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JLeslie's avatar

Do you think the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution is what racist people rely on to continue slavery in America present day?

Asked by JLeslie (65419points) August 7th, 2021
24 responses
“Great Question” (6points)

This has been going around on Facebook:

Here is the truth behind systemic racism

In 1866, one year after the 13th Amendment was ratified (the amendment that ended slavery), Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina began to lease out convicts for labor (peonage). This made the business of arresting Blacks very lucrative, which is why hundreds of White men were hired by these states as police officers. Their primary responsibility was to search out and arrest Blacks who were in violation of Black Codes. Once arrested, these men, women and children would be leased to plantations where they would harvest cotton, tobacco, sugar cane. Or they would be leased to work at coal mines, or railroad companies. The owners of these businesses would pay the state for every prisoner who worked for them; prison labor.

It is believed that after the passing of the 13th Amendment, more than 800,000 Blacks were part of the system of peonage, or re-enslavement through the prison system. Peonage didn’t end until after World War II began, around 1940.

This is how it happened.

The 13th Amendment declared that “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” (Ratified in 1865)

Did you catch that? It says, “neither slavery nor involuntary servitude could occur except as a punishment for a crime”. Lawmakers used this phrase to make petty offenses crimes. When Blacks were found guilty of committing these crimes, they were imprisoned and then leased out to the same businesses that lost slaves after the passing of the 13th Amendment. This system of convict labor is called peonage.

The majority of White Southern farmers and business owners hated the 13th Amendment because it took away slave labor. As a way to appease them, the federal government turned a blind eye when southern states used this clause in the 13th Amendment to establish laws called Black Codes. Here are some examples of Black Codes:

In Louisiana, it was illegal for a Black man to preach to Black congregations without special permission in writing from the president of the police. If caught, he could be arrested and fined. If he could not pay the fines, which were unbelievably high, he would be forced to work for an individual, or go to jail or prison where he would work until his debt was paid off.

If a Black person did not have a job, he or she could be arrested and imprisoned on the charge of vagrancy or loitering.

This next Black Code will make you cringe. In South Carolina, if the parent of a Black child was considered vagrant, the judicial system allowed the police and/or other government agencies to “apprentice” the child to an “employer”. Males could be held until the age of 21, and females could be held until they were 18. Their owner had the legal right to inflict punishment on the child for disobedience, and to recapture them if they ran away.

This (peonage) is an example of systemic racism – Racism established and perpetuated by government systems. Slavery was made legal by the U.S. Government. Segregation, Black Codes, Jim Crow and peonage were all made legal by the government, and upheld by the judicial system. These acts of racism were built into the system, which is where the term “Systemic Racism” is derived.

This is the part of “Black History” that most of us were never told about.

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Answers

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Of course we were never told about it. It would have defeated the purpose of all of the “America is the greatest country in the world” propaganda we were all brought up on. And in my opinion that’s what it is. Propaganda.

Patty_Melt's avatar

It was a loophole. It is no longer used.
So?

By the way, I learned about it long ago.

seawulf575's avatar

First off I don’t believe that anyone is trying to continue slavery today. Not really as slavery. Secondly, the statement concerning slavery or indentured servitude being allowed for convicts was put in place because hard labor might be a punishment for a crime. Convicts were made to work to help earn their keep. The fact that some people in the day tried getting around that doesn’t really surprise me. And it is something I was taught about long ago.

But something else you have to remember, something I have brought up each time something like this is brought up, is that all the “black codes” and Jim crow laws and all the other totally racist things were put into place and fought for by Democrats. Only. Which really is the part that ISN’T taught or pushed. In today’s world there are all sorts of movements to get rid of anything that might be associated with slavery in any way. Until you mention the Democrat party and then there are all sorts of excuses.

SABOTEUR's avatar

I’m reading these responses and I’m just…sad.

@JLeslie took time to research and share and the only thing people got from this was “this no longer occurs”. How convenient it is for these people to casually overlook the more subtle methods established to keep black people oppressed today.

But…you don’t want to see it.

You choose to cling to your long held beliefs that those n_____s think we owe them something.

You choose not to consider the mindset of people who see and experience vestiges of these same practices today.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

Make America great again for who? America has never been great for black people so that obviously doesn’t apply to us.

But then again, maybe y’all know this and don’t really give a ____.

Probably time for me to take another long Fluther vacation. I don’t know how much longer I can tolerate being exposed to such blatant ignorance.

Besides…“Green Acres” is about to come on.

seawulf575's avatar

@SABOTEUR Is someone really trying to reinstitute Slavery? If so, who? You are right…I DON’T see that.
As for claiming people choose to cling to our “long held beliefs that those n______ s think we owe them something”, that is about the most racist thing I have heard in a long, long time. You are basically attaching a belief to a whole race of people and then condemning them for that belief. That is called racism. Sorry, buddy, but that is a fact. I am a white guy and guess what? I’ve never felt anyone owed me anything. To assign your narrow minded, racist views of white people onto me is offensive to say the least. I certainly don’t return the favor.

Maybe instead of taking a vacation from Fluther, you need to do a lot of soul searching to really evaluate your own beliefs to see the racism in them.

SABOTEUR's avatar

@seawulf575 I KNEW IT!

I knew if anyone chose to break out the ol’ racist talking points it would be you.

Please, do me a favor, sir.

Don’t address me anymore.

seawulf575's avatar

Excuse me? Wasn’t it you that was opening up the entire racism discussion? Wasn’t it you that trashed an entire race on your own beliefs?

Sorry if you don’t like hearing your own vitriol exposed. Tell you what, you don’t spew it all over and I won’t call you on it.

kritiper's avatar

No. I think racist people are too ignorant to rely on the 13th Amendment, much less understand the 13th Amendment and the whole Constitution.

kritiper's avatar

@seawulf575 What is the Democratic party and their values were the Republican Party back in Abe Lincoln’s time, and vice-versa for the Republicans. Better to not label any party as (basically) racist in this day and age. Speak of racists in general without trying to be so party specific.

seawulf575's avatar

@kritiper You know, I keep hearing about that…how Dems were Repubs and Repubs were Dems. But you know? To get there you have to ignore a LOT of facts to the contrary. You have to believe that at some point back in the 1970’s that suddenly they both swapped sides. And there is not one whit of evidence to support that. Shoot, even Joe Biden in 1977 was trying to keep schools segregated. And he has made many, many other racist comments since then. So when exactly did he stop being a racist?

And it isn’t even in line with everything else that the left pushes to change because of it’s “racial connotations”. The Democratic Party WAS the Confederate States of America. The Democratic Party fought to keep slavery. Democrats formed the KKK. The Democratic Party passed Jim Crow laws and even the Black Codes @JLeslie mentioned. The Democratic Party even fielded openly racist candidates for POTUS well into the 20th century. Why is this party not a constant reminder of slavery and oppression of blacks everywhere?

raum's avatar

Yes, we learned about this in college. It’s just one example of institutional racism.

I’m glad that people are discussing it more. Though disappointed at some of the reactions.

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KNOWITALL's avatar

Last summer’s riots-protests really empowered a new generation. Anti-police sentiment on top of mobs in suburbia is more to blame than the 13th.
I feel we went backwards but Chauvin is in jail. Hard to say what the future holds for race relations.

SABOTEUR's avatar

Beau of the Fifth Column

https://youtu.be/ZtMtEsrXuMg

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL Chauvin was a piece of crap that deserved to go to jail. But the riots-protests will do decades of harm to race relations. When we start putting every wrong done by one person or a small group of people onto the shoulders of an entire race, we are enforcing and encouraging racism.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@SABOTEUR That is the best link I could imagine possible on this subject. I hope the wulf has the sense to give it a look.

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SABOTEUR's avatar

13th
A Netflix Feature

https://youtu.be/krfcq5pF8u8

Smashley's avatar

I think America has always needed an underclass. I’m not sure if we imported the idea from Europe, with its tribalism, racism and xenophobia, but we certainly refined it. From early conflicts with the merciless Indian savages (The words of the Declaration of Independence, not mine), manifest destiny, the criminalization of migrant workers, to the modern, unfeeling coin operated meat grinder that is the judicial system, it seems like America has always been deeply rooted in notions of class, and class conflict. Simply put, in a society that values conflict and competition as much as ours, we’ve always needed to feel like we’re better than someone. The underclass does work we call degrading, for wages the rest of us would never accept, because they have no choice. But hey, since we’re a meritocracy, that’s their fault, isn’t it?

During slavery, the underclass was morally justified by racism, and later, scientific racism. After slavery, the underclass was still mostly justified by racism, but eligibility was now equal opportunity. Even as Northern intellectual class had come to deplore slavery, they also deplored criminality, alcoholism, and generally feared for the decline of the country. New ideas about morality and the myth of meritocracy, and thus personal responsibility for one’s own situation, came in to replace the shaky notions of immutable racial traits, and became the new justification for the prison-industrial-complex which has sustained our underclass to this day.

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