely, and some of hid sheep have wondered. But I think just maybe, Trump’s followers are just biting at the bit to see him leave the GOP forever.

Whether its for current charges, or others, the witch hunt will find lots of witches. The dumbass isn’t smart enough not to use the presidential toilet, to dispose of evidence. Evidence not stacked in a room of his.

Trump says, if it’s a fair election, he’ll win.
My logic dictates that if the judicial system is functioning, Trump will be found guilty of multiple criminal, and treasonous acts. And. He will be punished accordingly.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Sorry, sir, this isn’t Trump bringing this case. And it is real enough that there are specifics and Wade’s wife subpoenaed Willis to testify in the divorce case. Saying Trump this or Trump that is completely out of the realm of this claim. It appears there are receipts on all of this.

I will concede that I’m not happy about Trump’s mouth. But Trump’s mouth did not appoint the DA’s lover as a special counsel…the DA did that herself.

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora The WH counsel advises Joe Biden as to the legitimacy of actions he wants to take. All other actions including investigations into anyone in the country would be through DOJ. WH counsel indicates that the Fulton County DA’s office was working with Joe Biden’s office (not the DOJ). That is political.

But let’s dig into your suppositions a little more. “So are they supposed to ignore that treasure trove of info so Biden would look good? ” According to Willis, all this was internal to GA. Nothing there brings anyone to the DOJ, much less the WH Counsel.

“The accused criminal lived in the White House. Let say you have a Son selling drugs who lives with you. Are the investigators supposed to ignore your house when looking for the drugs? ” Well, isn’t that exactly what they did with the cocaine found in the WH? We already have evidence Hunter is a crack head yet when drugs are found, immediately they want to avoid looking at Hunter.

“If they are appointing people illegally to get Trump, why wouldn’t Trump (or in this case, one of his co-defendants) point that out?” Isn’t that what they are doing? And you are arguing against it. So which side of this are you really on?

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. Trump made WAY too many enemies by screwing people, and as a politician, slandering and/or shaming his every naysayer/accuser.

His mouth has got him this far. He will end up being found guilty on some charges.
Like the tape of HIM committing voter fraud, and abusing his power.
Or really, choose your favorite.
He’s said some wild things. His mouth got him in court.
It just DOESN’T matter who is doing what, as long as you remember that Trump’s voice, can’t be flushed. His voice can’t be threatened. His lies aren’t truth, in a court of laws. Or. That’s how it’s supposed to work. Trump screwed up. He got caught on tape. Oh well. Now you do what your precious Founding Fathers would have found descracful, by supporting this man who apparently wants to be King. And such a shameful, abhorrent, liar, and user of people.
This is where your patriotism should be kicking in.
You must know, you’ll be better off with almost anyone than T-Dawg (Trump’s nickname.)

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I have said before and will say again: Trump is not polished. I have said and will say again that many of the “lies” he told ended up being truths too, however. I have said that many of those that come out against him do so with lies themselves. But this question isn’t about Trump. It’s about one of the prosecutors coming after him. It is about the potential illegal activities she has done and how, if true, it will impact her career as well as how those actions could impact not really just this case, but many cases.

MrGrimm888's avatar

A bit off topic. A recent article (wish I remembered the source, claims that studies of dead covid victims indicates that somewhere around 23,000 people died of complications from taking Hydrochloraquil, or whatever LIE he told years ago.
That obviously doesn’t take into account how many may have not died, had Trump not lied about that too.
ALL in efforts to weaponize the pandemic for political gain.

I have said before, any POTUS would have struggled with covid. But playing the people against Fauci because of Trump’s own ignorance and desire to control the narrative, was a catastrophic problem costing possibly many thousands of Americans deaths all because they trusted Trump.

Wulf. Your latest comment suggests you are just a nonpartisan person who wants the justice system to be ethical. So. You would have brought this question up, even if it didn’t involve a desperate attempt to allow Trump to escape accountability for his actions?
Wow. You ARE a true patriot.

All this time, I’ve been selfishly wanting a criminal to face ramifications for his actions… Especially given that he is, somehow still not disqualified from holding a position he never won once. (Didn’t win by majority, which makes ZERO sense.) Holding a position he clearly FUBARed. A position that he has by his own admission said will be abused again, if he gets it.
The fact is, he didn’t just lose in 2020, he never won in 2016. He couldn’t even win his home state of NY…. The people who know him best….

How many lies, crimes, deaths, and removal of rights are enough, for you to understand that Trump is who he is?
It doesn’t bother you, that you are being used, and lied to?
Are you going to be OK watching people get rounded up off the streets and taken? Your neighbors? Your countrymen?
You’re clearly OK with women losing their rights.
I’m also curious about one thing. Who is going to enforce all of Trump’s radical policies? I KNOW he has a small, well provisioned army of bigots, seperatists, Christian zealots, and the like in places like Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.
Has it ever occurred to you that for Trump’s agenda to be followed, he will NEED minorities, other people he shits on, and he will NEED a US army and it’s law enforcement divisions full cooperation?
I know Trump’s trigger happy militia of sheep is behind him. We saw them heed Trump’s call to action on J6. But will enough people actually follow Trump’s orders?
The sheep that took part in J6, are the kind of people that comprise Trump’s loyalists.
Almost all of them appeared to have multiple mental health issues, and we know they were dumb enough to video themselves ransacking the Capitol Building.
Those idiots CAN vote. But that’s the end of Trump’s power.
His only real ability, is getting his mentally fickle supporters thrown in prison, by listening to him.

Wulf. We all make mistakes. You could do yourself, and many others a favor, and stop letting a wealthy false profit take advantage of you. You don’t have to be a Democrat. LOTS of conservatives are trying to distance themselves from Trump. Because they get it.

As far as any J6ers suffering injury or death, they are VERY fortunate. The Secret Service would have had no problem justifying lethal force. There are two reasons that a “fire at will” command was given.
1. The Secret Service members involved were well trained, and disciplined.
2. They were exponentially outnumbered because THERE WAS AN INSURRECTION GOING ON!
Your peaceful protesters brought ladders, firearms, body armor, clubs (bludgeoning weapons,) and a fucking gallows! Do people need a coloring book, or something on their level, to understand that J6 was a planned insurrection? Apparently hundreds of videos of a “Purge”-like scene where people were trying to lynch elected officials. A Speaker of the House, and at the time VP.
Some dumb bastards were caught ON multiple cameras taking position in the trees surrounding the CB, with AR-15s.
Trump is not only responsible for J6, he let ot fester for hours, before calling his idiots off. Unfortunately for his J6ers, Trump was just using them, and many are facing the consequences of their actions.
His confusingly gullible followers, still can’t see that they owe Trump nothing but resentment.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Let’s start at the top. Hydroxychloroquine. Let’s start with the fact that Trump never told people to take it. He did suggest they look at it as a potential treatment. And everyone went nuts, saying things like you are saying now. Yet the National Institute of Health came out with a study that said it was effective. So why the discrepancy? Probably for money. If they have a treatment, you can’t institute an Emergency Use Authorization for vaccines. They would have to go through full testing before saying they are safe and effective or not. And as we’ve seen, they were neither safe nor effective. They didn’t stop people from getting the disease nor from spreading it, and the VAERS database confirmed tens of thousands of deaths attributable to the vaccines, not to mention other health issues. So saying he “lied” about it is just plain wrong. He asked for it to be looked at. When it was it was found to be effective in the right conditions.

As for Fauci, Trump was supporting Fauci, using him as the expert. The fact that Fauci changed his story more frequently than a woke fool changes their pronouns is what led people to distrust Fauci. He started off good. He said that masks didn’t work and suggested keeping distance and washing hands. Then it changed to masks couldn’t hurt. Then it changed to masks were the only thing that would keep people safe. When the vaccine came around he was saying it was safe with no side effects. Except there were. Then he said the vaccines would keep you from getting the disease. Until people started getting it after getting vaccinated. Then he said it would keep a person from spreading the disease. This particular iteration led to people losing their jobs and being denied services. Then it came out that vaccinated people had just as large a viral load in their nasal passages, if not more so, than an unvaccinated person. And groups of vaccinated people started sharing the disease with each other. Then the vaccines just needed a booster. Then another. And a third. Possibly a booster every 3 months for the rest of your life. Fauci supported all these claims. And the pharmaceutical companies made billions of dollars. Basically every thing he said was contradictory to something else he said. Kinda hard to say he is reliable.

As a matter of fact I am non-partisan. I’m an Independent. I believe that justice should apply to everyone equally. I believe that if Trump was guilty of things he should be held accountable. I DON’T ignore, however, reality. I DON’T live to see him buried, unlike so many on these pages. I believe in looking at things for what they are. BUT, because so many on these pages are Trump-haters, this news is of significance to them. Forgive me for bringing it up and not allowing them to live in a stupor that excludes reality.

“How many lies, crimes, deaths, and removal of rights are enough, for you to understand that Trump is who he is?” It’s interesting. At this point, I don’t believe anything that is brought against Trump. Why? Because of all the lies that have been pushed and all the rights people are seeing compromised under the Democrats (or at least the Beltway Bunch). I saw a thing one time about all the times Trump lied. It is something ridiculous like 80,000 times and counting. But when you look at the list, what they called lies were not actually lies. For instance, he said he never called White Supremacists or Neo-Nazis very fine people. He repeated that over and over and every time he said it they claimed it was another lie, added to the total. But the truth is, he didn’t say that. In fact, he specifically said the opposite. Yet the media pushed the lie and counted it as a lie. Every time he said he never colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election (or anything like that) they claimed it was a lie. Then Muller and later Durham both showed he didn’t work with Russia at all, yet those number of lies were never removed from the list. It goes on and on. Basically, some uber-lefty outlet (WaPo I believe) started the list and pushed it, using their own opinion to determine fact or lie. They never went back and printed retractions, never removed what they called as lies that weren’t from the list, and just continued to push what was now, a proven lie from themselves. The prosecutions are even more of a joke. Look at the Classified Documents case. Hillary lost control of tons of classified documents, spreading the information all over the internet. Nothing happened to her except she was given a pass. Biden had classified documents stored in an unsecured location at the Penn Center and again in his garage. It was found later that these documents took a side trip from their controlled area to his uncontrolled areas to rest for a time at an unsecured location just around the corner from what was a known Chinese spy location. Yet nothing happened to him. Mike Pence found classified documents in his possession. Nothing happened to him. Yet of all of those, none of them were POTUS. And surprisingly to those on the left, only the POTUS has the ability to declassify materials at will. Additionally there is a thing called the Presidential Records act that applied to Trump and didn’t apply to any of them. Yet they called out storm troopers to raid Mar-A-Lago, even demanded that internal security cameras be turned off during the raid. Funny how he is treated so differently than every one else that violated the records act. The list of things like this is endless. The impeachment. An anonymous whistleblower, who Dems refused to name or allow to be questioned, supposedly gave a statement about a phone call between Trump and Zelenskyy. He claimed that Trump asked 8 times for Zelenskyy to initiate a corruption investigation into Biden. The charge, they claimed, was that Trump threatened Zelenskyy with denial of aid that was promised to Ukraine if he didn’t do it. Trump immediately released the phone transcript and it showed, in no uncertain terms, the whistleblowers claims were bullshit. Yet the Dems wanted to deny the official record and believe the whistleblower. As proof of the veracity of his claim they brought in a litany of witnesses who all admitted they had no knowledge of the phone call, had never even talked to Trump, etc. I think one guy even said someone in the office had mentioned he heard from someone that had talked to someone that knew that it was all true. Yeah, solid proof. Yet the Dems said it was good enough to impeach Trump on. And the kicker is that they didn’t want the whistleblower to be known because they feared retaliation from Trump’s administration. Yet here we are with 20+ whistleblowers coming forward with stories of illegal acts done by Biden. They are coming forward and testifying and, surprise, surprise, are being retaliated against by Biden and his administration.

The line between reality and propaganda is widening and it still dazzles me how many people believe the bullshit.

As for J6, the videos that are being released now are showing that much of what the J6 committee used was doctored. The raw videos show nothing like what they said happened. Were there idiots in the crowd? Sure. Were there likely agents provocateur from the various agencies urging the violence? Oh yeah…that’s a given as well. But either way, your views of Trump are completely wrong. Trump never called for violence, he called for peaceful protests. And when things started going bad he was on the airwaves calling for a halt to violence within a few minutes, again an hour later, and again a while after that. The “official narrative” was that he didn’t say anything until the last time which was like 4 or 5 hours later. But that brings us back to all the lies going around that weren’t from Trump.

When the Dems stop trying to control free speech (one of those prized rights you were saying Trump was taking away), and they start actually dealing with reality instead of trying to make reality fit their desires, I will probably start looking at Trump more critically. But so far all they have shown is that they will lie, cheat, and steal to get Trump. It doesn’t lend itself to reliability. So why do you buy into their lies?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

” . . . the videos that are being released now are showing that much of what the J6 committee used was doctored. The raw videos show nothing like what they said happened.”

Pictures or source or I call BS !

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie You should know by now I don’t make claims without looking them up already

https://justthenews.com/government/congress/jan-6-select-committee-added-audio-silent-capitol-police-security-footage, or if you don’t like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDLj_KZnZrs

When you add sound, you’ve doctored it. And amazingly the people coming in were yelling “Kill Pence!” Huh. Wonder where they got that talking point? The video cameras in the Capitol don’t have sound. Every video from Capitol video cameras you’ve ever seen are doctored,.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

OH they added audio; they didn’t alter the video.

Pandora's avatar

@seawulf575 Do you know for a fact that all these accusations are fact. If I learned anything from trumps lawyer, Guilianni is that any lawyer can accuse someone of a crime and go to court without any proof. A DA would not want to do that, but a lawyer defending Trump would easily make up stories. Especially if it can delay things because they know they will lose. So until this is settled then I won’t believe anything Trumps team or republicans trying to save him say.

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora The accusations against Willis? Nope. I know the accusations were made in a court filing which I posted on the question. I know, as part of that filing, that they can track back how much Wade was paid for services to Fulton County. I know, as a part of that filing, that he billed Fulton County for meeting with the WH Counsel. I know Trump did not make the filing, one of his co-defendants did. These are all facts. I suspect that these charges wouldn’t be made without some sort of solid evidence to back them up. On this high profile of a case, making shit up that would easily be disproven wouldn’t be a good tactic for a defendant.

If you look at my question I have merely stated this was put in and what potential consequences might be IF it is true.

As for accusing someone of a crime without any proof, I am well aware of that trend. The Dems have been doing that to Trump for some time. Look at the fraud case. The “evidence” that the judge ruled on was nothing more than what she said properties were worth. That isn’t proof, that is accusation. When the Judge rules before the trial even starts, that is a sham. Look at what the CO supreme court ruled on the Ballot case. They basically said Trump was guilty of insurrection so he was not eligible to be on the ballot. There haven’t been any charges made of insurrection, none of the J6 defendants were charged with insurrection, there wasn’t a court case to cite, yet based on left wing opinions alone, they held him guilty of insurrection. Why bother with a trial? Evidence doesn’t seem to matter, standard procedure doesn’t seem to matter…just what you want the outcome to be seems to be all that matters. So by that standard, even if this WERE all made up (and I don’t believe it is) that should be enough to hold her accountable for her actions…even if they never happened.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. I buy into Trump’s own words.
I think I’ve mentioned before that I used to listen to him on Howard Stern 25 years ago too. I want Trump to be responsible for his obvious crimes.
Let me guess. You have a great explanation for Trump committing voter fraud, in the recording?
That single incident, is enough to at LEAST disqualify Trump from running again. And he committed a crime on tape.
It’s SO pathetic.
J6 was not computer animation, and Trump was responsible.

With all due respect, you don’t understand how vaccines work.
In addition, vaccines have an undeniably successful record.

Polio, Cholera, and yes Covid, amongst other things. We even found out where Bin Laden was, by stealing DNA while vaccinating/helping people.

In almost every case, the virus is far more dangerous than the risk of a harmful vaccine.

I hope you aren’t sending Trump your hard earned money.
Trump has never earned anything. He only profits from screwing people. His only talent is having his father leave him $400,000,000. Money never taxed appropriately.
And THAT’S the case that he can never fully avoid.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 The “voter fraud” is him looking for a recount to verify election results prior to being certified. Nothing wrong with that.

J6 was not a computer animation. But it was a propaganda exercise. You may not want to admit it, but it was. Yes, there was some violence. I’m certainly not forgiving those folks. But it wasn’t the “insurrection” and it is even questionable if anyone was calling for Pence’s death. If it was so cut and dried, why did the Dems have to add a sound track to videos that have no sound? Hell the whole thing was no where near as bad as they painted it. Remember also that it was the sound track that was added where the claim they were calling for Pence’s hanging came from. As for Trump being responsible for it, he was, indeed responsible for holding a rally. That’s about it. Everything else is propaganda. And the J6 committee had to alter that video as well so it gave them a narrative they could use to paint their narrative and that the MSM would spread for people to eat up. Again, if it was real why do you have to edit important parts out? Shouldn’t the facts actually stand by themselves?

As for vaccines, I certainly do understand how they work. I was in the military and have been vaccinated against more things than I can count. Unfortunately I don’t believe you understand how the Covid vaccine works. And if it worked so well, why did it kill more people that every other vaccine we have on record…combined? If it worked so well, why did they have to keep changing the story on how well it worked? If it worked so well, why do you need boosters every couple months for it to be even vaguely effective? I can challenge you on all of these things because somehow, in your mind, you have conflated vaccines and DNA tests. I’m not sure you fully understand how either work.

As for supporting Trump, I’ve never sent him a dime. The last candidate I sent money to was Ralph Nader. Something about not taking big donations from big companies appeals to me and I thought I’d help out. And all the bric-a-brac…the MAGA hats, the tee shirts, the signs, the flags…I’ve never bought any of those either.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Vaccines cover the most common/current strain of a virus.
Viruses mutate faster than almost anything. The constant/quick mutations are how these viruses jump species,
and grow immune to Vaccines.

When you get the flu shot, it’s different every year. It has to be researched and developed for each strain.

Covid 19, isn’t the same as the Omacron variant.

I’ve been vaccinated at least 5 times for Covid. You HAVE to keep up to date, to be protected from the newer strains.
Personally, I haven’t gotten any form of Covid, although I spend more time in medical facilities than most people.
No side effects, at all.

I have NEVER ONCE heard that the Covid vaccine REALLY hurt anyone. There are always a small amount of people who have issues with any vaccine. Same with ANY medical study.

COVIDvaccinefacts.org reports that there were over 300 million vaccines of three different manufacturers administered in the US. Of those 300 million, a bit more than 5,000 people who were vaccinated did die. But causes of death, were wildly varied. It also doesn’t list the idiots who only got vaccinated once they were already sick.

(For you,) let’s just say 6,000 people died from the vaccines.
So 6,000, out of 300 million. That’s like 0.2%...
And we KNOW, that lots of those deaths were from complications of respiratory illness. NOT people dropping dead as soon as the vaccine enters the blood.

If you can find a doctor that will advise you not to get vaccinated, I would no longer trust them.

As far as Trump junk, I don’t see the attraction.
I have lots of opinions, but I don’t usually advertise them. Somebody wearing Trump gear, is a potential target of lesser minds.
It’s ridiculous with both parties now. Multiple GOP members have been “swatted.” To me, that’s almost as dangerous as the nut job who beat Pelosi’s elderly husband with a hammer.

Trump’s likeness is on several firearms in my local gun stores.
His swag, is usually pretty offensive, by design.

I’m glad no Antifa member will hit you with a brick, over a red hat.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie if this news is correct it must give you a bigger boner than you had on your wedding night.
Especially if it gets this case dismissed that would make you mess your pants.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 During the Covid period, we did this discussion about the Covid vaccine. I even did a search of the VAERS database and found 20,000+ deaths were caused by the vaccine. I posted how to do the search, which parameters to enter, and others verified it. Interesting side-note, a couple weeks later I did the exact same search and suddenly that number was down to11,000. Still extraordinarily high but no explanation how the number could cut in half. More manipulation of numbers by a group in the government that didn’t like what they were seeing, I guess. But that was just deaths. There were even more, significantly more, adverse reactions that didn’t result in death. The Covid vaccine that was pushed on everyone was an experimental vaccine, using technology that had never been approved for use in the 30 years since its discovery. It could never get past trials. Vaccines are supposed to introduce usually a dead virus into your body so your immune system can act as it is supposed to and create antibodies. The Covid vaccine took up residence in the body and when the appropriate intruder, and ONLY the appropriate intruder, entered the body the Covid vaccine would start sending out spike proteins. It actually weakened the immune system by not making it work. And while you need to get boosters for some vaccines periodically there has never been one that needed boosters every couple months. And while your analogy of Covid not being the same as Omicron is correct, it is similar enough that if you had antibodies it would help. And you also need to admit that the vaccine they gave was the exact same for both strains.

But we are WAY off track on this thread.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And if this news it true, it must wilt your boner so much it’ll never be useful again.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Dodge, duck, deflect, repeat typical Rep/con fashion you are very good.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 There is a case filing against one of those bringing charges against Trump. That case shows ethics violations that border on RICO violations. In the information from that filing it shows also that the STATE investigation into Trump coordinated with Biden’s White House directly. Not the DOJ, not Dems in the Senate or the House, but the WH Counsel. These are all indisputable facts. I’ve posted the filing in the question. Another fact is that Fani Willis has been subpoenaed by Wade’s estranged wife to testify in Wade’s divorce case. Why would she be subpoenaed if there weren’t something for her to testify to? If you were getting divorced, would you subpoena your wife’s boss if he had nothing to do with the divorce? That makes no sense. It would be extra cost and would hurt your case. Another fact is that as of today, neither Wade nor Willis have confirmed or denied the allegations. If they are completely false, say that and show the receipts. Not saying anything tells me that the allegations are true. Why do I believe that? Because if they were false, you could easily prove they were false and stop the investigations into you. If they were true and you SAY they are false, when the truth comes out you will look as if you were trying to cover it up, hurting your credibility even more. And if you just flat came out and said they were true, you’d hasten your demise.

There is another part of this filing that isn’t as obvious but does look extremely odd. Wade’s divorce records were sealed in February of 2022. It would be interesting to see who asked them to be sealed and why.

Now, with facts, citations, and logical reasoning being presented by me, how exactly am I deflecting?

MrGrimm888's avatar

You see @seawulf575 , this is the problem with modern/current politics.
People disagree on what facts are. To save a lengthy back and forth, where neither of us change our opinions, I’ll just make sure you know, that I am aware of how hard it is, to find untainted “facts.”

My phone had an article today (Jan 14/24) by CNN, about Europe preparing to try to “Trump proof Europe,” in the event he is reelected. You may not like CNN, I don’t know, but the story speaks volumes about how people who aren’t smitten with Trump see the very real concerns/instability he brings to every scenario.

I don’t care if Mark Furman recorded Trump. Trump hung himself, with HIS words. You seem far less concerned about justice, or the future of this country, than who his prosecution is fucking.
Considering Trump recently lost HIS civil case about HIS sexual behavior, makes this extra hypocritical.

If you want Hillary, Bill, or Biden to EVER be held accountable (you know I do too,) you should understand that punishing Trump is essential. We have to start making it crystal clear that people in power AREN’T ABOVE THE LAW.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Facts are facts. When I post the original documents, the facts are there. They are interpretations, they aren’t opinions, they are black and white facts. Yet when I present these facts, so many either don’t want to read it because then they would have to accept it or they want to deflect.

And your logic is screwed. “If you want Hillary, Bill, or Biden to EVER be held accountable (you know I do too,) you should understand that punishing Trump is essential. We have to start making it crystal clear that people in power AREN’T ABOVE THE LAW.” The problem is that Hillary and Biden have NOT been held accountable and they committed their crimes long before Trump came down the escalator. Hunter has NOT been held accountable. If it turns out Bill was on video screwing a 12 year old with Epstein, he will likely not be held accountable. None of the people that perpetrated the Russia Collusion hoax have ever been held accountable. None of the lies perpetrated by the MSM have ever resulted in them being held accountable except in extreme cases when someone brings a defamation lawsuit (see Nicholas Sandmann). So with all these people who, amazingly, are all on the left are not held accountable, to be screaming for justice against Trump is extremely hypocritical. The standard for prosecution and for what is acceptable was set with all these things. Holding Trump to a different standard proves the two-tiered justice system those of us on the right have always complained about really does exist. Wouldn’t you agree? Or are you really that stewed in the Hate-Trump propaganda that you cannot agree with that?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

One thing that I think your hate for Democrats blind you Wulfie, do you not think that these facts you boast about ,that if they had any real bite to them your beloved Fright wingers would not have acted on them and made those evil left wingers indeed accountable?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Let me be clear.
Trump is a threat, to national security. An active threat.

Remember why you claim that the Mexican border is more important than the Canadian border? To paint Trump’s Wall as not racist.
I’ll speak so Trumpers can understand.
Trump=Mexico
Bill and whatever else happened on Epstein’s Island (stuff Trump could easily be part of,) = Canada.

I’m afraid I don’t believe that I am any sort of victim of propaganda.
As for your “facts.” I’m glad you are so confident. I remain under the realistic impression that I am probably wrong sometimes.

Yes. I’m filled with Trump-hating propaganda. You got me pegged. You’re too good for me. You knew Bill was POTUS before Trump and everything. I’m lost.

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seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Like @MrGrimm888, your have it backward. Your hatred of Trump blinds you. The facts do have bite. The judge has already ordered a hearing for the details to investigate the entire affair. And you make it sound like I created the facts. I didn’t. Show me one thing I have stated is a fact that is not. Trying to make it sound like they are not facts or something I created is just your effort to downplay and deflect.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 At the time of the investigation, so was Hillary. She was Sect of State. Actually, at the time ANY of those that had classified documents that got out of control had the documents, they were ALL in positions to be threats to national security. And you completely ignore that Trump had the ability to declassify the materials AND he always had Secret Service at Mar-a-Lago who would keep random strangers from entering his home. You are fear-mongering. Stop it. That is beneath you.

And now you are deflecting to border issues. Again, you are better than that. Yep, some bad things come from the Canadian border. But you are manically trying to make it sound as bad as the southern border. It is the southern border that is being abused, not the northern. Why? Because there are a whole lot of countries south of us and only one north. All the drug cartels are south of us, not north. Most of the human trafficking comes to this country from the south, not the north, because the more organized

And I’m completely baffled by why you would equate Epstein Island with Canada. Epstein was American born. Clinton is American born. Trump is American born. Most, if not all, of the girls he got were from Florida. Yes, some like Virginia Guiffre were not from Florida but that was where they were found. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Regardless of what you think I know, I do know the definition of futility.
Additionally I am capable of observing the futility in trying to use logic, with Trumpers.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@MrGrimm888 ^^^ I wish I could give you a million GA’s for that answer!

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 How would you know if using logic with “Trumpers” is futile? You haven’t done it yet. You have tried to hold Trump to a standard that you refuse to admit was applied to Dems. You defend the decisions when it was with the Dems and say they are horrible when applied to Trump. That isn’t logic…it’s partisanship at the very least and demented at worst.

seawulf575's avatar

Now we have a response (of sorts) from DA Willis. She went to church and made a speech. In this speech she embraces Christianity and says she and God talk frequently. She says God put her into her position. She even admonishes God for not telling her all the hard times she would have to face.

Then she pulled out a whole deck of race cards and started dealing them out. It is racism that people don’t like Nathan Wade and it is racism that makes them want to try and hurt her by criticizing her choice for chief prosecutor. She make a whole lot of other claims along this same line, but always dodges that she is having an affair. Though, to be fair, at one point she does say she isn’t perfect and has done bad things. But God will forgive her.

So I’m curious. I saw a question about Trump running an ad that claimed he was put into his position by God. All of the lefties in the crowd immediately jumped on this as showing how hypocritical he was and how delusional. Do these same jellies feel the same about Fani Willis? She literally said he put her into her position and God led her to it. She said she talked frequently to God and that they talk like regular folks. So obviously she says God talks to her as well. Are the same admonitions you felt applied to Trump also going to be thrown at Willis?

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

But like usual you will just scoff at it and go on defending your beloved .
And boy you’re confusing you say the Bidens are the biggest crime family since Capone, then the very next breath say Joe has really bad dementia and can barely tie his shoes , and Hunter couldn’t keep a job working at the 7/11, and yet they are a huge crime family, uh OK.
And you say we drink the cool aid?

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

Here is another saying they were wronged by Trump..
https://youtu.be/sBr8hbtyMtk?si=swU2grmDHe0W-vwe

But quickly jump in and defend your hero.

seawulf575's avatar

Maybe I should just ignore your statements as you ignore mine? I point out things Biden and the Dems have done to hurt the same people you claim are Trump victims and yet you just ignore it. Sorry, a 7 year old video from a news organization that was, at the time, entirely anti-Trump doesn’t show anything.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie you give him a pass for going bankrupt and screwing contractors out of their earnings, but he buys the project back for pennies on the dollar, and he has done it like half a dozen times and your fine with it? And now he might beat the Georgia case on a technically,he is still guilty as fuck in that case,but that doesn’t matter because after all he was appointed by God and can do no wrong and is above the law.

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora That is a fine article if the only issue were that Willis and Wade were having an affair. But he has taken her on many vacations with money she was paying him through the Fulton County DA’s office. That is known as a kickback. And the amount that was spent borders on RICO violations. Funny that the article didn’t really address that. It also avoided looking into the new law that Kemp just signed into law last year. It is all about investigating and punishing DAs. There is plenty in there that their actions violate.

There is enough coming out, that if true, would disqualify and possibly disbar Willis and Wade. That is not to say the case necessarily comes to a close. However there are a couple things to consider. First, if Willis is disbarred, since she is THE DA in Fulton County, that puts a stain on the entire DA’s office. The entire office may be questionable. Secondly, if you take Willis and Wade away, you now need someone who wants to pick up this case and prosecute it. The argument could be made that Willis only took this case up to open the piggy bank so she and her lover could benefit. There are lots of unknowns on this one. But the judge is taking it seriously enough to order Willis to respond to allegations and to be prepared to argue it in court. Standing up in church where you aren’t under oath is a far cry from making shit up in Court under oath. If she said the things she said in church in court, she’d be guilty of perjury.

seawulf575's avatar

Now the superior court judge has lifted the seal on Wade’s divorce filings. The public now knows some of the facts. Many of the claims in the filing by Roman’s attorney are now shown to be true or at least so likely as to be valid. So now there IS evidence of the claim. Does this change anyone’s view of this filing?

jca2's avatar

I didn’t really have an opinion because I didn’t know that much about the details, and I still don’t. It will be interesting when the details come out.

Pandora's avatar

@seawulf575 She won’t be disbarred for any of that.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Someone thinks Trump’s case be thrown out @Pandora! ! ^^^^^^^^

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora Having an affair with a subordinate is an ethics violation. Awarding that subordinate with unwarranted benefits is a huge ethics violation. Receiving kickbacks in the form of gifts from the money you paid to that subordinate is criminal. That is taxpayer money she is working with, giving to her lover, and then taking advantage of. That is enough to get her disbarred. And the Georgia House/Senate are already looking at those things.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 One of the excuses for the initial filing by Roman’s atty is that there was no “evidence” presented. That is why the judge ordered a hearing on the matter for 2/15/24. The evidence was part of Wade’s divorce case which was sealed and unavailable to the public. Yesterday the judge unsealed the case because it was illegally sealed in the first place. And the evidence was there for all to see. Charge card statements showing Wade paying for plane tickets for himself and a Fani Willis to fly to San Francisco followed by payments to a hotel in the Napa Valley when they got there. It showed payments for flights to Miami. It showed purchases for tickets on cruise lines.

All of this shows Wade and Willis had something going on. To suggest it was business related falls flat as there was no business related reason for these excursions. Besides, Wade didn’t bill for hours during these excursions, unless some of his billings of “24 hours of continuous service” on the case matched up to these times.

So the evidence paints a pretty clear picture. Even her own lawyer tried throwing Wade under the bus so she wouldn’t have to testify at his divorce trial, basically admitting to the affair in the process. And to be clear, it paints a really ugly picture of an ethics violation as well as a gross use of tax payers money as well as kick backs to her.

jca2's avatar

Very interesting @seawulf575. I’m sure more details will emerge as they investigate.

It sounds like more likely a chance of her being kicked out of her position as an elected official. Not sure about what constitutes a case for disbarment.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 I suspect having an affair is not grounds for disbarment. I suspect embezzlement is. What Willis is doing borders on RICO violations. But disbarment is on the table. That would have to come from the GA Bar Association who will likely wait to see what comes of the hearings that are coming up.

The true unknown is if the cases against Trump and his co-defendants would be thrown out. The original filing from Roman’s atty lists prosecutorial misconduct as the reason. Not sure what GA law is. But at the very least, if all this rolls out and Willis is removed from office and Wade is tossed out, that will cast a doubt on much of the proceedings so far. GA could pick up the case, but the questions they would have to answer would be piled so high, I’m not sure they would. How tainted the current proceedings are would have to be evaluated, I would think, to see what could and couldn’t be used, how far back they’d have to go to restart the case, etc. And I suspect without a prosecutor who campaigned on getting Trump and who has worked with the government, no one else is going to want to push it.

seawulf575's avatar

And now Fani Willis is actually the scene of a number of investigations. Articles of Impeachment have been brought against her by the State House. The State Senate has called for an investigation. There are US House investigations starting into her actions. The Fulton County Auditor is investigating misuse of funds. And let’s not forget the judge in the Trump trial has given Willis two deadlines: one by this coming Friday to give written response to the charges brought by Roman’s atty and then a follow up, public hearing on the 15th to have the matter evaluated.

So, to all my lefty Jellies, isn’t your litmus test the idea that all the accusations show guilt? Isn’t that how you apply it to Trump? Someone accuses him of something and with all the trials you just know he is guilty as sin. Are you going to apply the same logic here?

jca2's avatar

I give her credit – she comes out swinging on the witness stand. She’s standing by her man.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Yep, she came out belligerent, authoritative, and demanding. But her answers didn’t fool anyone. It amazes me how she is 100% certain of some events in the past, including details, if she thinks it helps her case. But when asked about something from the same time that will hurt her case, she suddenly can’t remember that far back. She pays all her friends with CashApp except for Wade who she suddenly only pays with cash. ??? Nah, doesn’t pass the smell test. I did particularly love her one statement when she wanted to show her claws that “one person testifying under oath is evidence. I’ve given you that evidence. I take offense that you are calling me a liar when I just gave you all the evidence you need.” Imagine if Trump did that: “DA Willis, I didn’t do anything like what you are accusing me of doing. One person testifying under oath is evidence. You have all the evidence you need to drop this prosecution. I take offense that you are calling me a liar when I just gave you that evidence.” Think it would fly? Think she should just drop charges based on that?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 You’re hoping Fani sez “I won’t continue in court on your. belligerent, authoritative, and demanding.” Fuehrer wannabe!

Maybe you should offer to go down and interrogate her in court; for for FASCIST leader ? ?

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Sorry hoss, I don’t expect her to do anything but deny, deny, deny, regardless of how foolish and improbably and unprovable her denials are. But thankfully it isn’t up to her or me. It’s up to the court. And given that all that has to be proven is the appearance of impropriety, I think it’s a slam dunk that she and Wade will be pulled off the case. If the case is still viable, which is unlikely, it could conceivably continue under someone else. But now you are having to come up with someone that actually is willing to jump on it. And with half her staff lining up to testify against her if necessary, it is unlikely to get a lot of support.

This was a Democrat driven, political prosecution designed to interfere with the 2024 election. She even got help from several completely unrelated lawyers from other Dem outlets including Soros’ Open Society. But even if the case is still viable, it will take time to find someone that can pick up the case and then it will have to proceed. It isn’t likely to get done any time soon and will probably fail anyway.

Another thing to consider is that Willis and Wade aren’t done with the attacks yet. There are ties to the DOJ, the WH, Kamala Harris, and the J6 committee that need to be looked at. There are all sorts of ethics charges that need to be considered in GA. There are potential criminal charges in play. And she and Wade have shined a bright light on some of their sketchier money shenanigans that, if the IRS weren’t corrupt, could result in them facing tax issues. It is possible that one or both of them could face perjury charges and be disbarred. I can sit back and watch them, after digging themselves into a hole, just keep digging.

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jca2's avatar

Verdict is in. She can stay on the case if the lover goes (from the case). There was nothing wrong but it gives the appearance of impropriety, according to the Judge.

seawulf575's avatar

Pretty predictable result. But she isn’t out of hot water yet. There are all sorts of new things popping up every day. We’ll see what the future holds for her.

jca2's avatar

I think it will give an interesting basis for appeal, if Trump is found guilty.

I said from the beginning it will be interesting.

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