Fluther: Why didn't anyone read the stimulus bill?

Your beliefs are irrelevant if they’re not based on facts.

Qingu (21185

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So did you read it?

Simone_De_Beauvoir (39052

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@Qingu What are you talking about?

While technically, no, I have not read the bill, I have read the complete list of everywhere it spent money and how much.

pikipupiba (1629

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@pikipupiba
yes, i read that list too – a lot of the money went to good causes, some of it didn’t, certainly, and yes, I bitched about it but overall, given everything into consideration, I’d still vote in favor of it – I haven’t forgotten what the last 8 years were like

Simone_De_Beauvoir (39052

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Response moderated

How do you know no one read it?

Basically you’re upset with the bill and are having trouble articulating why you’re upset.

It’s okay. Have a lattè.

cookieman (41637

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@pikipupiba, you believe that if anyone read it, they would have voted no. This is demonstrably false as a number of congresspeople did read it and voted yes.

You believe that more jobs would be created by giving people $300,000, which shows a remarkable ignorance of how economics works.

Qingu (21185

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Let’s calm down with he caps please.

The_Compassionate_Heretic (14634

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oh, I forgot to say “Someone without a political agenda who read it”

As in, someone who voted yes for the good of the country

pikipupiba (1629

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no, I’m saying that is how much we spent PER JOB SAVED OR CREATED

(which by the way is bull because there is no way to measure the number of jobs saved)

pikipupiba (1629

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@pikipupiba, everyone has a political agenda. Also, many people with political agendas believe they are acting for the good of the country.

There are ways to estimate the number of jobs saved, actually. I’m really failing to see what your problem is with spending that much. The alternative—more widespread joblessness—would deplete our treasury faster over time, since people without incomes don’t pay as much taxes.

Qingu (21185

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@pikipupiba: Everyone in a position to vote for or against it had a political agenda they were pushing at the same time.

EmpressPixie (14760

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If Obama would have paid off the National credit debt. The banks would have received their money. The economy would have been kicked started right away. And, there would have been billions left over.

But this was an out of one pocket into the other scam. The banking institution wants you to be in debt. And Obama played along.

CMaz (26308

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@Qingu: Jinx!

EmpressPixie (14760

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@ChazMaz, “if Obama would have paid off the National credit debt” ... how? By taking more debt? Or printing more money? (Or raising taxes during a recession?)

Again, ignorance of how economics work.

Qingu (21185

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same reason we voted for GWB. some are stupid

mzdesigns (506

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@mzdesigns: Which is…?

cookieman (41637

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read my statement lol
if you need to ask you dont get it :)

mzdesigns (506

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Qingu – 600 billion for the credit debt. 800 billion stimulus package.

“Again, ignorance of how economics work.” I understand it very well.

Dont get greed and ignorance confused.

CMaz (26308

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@mzdesigns: You edited your quip after my response. Now I see your answer is because “some are stupid”.

Okay then.

cookieman (41637

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Response moderated

So, is this more of a rant, than a question? Yes, I educated myself on the stimulus bill. Don’t assume we’re all dummies.

cak (15863

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well driving things of topic is what some of are leaders are good at to avoid the truth(total corruption right before our eyes) hence some are stupid

mzdesigns (506

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why didn’t anyone read the patriot act before voting on it?

ragingloli (51991

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indeed ragingloli,,,reading is a big apparent lacking problem among many more then i thought too.

mzdesigns (506

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@mzdesigns: Correct. Whereas your grammar is just ducky.

cookieman (41637

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lol typical response from you

mzdesigns (506

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btw its called short hand typing

mzdesigns (506

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@mzdesigns: Is it now?

cookieman (41637

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lol

mzdesigns (506

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Oh, I think they read it, and it passed despite the bull crap.

ubersiren (15208

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@ChazMaz, your response didn’t address my point. At all.

Qingu (21185

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there is no right answer qingu, but sometimes doing things like raising taxes are possibly needed why is this such a horrible thing? neither party cares about the working class

mzdesigns (506

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@mzdesigns, why is raising taxes during an extremely bad recession a horrible thing? Because that would worsen the liquidity trap we are currently in.

I’m all for raising taxes during healthy economic times to pay down our national debt. We cannot pay down the debt now. And until we restore a functioning and growing economy, we won’t be able to in the future.

Qingu (21185

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if not now when? just seems to be the same recycled package of rethoric for the past 40years or so. no solutions to growing problems

mzdesigns (506

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clinton had a positive budget. then bush jnr wrecked it. and the economy

ragingloli (51991

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If not now when… in regards to raising taxes? We raised taxes during the 90’s.

And then Bush lowered them. So no, it’s not the same rhetoric for the past 40 years. If you think it is, you haven’t been paying attention.

Qingu (21185

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wow that is scary. I guess that answers my question lol

mzdesigns (506

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indeed , ragingloli

mzdesigns (506

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dont even want to read it…is it titled, “How to Completely Change America From the Best Nation to the Shitter?”

mass_pike4 (2096

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What is your point? That you made an opinion as to what people know or do not. From asumption.

CMaz (26308

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I have learned nothing new from this question – take it for what you will

Simone_De_Beauvoir (39052

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Response moderated

Ok apparently calling someone an idiot is going too far for the mods (ignoring completely that this thread in and of itself is not a question at all, but a commentary, which is against the rules)...

SO, what I said was, considering only ~10% of the stimulus is even distributed and/or spent as of yet, and the economy is ALREADY turning around… I’d say it’s going just fine.

FrankHebusSmith (4319

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[Mod Says]: http://www.fluther.com/faq/

Our trusty moderators may remove anything that is:
* A personal attack

We see “you’re an idiot” as a personal attack.

The_Compassionate_Heretic (14634

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I did, what’s your story?

YARNLADY (46403

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I’M SORRY, LET ME CLARIFY:

Very few people who VOTED on the bill even knew what was in it. Why do we take that crap?

pikipupiba (1629

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@pikipupiba I don’t think we got to vote on that one.
I understand this is disconcerting to you but even if people here did or didn’t read it we didn’t get to vote on it, so if you’re angry at anyone here, it’s ire displaced.

The_Compassionate_Heretic (14634

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@pikipupiba Very people voted on this stimulus package because it was introduced in congress and only the people elected to congress were asked to vote on it. If you did not contact your elected official and tell him/her how you wanted the vote, then you didn’t vote on it, I did.

YARNLADY (46403

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Response moderated

[Mod Says]:
@westy81585 If you’d like to speak via PM I will make myself available.
I will say that personal attacks will not be permitted.

The_Compassionate_Heretic (14634

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lol….wow dude….wow

FrankHebusSmith (4319

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“By the way, if you believe the number of jobs that they say it saved or created, then we would have been better off just handing every single person whose job was saved or created by that bill $300,000.”

There is this little thing called the “Multiplier”. For starters, people getting jobs from spending will pay taxes on those wages. That makes it less expensive. 800 billion becomes 600 billion. These aren’t great jobs, 95 percent of what these folks will make will be spent. More taxes there. Do you get where I am going?

jrpowell (40562

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You are all missing the point. Some are close.

Giving away money just gets spent. The debt still intact.
I will round off numbers, so do not stress.
600 billion credit Debt – 800 billion stimulus package.

What the president has done. and, was allowed to do by the direction and approval of the world bank. Was the old shell game.
Banks lend out money to make debt. Debt is control. Simple.

The world bank the FED gave (lent) the US Government 800 billion to “stimulate” the economy. Some of that money went to “good causes”. Nickel and dime. That is all it was and is.
Your 5 year old really likes that $1 toy. It all changes when they grow up. Then they want $200 sneakers.
People, ya need to grow up.

Most of the money will go and has been going right back to the bank. Directly, and we the tax payers have to pay interest on it. From the left pocket to the right. The few dollars that are being used for “good”? Is the price of doing business. Nothing more.

The national credit Card Debt should have been paid off. All the rules and guidelines are there to avoid it just being free money. I do not want to get into it so to keep this short.
I will say this, if you take the deal, no credit cards for 5 years except for secured credit.
Some will take the deal some wont or don’t need to. More money freed up for other “good” things. The bank will still have plenty of credit debt to hang onto.

We already are giving the banks money because they have “over extended” themselves.
The problem is the banks got bailed out and got to keep the power, the DEBT.

Want to give Citi Bank 64 billion dollars. Pay off 64 billion in Credit Card Debt. City Bank gets their money. The consumer now has money freed up. And, they cant get into Credit Debt for the next 5 years. Also, will prevent our Government from getting involved with business (the Banking Institution). Government and the Bank are becoming more intertwined.
Hopefully in 5 years we figure it out to avoid it from happening again.
The consumer, now has, let’s say, 500 dollars a month freed up. Because they do not have those Credit Card bills. They could save it. The banks wins again.
They can and will spend it. Cash transactions. That is immediately going into the economy.
They are shopping, going out to dinner buying products from you failing business that they could not have before. You business starts to pick up. Your stocks go up, more products being sold. The price of things just might go down. Plus, with more business comes more JOBS. This process would happen VERY fast.
It is win win all around.

Except for the banking institution that operates on the DEBT of others.
THAT is why the money is being spent the way it is.
Even though paying off the national credit card debt will not remove all debt, it seems it is not enough business to satisfy their (The banking Instutions) greed. Plain and simple.

Greed and power is the name of the game. The World Bank wants total control of the worlds finances and with that comes control of the people.
We the people have been hustled, we got thrown a $1 toy and walked away happy as Big Daddy east steak and lives it up.

This is not a DEPRESSION but a SUPPRESSION. Get use to it.

CMaz (26308

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Not one read it. They pushed it thru too fast.

DREW_R (738

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Will someone PLEASE tell me how the stimulus will work! Give me some numbers! Send me a bloody link! All I’ve seen is people rant on about how it WILL work.
Puh-leeeeeezzzz! Pretty please with a cherry on top!

w2pow2 (490

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What, am I chopped liver?

YARNLADY (46403

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