I’m sure these changes to a self-congratulatory ceremony where rich people celebrate other rich people is going to kill creativity.~

Come on man. Are you serious? Nobody gives a shit about the Oscars, and now you’re going to come here and tell me that it has some connection to creativity?

”...Will this stop the whining?”. No, because people like @Demosthenes will continue to complain about inclusion and treating people equally.

I don’t agree that “nobody gives a shit about the Oscars”. I think Hollywood cares and it could influence what movies are made.

Calm your tits, @zenvelo. I often ask questions that include opinions I’ve seen on the internet (“stifling creativity” was something I read in one article). It does not necessarily reflect my own opinion. Additionally, when I said “stop the whining”, I mean the whining on both sides. The “so white” whining and the “forced diversity” whining.

Also, if nobody gives a shit about the Oscars, how come its “whiteness” was such a concern? If it’s just a stupid award show for rich people to circle jerk, who cares how white it is?

@Demosthenes: “I don’t agree that “nobody gives a shit about the Oscars”. I think Hollywood cares and it could influence what movies are made.”

It’s theater. It means absolutely nothing. It’s a glimpse into a private club of decadence, and it has never been even closely related to creativity or art. The fact that they exist is generally considered to be a holdover from a different generation.

But the fact that you feel that this glamorous club, which has always been full of arbitrary rules and preferences and politics, is making some changes to be more inclusive bothers you is quite an interesting topic. And to “both sides” something as basic as inclusivity is even more interesting. Let’s explore those things!

I mentioned in another thread how conservatives have succeeded at aggressively painting non-racists and non-conservatives as one of “cancel culture” while living and breathing “cancel culture”. The same applies here. The fragility exposed when privilege is even symbolically challenged is amazing. But to turn that around and pretend that those doing the challenging are the “whining” ones is pure political propaganda.

Again, stop making this personal. Did I say it bothered me? I don’t give a shit either way. I did consider some of the complaints about the whiteness of the Oscars to be whining, yes, but the people who are bothered by these requirements are whining too (again if the Oscars are meaningless bullshit why the fuck does it matter if they’re “so white”? I don’t get this “I care and I don’t care at the same time” attitude). I’m asking if you think is going to affect the movie industry and whether you think this is a meaningful move.

Conceptually, it’s a horrible idea.

It has nothing to do with the Oscars – you could make the same argument about the Man Booker Prize, Newbery and Caldecott Awards, or anything else where there is some sort of award given for creative work. Or for that matter, music.

The creator of the piece – be it a screenwriter, director, producer, composer, author, whatever – writes or does his/her thing to capture creative thoughts. Tell a story, make a point.

Forcing a percentage of black/white/asian/eskimo/middle eastern/straight/gay/whatever is pure tokenism. Quotas for the sake of quotas.

And yes, it does take away from the creative autonomy of the artist/musician/producer/director/whatever.

To me, the Oscars already had zero credibility. Now, unbelievably, they have even less artistic meaning.

Despite your use of a misogynistic phrase to comment on my remarks, I will point out that you as the OP got to choose the wording of the question. And you are the one that characterized any comments on either side of this debate as “whining”.

As an industry, the standards are ones that anyone in the industry should applaud as a minimum,not as a guideline. And yes, there is a lot of self congratulatory theater in the whole Oscar process.

But it is still fun to watch, and the fact that most of the criticism came from within the Academy shows that it is appropriate for the Academy to set the standards.

If one looks at the whole standard, one doesn’t have to have a token actor or a representative story, one just has to provide opportunities for a diverse population.

@elbanditoroso I do care about and pay attention to literary awards a lot more than I do the Oscars, so it will be interesting to see if requirements like these spread to other awards and prizes. That said, literary awards are already fairly inclusive and I haven’t heard much complaining about their climate being “too white”.

@zenvelo I agree that increasing opportunities is much better than tokenism. One would hope this can be more than a hollow gesture or “virtue signalling”.

If winning an Oscar didn’t matter, then ads for movies would not mention how many Oscars the movie was nominated for or awarded.

I think it’s a great place to start, personally.

The same way that J.C. reacted to the delay of the Dacia Sandero.

It’s bullshit. Either give everybody a statue or give nobody a statue. Just another fine example of political correctness run amok!

@kritiper: “It’s bullshit. Either give everybody a statue or give nobody a statue. Just another fine example of political correctness run amok!”

I’m sorry. Here is your statue! Feel better?

It does read a bit like a Chinese menu (one from Column A and two from Column B) but I think it is time for more accurate representation standards to be enforced.

I don’t think about the Oscar Awards. I’d rather think about Oscar Micheaux.

@hmmmmmm Thank you for helping to make my point.

More bullsh*t.

@kritiper The standards aren’t for getting the Oscars, they are for the nominations. It’s like need a GPA of 3.4 and SATs of 1400 at minimum to be considered for admission to certain universties.

I think it’s terrible. So basically, if you wanted to make a historical movie set in Europe with only a couple of characters, it automatically can’t be up for an Oscar useless they shoe horn diversity. Which I think is actually offensive to minority actors.

@rockfan You didn’t read the standards. You can still make your homage to Leni Riefenstahl, as long as your studio has some program to develop a diverse workforce of support people (stylists, grips, designers, etc.).

Oh sorry I read the standards a while ago, fortunately they must have changed them since then. Or I got the wrong info from a bad source. Thanks for clarifying

Those are only the requirements for being nominated for best picture.
Aspirations to that are generally reserved for studios looking for a marketing edge, and lesser filmmakers looking to have their harbl stroked. Neither of which will be concerned with real creativity or craft.
Those true filmmakers, that are striving to make good movies, they will not give a shit about getting an Oscar in the first place.

@janbb You mean it WAS…

It’s all a big shuck. An attempt to impart gravity to a process built on whimsy and fluff.

I would be interested in seeing a list of past films which won Best Picture that would no longer qualify.

Yea I agree that the Oscar’s and Hollywood have already been exposed and they don’t actually matter. It’s a club for rich people, basically. It’s the same circle of people and if they really cared they would have sought out new talent instead of giving the same awards to the same people every year. You start to see those patterns as you get older.

I read this morning that 4 best picture winners from the last 15 years might not qualify.
The Artist
Argo
No Country For Old Men
The Departed

These were all clearly one of the best films of the year. Should they be altered to better qualify for the Oscars?
My only suggested change to any of them would be the Ben Affleck role in Argo. This was a true story, and the Affleck character was, in real life, Hispanic.

^^^So a Spanish actor does not qualify?

And all of those films could have supported training and internships for a variety of disadvantaged people.

No Country For Old Men featured a Hispanic actor in a primary role though.

^^^^^Javier Bardem is Spanish, not Latin American. That is why I asked if he counts or not.

Still Hispanic.