Well that explains why the group of anti-theists are gathering together on campus today. Wonder which church or other club they’re going to harass.

I think we got better shit to do than protest against prayer. I personally have never had any problem with people saying they would pray for me. In fact it actually makes me feel kind of nice. I may not believe in God or prayer, but it’s the intent that I appreciate.

What I don’t like is when someone says they will pray for me, when in fact all they want to do is spite me for not believing in God.

If there are atheists who gather to bother the theists on their praying thing, then I feel ashamed.

Many Christians protest it too.

Since we don’t know if this is, in fact, happening, it seems foolish to get up in arms for or against it.

Amusing, looking up on National Day of Prayer and found that today is also the National Day of Reason which was created in response to the perceived unconstitutionality of National Day of Prayer.

Gotta love humans.

Haha wow. Fuck do we ever suck lol.

@Symbeline What I don’t like is when someone says they will pray for me, when in fact all they want to do is spite me for not believing in God.
Have you ever thought that is was just the way you perceived it, not that they really had any ill intent telling you that? Maybe some had a genuine desire for your well-being.

@janbb Since we don’t know if this is, in fact, happening, it seems foolish to get up in arms for or against it.
Who is getting up in arms? It was just a curiosity seeing how when someone feels something happening in this nation they don’t like, they protest or sue behind it.

@Hypocrisy_Central Some times yes. But there are some people where you really don’t have to wonder if they genuinely mean it, or are just wanting to be mean. I’ve been on both ends, and can tell the difference, even on the internet.

I cannot believe you’ll find many US atheists brave enough to gather in groups and proclaim their atheism. That seems a dangerous thing to do, if you ask me.

NO I didn’t. It’s sad but I’m not shocked, the Bible said it would get worse so buckle up.

@whitenoise Come to California. The UC campuses have plenty. Davis especially with their Agnostic and Atheist Association (or something like that). They’re anti-theists out the cahoots and openly mock the religious clubs esp. Christianity on club recruitment days. As an atheist, I wince a bit every time I see them.

@KNOWITALL There is no link or nothing factual in the question so we don’t know if it is actually happening at all.

Has anyone heard of American Christian fundamantalists stealing babies from atheistts and heathens, tin order to save save their souls?

This kind of nonsense questions leads to people believing it to be true. Classic propaganda.

The fact that there is a state-sanctioned “National Day of Prayer” should disgust any honest Christian as much as it does any atheist.

From the website: ‘Through their tireless efforts, a covering of intercession blankets our country – a “prayer shield” that is vital at this critical juncture in our nation’s history.’

On National Prayer Day not just any old prayer will do you have to pray for the good old USA.

@DARTH Some don’t like MLK Day either, doesn’t make it ‘right’. Indigenous tribes pray, it’s not a negative thing.

To anyone who was praying for rain,

Unfortunately, a significant shipment was incorrectly delivered to our area today – no return address provided.
Please contact the proper authorities and submit your request using the correct GPS coordinates.

Thank you,
Western NY

It’s state-sanctioned prayer. It should not have a place in our government. If a national religious group or coalition would like to make one themselves and pray for anything they’d like, they are certainly welcome to it, and would hear no protest from the vast majority of atheists or secular groups. But that is not what this is. This is the government, saying that we should pray. So yes, I take issue. And following @Judi, thinking that it’s just atheists who protest is wrong.

“The President shall issue each year a proclamation designating the first Thursday in May as a National Day of Prayer on which the people of the United States may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals.”

No mention of those with no gods. No mention of those with many gods. No mention of those that do not hold of a ‘god’ as a single entity, or one who does not hold with entreaties. And it allows religious peoples all a wonderful day for them to be explicitly endorsed by the government. That fact that other people than christians can pray does not somehow make it fine.

@janbb There is no link or nothing factual in the question so we don’t know if it is actually happening at all.
Maybe focusing on the question and not trying to read into the question would add more clarity. I said “Has anyone heard” that qualifies it as a probe so see if any seen, heard, or know if such a thing is or has happened, not that I know for sure and stating it as fact. We up to speed now?

@KNOWITALL

Render unto Caesar what is God’s. Render onto God what is Caesar’s?

@Darth_Algar The fact that there is a state-sanctioned “National Day of Prayer” should disgust any honest Christian as much as it does any atheist.
It is disgusting that as a nation we have to denote one official day to do what should be done daily if not hourly.

Today, May 1, is also Mother Goose Day and Save The Rhino Day.

I will observe all three equally and give them the attention they deserve.

@BHAC It’s not mandatory! Kids are raped every day, & go hungry! Petty crap takes too much energy.

@KNOWITALL: “Kids are raped every day, & go hungry!”

…so ignore the constitution and unnecessarily alienate a bunch of citizens!

Really? Did you just say that nobody should care about this because kids are raped every day?

Goddamn, the non sequiturs are painful.

@Hominid Prayer isn’t harming anyone. Pick your battles. I personally think it’s petty.

@KNOWITALL

It might not be harming anyone, but it’s still a flagrant violation of separation of church and state.

You, who pray, are declaring it doesn’t harm anyone. Color me unconvinced. Prayer, in an abstract, does not. Breaching the constitution and alienating citizens does. As I mentioned, national religious groups are totally free to do this, and I wish them well. That is not what this is.

And why are you on this site while people die? Why are you wasting time arguing this while people are raped and murdered?

Why bother? Just treat it the way you would Mother Goose Day and Save the Rhino.Day. The NDOP day carries no more significance than either of those two holidays. If anyone brings it up, make sure they give the Rhino and Mother Goose equal time.

Update:
It has stopped raining here so apparently the misdelivery and incorrect GPS coordinates message was received.
Thank you.

You may now go back to praying about the Rhinos and Mother Goose.

I pray that you stop mocking my Mother Goose Day @LuckyGuy.

@Darth I don’t participate in Fathers Day or St Pats Day either but it’s not important to me to ruin someone elses fun.

@KNOWITALL: ”@Hominid Prayer isn’t harming anyone. Pick your battles. I personally think it’s petty.”

Nobody is claiming that prayer is harming anyone. I don’t particularly give a sh*t. But don’t pretend that violating church/state separation isn’t going to raise any concern. And saying that “kids get raped every day” or “people fall off ladders every day” doesn’t mean that people can’t keep an eye on constitutional issues while fighting kid rape and ladder accidents at the same time.

@BHAC If you revoke this I guarantee you MLK will be gone afterwards. We’re either together or not.

If we revoke the state-sanctioned prayer day, you swear the celebration of a civil rights hero will be nixed? The fact that you’re making such a threat is rather revealing in itself, but I would also love to know how you think that would occur. Where in the constitution does it say “congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of civil rights”?

Have you ever been in a waiting room (doctor, dentist, garage, etc) where there was a TV in the corner blaring away while everyone else tries to read or talk? Of course you have. If you are like me, you have equipment to secretly turn it off. (Don’t ask.) Invariably when you turn it off someone will get excited and wonder what happened to the TV and will ask the receptionist to turn it back on. Nothing is accomplished.
But, if you take a different approach and turn the volume down slowly you can get it so low everyone can read in peace and it stays low. Conversation volume goes down too. It gets so quiet you can even take a nap.

Rather than fight NDOP (pronounced N-Dope, by the way) by trying to turn it off, you will get much further by pointing out the other holidays it ranks with. It is nonsense and carries no more weight than the inevitable Atheist day that will surely be proposed. If one is accepted then the other must be, too.

Just for the record, I agree with the arguments that this is a violation of separation of church and state. But, I prefer to fight it by simply turning down the volume and trivializing it.

@KNOWITALL

Neither St. Patrick’s Day, nor Father’s Day nor Martin Luther King Jr Day are in violation of the Separation Clause of the Constitution.

@hominid …so ignore the constitution and unnecessarily alienate a bunch of citizens!
Well….the Declaration of Independence says:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Ouch, I did not hear Buddha, Confucius, Zen, Baal, Zeus, or any of those guys mentioned.

Furthermore:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Curious….still no mention of Buddha, Confucius, Zen, Baal, Zeus, or any of those guys….

While we are at it, the Bill of Rights state:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Taking it as written the government may it create any or crate laws specifically for any particular religion, but it did not say the government was forbidden from using any religious tenet in deciding law. There is some ignoring of the Constitution alright, but you may be surprised by whom.

@Hypocrisy_Central

You also don’t see Jehovah or Yahweh mentioned. Also the Declaration of Independence is irrelevant to the discussion as it is not a document of laws, and is not a document our nation is governed by.

You also don’t see Jehovah or Yahweh mentioned.
Yeah…..they are, but I don’t have the time to explain it all and tie it all together right now.

Also the Declaration of Independence is irrelevant to the discussion as it is not a document of laws, and is not a document our nation is governed by.
Who would have figured? In the minds of many it seem to go together like peas and carrots.

However, with as much resistance as you are putting up to the idea, I was curious that many other like-minded people would take it public with picket signs and other rights or privileges the Constitution grants them.

“In the minds of many it seem to go together like peas and carrots.” Irrelevant. It is not a document of law. Your desire to have it be so doesn’t matter, and it’s certainly less relevant than the Treaty of Tripoli, explicitly made the law of the land by it’s ratification in 1796, which starts with “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”

@Hypocrisy_Central

No, please do explain it. I’d love to see what mental gymnastics you go through in order to squeeze Jehovah/Yahweh into those statements.

So what if they “go together like peas and carrots” in your mind or anyone else’s. The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document. It establishes no laws and grants no rights. It’s little more than a finely worded “fuck you” to King George III.

It’s little more than a finely worded “fuck you” to King George III.

Nice lol.

It’s a good thing we’re still governed by the Articles of Confederation, seeing as it was signed before the Constitution and says some things. That’s how these things work, right?

@Darth_Algar No, please do explain it. I’d love to see what mental gymnastics you go through in order to squeeze Jehovah/Yahweh into those statements.
So…..what you really want is not to learn anything but to have facts of which you can debate on how Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, etc. has been truncated in “God”? Would be rather pointless to go through that act of vanity because my, what did you call it mental gymnastics has nothing to do with anything you are about.

@Hypocrisy_Central

No, I just wanted you to confirm your ignorant assumption that by “God” they necessarily meant your god.

@Darth_Algar No, I just wanted you to confirm your ignorant assumption that by “God” they necessarily meant your god.
It is not an ignorant assumption that is why II don’t need to confirm it to you, to think I needed to would be ignorant….

@Hypocrisy_Central

It is. Again, you’re assuming that the writers were referring to your god, completely disregarding the fact that many people from varying faiths and creeds will often use “God” to address whatever deity they pray to. The Founding Fathers were largely Deists who believed in some creative force, which they called “God”, behind the Universe, but did not necessarily believe in the Judeo-Christian god.

oNce again @LuckyGuy said it best.

@KNOWITALL Aw shucks. (blushing)

And May Mother Goose bless All the Rhinos of the world.

@KNOWITALL

I guess the mods might as well close the thread then. No reason to even discuss on an internet forum.

@Darth_Algar There seems to be a lot of that about lately.

The world is messed up enough without evangelicals on either side getting all worked up over what amounts to a non-issue.

You are all now free to explain how this attitude will send me to hell and have me living in a police state.

@Blondesjon

It’s not a non-issue, but neither is anyone really getting all worked up over it.

@Darth_Algar . . . Fair enough, but it’s waaay down on my list of shit that needs fixing in this world.

@Darth_Algar The Founding Fathers were largely Deists who believed in some creative force, which they called “God”, behind the Universe, but did not necessarily believe in the Judeo-Christian god.
I guess in true Fluther style I should ask you to site the smoking gun to that statement, but it is irrelevant to me. You can believe they were intending any god you like even erect an idol made by man’s hands in the Great Mall of it. I will stick to what I believe they meant by the reason this land was even colonized before stealing it from the Native Americans overtook it.

@Blondesjon Perhaps, but you seem to feel rather strongly about whether or not other people should discuss it.

@dappled_leaves . . . Not at all, discuss away. I just feel that all of that energy and emotion could be better spent on more tangible problems.

@Blondesjon – It takes exactly as much energy and emotion to express an opinion here opposing state-sanctioned prayer as it does to come here and express that the issue of state-sanctioned prayer is not worth the energy and emotion.

I’m going to ask a related question….

@hominid . . . I thought it would make a nice lead in to giving some examples of how that emotion and energy could be better, and more pleasantly, spent.

Off the top of my head:

Read a book.
Write a poem.
Help someone less fortunate than yourself.
Think about the things in your life that are positive.
Plant a garden.
Sing in the shower.
Think about things that are positive about others.
Watch a sunrise/sunset.
Teach someone to read.

And about a thousand other things that don’t require anger, name calling, and worrying about what somebody else is doing.

^ That’s fantastic. You’d be surprised how often people are able to do all of those amazing things and still find the energy to make sure the country (and their tax dollars) are doing the right thing. Anyway, I didn’t want to derail, so this

Inbetween dicking around on Facebook and playing turns in online chess it really doesn’t take a whole lot of energy or emotion for me post here.

Following this exchange I think I lost something, this was said: I thought it would make a nice lead in to giving some examples of how that emotion and energy could be better, and more pleasantly, spent. How does that tie in with I just feel that all of that energy and emotion could be better spent on more tangible problems. I just feel that all of that energy and emotion could be better spent on more tangible problems. How are

• Read a book
• Write a poem.
• Help someone less fortunate than yourself.
• Think about the things in your life that are positive.
• Plant a garden.
• Sing in the shower.
• Think about things that are positive about others.
• Watch a sunrise/sunset.
• Teach someone to read etc.

tangible problems ….seems like a whole bowl of insignificant fluff to me; OK maybe helping someone to read, of less fortunate can be removed, but the rest stays in my book.

Maybe it is even insignificant to know if any ungodly person gets uppity over people praying corporately, from the reaction here, if it has not happened, I cannot fathom why?

@Hypocrisy_Central . . . You left out And about a thousand other things that don’t require anger, name calling, and worrying about what somebody else is doing.

To me that is the most tangible.

@Blondesjon I’m not ok with the idea that certain topics must not be discussed in case someone calls someone else a name. That’s emotional blackmail. Each of us is responsible for keeping a civil tongue, and if we fail to do so, we’ll be modded. Why then should any idea be off the table for a discussion?

Again, I never said it you shouldn’t discuss things.

Ok, maybe it is just the gin speaking but seriously WTFCs?

Celebrate it if you want, leave the rest alone and the rest, leave those who want to celebrate it alone too.