I know the obvious tactics of ignorance or conceit. Things like talking louder makes it true, repeating the same line over and over is evidence,or if no one challenges his passive-aggressive strikes he claims victory, if only in his mind

I agree. I’ve known people who are so completely ignorant about so many things and at the same time completely unaware that they are ignorant. I think that the less one knows about something, the easier it is to reach a conclusion about it. I believe tht there are a great many people in the world who also beilieve volume adds credibility, or at least an intimidation factor. Also, sheer mindless repetition seems to be a tactic, as if by boring you to death they can win an argument.

I agree wholeheartedly. I think that to compensate for their lack of persuasion skills they speak louder to force you to listen.

I work with one of these people. When he’s talking loudly, 99% of the time it’s something asinine coming out of his mouth. He’s like a little child; if you don’t pay attention the first time, he repeats it louder and louder until you finally react. ugh

You reminded me of a great quote

Theodore Roosevelt -

“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far”

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/quotes.htm

I agree and I bet there is some psychology to it for sure. Maybe by speaking louder they some how assume they will be engulfing others in it as well.

I find that the loud and usually fast talkers are more insecure in their thoughts as opposed to ignorance or conceit and that they simply don’t take the time to think through what they want to say. Slow measured speaking as you point out is a sign that person is taken time a care to formulate carefully thought through ideas. I prefer those kind of discussions over loud empty hand waving monologues so often disguised as conversation.

I think the loud ones just stand out more. Like the Mark Twain saying “Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt”.

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him.
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child. Teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep. Wake him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is a leader. Follow him.

Omar Khayam

Which are you?

@BluRhino A sleeper who does not wish to be awakened, lest I be forced to become a leader.

I think these two traits can go together, but do not necessarily do so.

@BluRhino Never heard that before, I love it! :)

I tend to think if you’re having a discussion and the person is attempting to make his point known by speaking louder and over top of the other person, then, yes, that’s usually the case. However, simply being a loud speaker doesn’t indicate that to me. My sister-in-law speaks very loudly, but she is very kind and a very smart, well-rounded individual.

Correlation does not imply causation.

ignorant and loud/obnoxious seem to go hand-in-hand

the religious freak-azoids (and yes that’s the word I want to use because of their ignorance and narrow mindedness and general annoying tactics) in the subway are certainly the loudest

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I don’t know much about subways, but the freak-azoids (love that term!) in the shopping malls really push my buttons. The mall owners won’t eject them either.

@BluRhino , In your classification I would be a child

Yes. Because they are used to not being listened to.

@LostInParadise ; Its ok – its fixable..(and I would bet you “know” more than you think- knowing is different than thinking)... I am a sleeper struggling to wake up..I think.???

Not necessarily. There are many people out there who are loud and repetitive in their views, but sometimes it is needed to make a point that people don’t seem to understand. Take Christopher Hitchens for example. The way he talks over people and pushes his point of view may be seen as rude and obnoxious, but he is an educated, intelligent individual who is far from ignorant and close minded.

@BluRhino – so how do we know we’re not all fools? Uh-oh . . .

No, they are just ignorant.

It certainly seems that way. But maybe it’s the case that with a great enough degree of ignorance, any volume is too loud.

…yes… ”The good and the wise lead quiet lives” Euripedes

I’ve lost count how many times I’ve used that quote…

@BluRhino so much lurve for that! x

I have a family member who is like that. She once bragged to me that she has never ‘lost’ and argument. What she fails to realize is that people won’t bother arguing with her because she just yells and is completely ignorant of the issues.

@BluRhino I would be a Leader.

I do get excited when I am enjoying a stimulating discussion and I tend to get too loud but not rude.

Ignorant people attempt to bully people into conceding whatever point they are attempting to make.
When you look into their eyes you just see the back of their heads. Then you realize that discussing things with them will be a fruitless exercise.

No necessarily. But very often they are faster (in their responses) and louder. They think less before they speak.

The paradox of being a true leader is he does not desire to be such; he will tell you not to follow, but find your own path….