General Question

Pandora's avatar

Is the Republican party working itself toward fascism and dragging the Country there?

Asked by Pandora (32309points) September 14th, 2023
83 responses
“Great Question” (10points)

I don’t understand why Republican politicians are pushing to ban abortions when the voters don’t want it, unless they are betting on getting full control of women and eventually ridding themselves of women’s rights to vote.

Before anyone says, the Constitution will prevent that, remember this, Fascists don’t follow Democracy. If Trump is in office one more time, we will become a Fascist Nation.

All the decent Republicans are being pushed out of Office and Trump swears when he gets back in office he will go after Democrats. He said he would make them all pay.

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Answers

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Republicans are not working their way there. They are already there.

Republicans have become full-on fascists. All members of the party from the top down are complicit. They have one goal: total domination and subservience for all to white males.

seawulf575's avatar

Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Hmmm…seems like the Democrats are pushing for centralizing authority under one leader (the Democrat party in the Federal government), that want to put stringent governmental controls on ever aspect of our economy, that are violently suppressing political opposition and that constantly push racism.

Republican (and Trump especially) want smaller government, less bureaucratic control, less control by the federal government, that want States to start being more in control of the various aspects of society (abortion being one), that aren’t cheating on elections (see current AZ lawsuits and the current concerted effort to use the courts to interfere in elections) and that push for unity instead of division.

So no, it isn’t Republican politicians working towards Fascism, it is Democrats. And let’s not forget the last time Fascism became a major factor, it was left-wingers that brought it on.

flutherother's avatar

“Trump especially wants smaller government” Yes, he wants it so small it is concentrated in him alone. Exactly what the founding fathers of the nation wanted to guard against. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck and Trump walks and quacks like many a dictator in history.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 Your first paragraph describes trump to a T.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Yes. But don’t worry most other countries are doing the same.

@seawulf575 you are describing totalitarian government not a facist one. Fasism is right wing and totalitarian. Communism is left wing and totalitarian. Do not mistake the two. Also you should be aware that the rhetoric used in your answer is classic fascist propaganda.

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
gorillapaws's avatar

@Lightlyseared “Communism is left wing and totalitarian.”

False. Communism CAN be totalitarian, but it CAN ALSO be Democratic. There’s nothing inherently totalitarian about Communism. Marx certainly would not have approved of North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, USSR or CCP’s spin on his work.

Is the Republican Party drifting towards fascism? Yes. They tried to prevent the peaceful transition of power for the first time in US history and are still celebrated for it.

That said, the Democratic Party is also fascist (but not for the reasons @seawulf575 claims). The DNC has rigged the past 2 primaries, they have Superdelegates and will prevent a fair primary this election as well in order to force voters on the left to have no option but to vote for a senile sexual assailant with a right-wing voting record and who massively expanding the oil drilling in the Arctic with the Willow Project as the world is in the midst of a climate crisis. The DNC isn’t interested in a fair primary and they’d rather have Trump in office than a progressive like Bernie or AOC. The DNC fights tooth-and-nail to prevent rank choice voting which would allow for 3rd parties to compete without “spoiling” the election. That in-and-of-itself should infuriate “Blue-no-matter-who” voters.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna My first paragraph is the definition of Fascism. The next two paragraphs describe why it is Democrats that are pushing Fascism, not Republicans.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother I understand your angst with Trump. But your statement PROVES he isn’t pushing Fascism or even a dictatorship. It is merely a statement that he is an Egotist. As POTUS, Trump tried doing away with meaningless bureaucracy. He tried putting more power in the States’ governments. He tried pushing more rights onto people. Republicans have been doing that since their inception. It has always been the Democrats that have pushed the earmarks of Fascism.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother Also, you misinterpret my statement about left-wingers and Fascism. I said the last time it showed up as a major factor (obviously Germany in the 1930’s), it was the lefties that brought it on. Hitler rose to power as the head of Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (German Workers’ Party) and later changed it to Nationalsozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP), or the Nazi Party. Both iterations of this party were the left wingers of their times. Oh! and let’s not forget another similarity between the German Nazi Party and the American Democrat Party…the control of the media. The DNC and the MSM are so in bed that they can do anything and the major “news” outlets spin it for them or just plain don’t report on it if it is bad. And they have been working with social media to further suppress opposition.

seawulf575's avatar

@Lightlyseared I gave a definition for Fascism. I didn’t describe anything…someone else did. I know the left wants to redefine everything these days to fit their narrative, but a definition is a definition.

As for my answer being classic fascist propaganda….as defined by who? The left? Of course!!! Projectionism is another classic trait of the Democrats. They are the ones that have branded parents and Catholics as potential domestic terrorists. I actually believe it is anyone that claims it is the Republicans that are pushing Fascism as putting forth the classic Fascist propaganda.

JLeslie's avatar

I’ve said it before, watch the CNN Special Report The Deep Pockets of Texas. It’s season 10 episode 9. It looks like you can watch the whole thing here on YouTube. https://youtu.be/7B3PTuADIHQ?si=JWziKsoxGNg2QO2H

Billionaire religious fanatics are trying to turn the country into a theocracy and they are paying millions of dollars to put their political candidates in office and to control the ones already there.

It’s not just Texas.

Secondary to this episode you can look up the Michael Flynn episode. He’s in Florida grooming people to become fanatics.

The Christian Dominionists don’t care how they get into power, they seek a country that has their brand of Christian fanaticism in and controlling our government. The constitution doesn’t matter to them. Democracy doesn’t matter to them. What matters to them is doing right by God by their beliefs and their definition. Keeping one person in power who helps them with this goal is fine with them, damn the constitution. They want to make abortion illegal across the country.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 ALWAYS has to have the last word. I bet you are exhausting to live with.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Seems a bit of an attempt to deflect. It started off as an attempt to slam the Republican Party and now you are trying to make it about Christians. And you are trying to make it actually about wealthy people that support certain candidates. I could point the same thing out about Democrat donors, but why?

You even brought Michael Flynn into it. He isn’t even a politician. Please.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna I don’t let people misrepresent me. Funny how when you chime in and I clock you for the foolishness of the comment, you suddenly turn it personal.

JLeslie's avatar

Deflect. Lol.

The Q is asking why do politicians want to ban abortion when most people don’t want a total ban. “Most people” includes plenty of Christians who don’t want total bans, but too many of them are voting for candidates who will put in the bans.

My answer stands. The religious fanatics with lots of money who are controlling politicians is why abortion bans are happening.

Watch the video.

The Q is asking about abortion.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !

@seawulf575 and your point is; GOP and Fascists are never wrong !

ragingloli's avatar

Does the Catholic Church have a history of systematic child sexual abuse and sheltering the perpetrators?

jca2's avatar

@ragingloli Yes and the Catholic Church admitted it! That’s why a lot of people are leaving the Church – they’re disgusted.

Bill1939's avatar

@seawulf575 wrote, ”...it isn’t Republican politicians working towards Fascism, it is Democrats. And let’s not forget the last time Fascism became a major factor, it was left-wingers that brought it on.”

There are three problems with your conclusion, that no Democrat is a conservative or a centrist, and that liberals/progressives are the same thing as socialists or communists, and that one is either politically right or left. The politically left and right are the end points of a continuum. Most people (including politicians) are closer to the center of this continuum. One can be a liberal conservative or a conservative liberal.

You are correct in stating that politicians (some, not all) are working towards fascism. Oligarchs have been buying state and federal lawmakers to support the interests of capitalism since our nation was born. Corruption in government is not limited to members of one party. The Uber-rich are an equal party corruptor.

It is they who want autocratic governments in America and will support police and military supression to keep them in power once they obtain it. Don’t join those who demonize a political party, recognize that our Constitution’s real enemy is those using their financial power to corrupt our government.

JLeslie's avatar

Michael Flynn video below. Towards the end is about his camp in Florida, but worth watching the whole thing. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it. He was raised by a very religious Catholic mother, I don’t know if Flynn still considers himself Catholic.

https://youtu.be/lhRNDsLbOvQ?si=6sRKRpOoS9Xyqnjr

The problem is not Christianity or Catholicism, the problem is the fanatics.

kritiper's avatar

I’ve said this before here.
Every single Democracy throughout history, without exception, has only lasted about 200 years, at the most, before evolving into something else. I think it is Socialism.
Obama was right. Change is coming to America.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

Beware the fringes

KNOWITALL's avatar

A lot of people do not agree with abortion but recognize some are medically/morally necessary.
And as another wrote above, putting it back to the States is appropriate. I’m very interested in my state’s decision when we vote on it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

How come my answer was censored for being non helpful ,while all I did was post wikipedia definition of fascism, then said it wasn’t a democrat that said that a 10 Year old rape victim couldn’t have an abortion in her home state, and yet propaganda about the left wing is allowed to go on and on?
Oh and I got 7 good answers for my answer that was pulled for being non helpful WHY?

ragingloli's avatar

@jca2 That was a rhetorical question

jca2's avatar

I just hope that the states that vote to really limit women’s rights to an abortion will at the same time, greatly increase their social services budgets and their budgets for Early Intervention and other therapies for children, such as physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy, psych therapy, etc. because there are going to be more babies born that might otherwise have been aborted, such as babies with various genetic syndromes and medical issues like cerebral palsy, and babies who are born addicted due to the mother’s addictions. Add to that, additional funding will be needed in the foster care budget and CPS budget.

A really religious person may say that babies with Down’s Syndrome and cerebral palsy and other such things should be born because we’re all God’s children, and they’re still a blessing, but those babies will still need additional help.

@ragingloli I know. I was adding my thoughts to your sentence.

Caravanfan's avatar

No. Anybody who throws around the term “fascism” describing modern political parties has no conception on what fascism really is. I just went through a Holocaust exhibit in London where the REAL fascists were exhibited.

Many Republicans are assholes, and many Democrats are asshats (my own California governor for instance). But it doesn’t make them fascist. And to compare someone like Trump or Newsom to fascism (i.e. Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo) is disrespectful to the people who suffered under those rules and their descendants.

And the so-called Communists were also fascist—Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, to name a few.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@Caravanfan exactly. Thank you.

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 Trump is an egotist but an egotist who wields enormous influence in the United States. He may not be consciously pushing America towards fascism or towards a dictatorship he may be too wrapped up in himself to even consider that. But the power dynamic between him and his followers is taking the United States in that direction and it would be foolish to ignore that. It is very foolish to think that Trump and the republican movement can’t lead to a dictatorship just because previous dictatorships came from the left, even if that were true, which it isn’t.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump said when he is elected he iss going to throw Biden and other of his “enemies straight to jail” – - no arrest – - no trial.

Just straight to prison.

What do you call that ? ?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/30/trump-interview-jail-political-opponents-glenn-beck

chyna's avatar

^Tyranny

KNOWITALL's avatar

@jca2 Missouri hasn’t voted yet. 8.3 million was added to the budget in 2023 for ‘alternatives to abortion’ alone.

jca2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I call that “delusions of grandeur.”

@KNOWITALL That’s good.

JLeslie's avatar

@Caravanfan I am just curious if you agree that a significant part (not necessarily majority) of the Republican party wants a theocracy? I also don’t throw around the term fascism and I didn’t like comparing Trump to Hitler for the same reason you say. Trump was not rounding up people and shooting them dead or keeping them in camps. Although, I do think Trump encourages violence, antisemitism, and racism. I think he would put in religious laws if it would make him money and give him more power, and I think he would willingly stay in power by force if he could get away with it.

Pandora's avatar

@Caravanfan @JLeslie All fascist start slow. People under their reign usually don’t disagree with things they say while they are not in full power. Once they have the power, it’s too late to change the direction.

JLeslie's avatar

@Pandora I don’t disagree Trump has fascist tendencies, but I don’t think he would have gone as far as Hitler, but who knows how far he would go. I think @Caravanfan is saying that he has more confidence in our country. When January 6th was in full swing my reporter in Kenya was texting me in disbelief what he was seeing. He thought the US was falling apart. I texted him back, “no no, it will be fine.” I really didn’t believe hoodlums climbing the Capitol walls were going to take over the government.

At the same time, during the years of Trump I was pissed off my husband had given up his Mexican passport, because if we needed to leave, I wanted us to have more than a US passport. My dad constantly rambled on about what he had read regarding what countries it was easy to stay on a tourist visa for at least 6 months and what countries you can buy citizenship.

I still to this day think things could really decline in this country to point that it might be good to leave for a long while. Moreover, I grew up being told by family and taught in school that if Hitler and the Nazis can happen in Germany, it can happen anywhere, so I never feel completely safe from homicidal, power hungry, fanatics, nor do I feel safe from about 30% of the population that will likely happily go along with it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t think many Republicans want a theocracy. I mean we all agree murder is bad and it’s against the law in most cases. How we define those ‘certain cases’ is the difference.
Many other issues are the same. We all wabt a balanced budget and lower deficit, working border that screens out true criminals and drugs, people who need abortions getting them, etc…
But having a different opinion on the specifics is not wanting a theocracy by definition.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL My guess is around 30% of the adult population will go along with a lot of policy that will border on, or basically be, a theocracy. For instance, plenty of Republican women might understand that extremely strict abortion laws might impede on women’s healthcare, but when it comes to voting, most of them will vote for the politician who will make it totally illegal to get an abortion rather than vote for a Democrat. I understand they are in a tough spot. They will vote for the politician who will outlaw birth control rather than vote for the Democrat. They will vote for the politician who will support school vouchers for private religious schools. The list goes on. Maybe it is only 10% who actually want those policies, but people go along.

Regarding the budget, the border, the deficit, screening out criminals and screening for drugs, when you say “we all” I am going to assume you mean all Americans, and not just Republicans, because the majority of Democrats want those things too. Pelosi ran on pay as you go for the budget in her district, Bill Clinton had a pay as you go policy while in office, I think maybe Bush senior had started it. After Clinton all hell seemed to break loose. I don’t want to hash out details of each president and the debt, but just saying many Democrats are fiscally conservative.

Caravanfan's avatar

@JLeslie No, I do not think the Republican party is not interested in a theocracy. They (as well as the Democrats) are interested in any issue that will keep them in power and appease their base.

(Sorry for the double post. On bad wifi on a train and it’s acting weird)

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Deflection, yes. You didn’t even quote the question correctly. The question is not about abortion. Abortion was only put in as an example. The question was: Is the Republican Party Working itself toward Fascism and dragging the country with it? You have deflected into Theocracy.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli Does Germany have a history of Fascism?

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother Trump is an egotist. So was Biden, Obama, Hillary, Bush (1 and 2), Clinton and just about every other politician there is. But your claims about Trump are tainted at best,. We have a history of Trump being POTUS. He did a good job, despite efforts from the Democrat party and the media to block him. His efforts were not to solidify power around him. Had they been, we wouldn’t have the corruption in the federal government we have today…corruption that fully supports and works for the good of the DNC. You say it is dangerous to ignore the threat Trump poses, yet you are fully embracing an actual threat that is striving to do exactly what you are saying Trump MAY do

seawulf575's avatar

@Bill1939 You are absolutely correct in your estimation of how people can fall on the political spectrum regardless of party. However what you fail to acknowledge is that the Democrat party votes almost 100% as a bloc. Regardless of how far from center they are, they almost never vote against what the majority of their party wants. And that isn’t just in the Federal Government. Republicans are getting that way too, though there are still those that vote how they feel. So if you are a conservative Democrat and vote in line with radical left wing efforts, what are you really?

As for liberals all being socialists, I have never said such a thing. But Socialism and Communism are completely left wing in their ideological make up. It is impossible to hold right wing ideals and push for Socialism.

The original question lumped “Republicans” into one batch. Funny you didn’t identify that in your effort to separate out liberals and conservatives and centrists. My original answer was addressing the question as it was addressed…as an overall party. And I pointed out how the actions of the current day Democrat party and their supporters are more in line with the definition of Fascism than the Republican Party.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie What do I call that? Trump Derangement Syndrome. Once again, you make WILD claims that have no basis in fact. And you got an uber-left outlet as your source. What. A. Surprise.

Here is a link that has the applicable portion of the phone interview on it.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/you-have-no-choice-trump-tells-glenn-beck-he-will-absolutely-lock-people-up-if-returned-to-white-house/

At no time does he even suggest throwing people into jail without due process. But he is strongly suggesting that he not hold back as he did before…that he actually push to bring charges against people. And if you think that is a bad thing, then maybe you need to look around and see what the Dems are doing. I find it completely telling that the Dems tried to impeach Trump for using the power of his office to interfere with a political opponent during a phone call with Ukraine. Their evidence was a “whistleblower” that was kept secret and whose statement was rife with lies and inaccuracies. Now we have the DOJ, that works for Joe Biden, trying to indict his leading political opponent. They are also coordinating with local DAs to further interfere in the 2024 election. And you are okay with that.

JLeslie's avatar

@Caravanfan I used to think that.

@seawulf575 I answered. I said I don’t think the Republicans are in a state of fascism, but the party certainly has some characteristics of it, and I do think a lot of Republicans will go along with a fascist leader, partly because of religion, but so far the country has held up against it.

Trump definitely had characteristics of facism enough for me to think I might need to leave the country. Trump freely admits he would do anything to stay in power, and doesn’t care about the constitution.

mazingerz88's avatar

The Britannica definition…

Fascism : a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.

Which American Party today is supporting a wannabe dictator? If not a dictator a pathetic corrupt sociopath-douchebag?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Fair point well made.

When it comes to voting of course I’d vote Republican over Democrat in most cases. But NOT because I love fascism and want a theocracy. It’s simply because the Democrat party is as extreme as Republicans!! Moderates are our only hope-for both parties.

While we may all agree on those issues we listed, the parties force us to choose between two extremes.

So in my humble opinion, American voters are victims of a broken system with no true path to correct that. Is that our fault, perhaps, but I hear from people in BOTH parties that are dissatisfied with politicians, current and candidates.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 that would be the Democrats. I’ve already laid out why. When Trump was in office, he was pushing for Constitutional behavior and was trying to shrink the power of the Feds, put more power back into the States, pushed (or tried to push) the Congress to enact some sort of immigration reform (which the Dems fought tooth and nail), worked to help the middle class, tried taking away onerous government regulations (again, which the Dems fought tooth and nail) and the list goes on. These are not the actions of someone trying to be a dictator. Meanwhile the Democrats are bloating the size of government, putting regulations over every aspect of our lives, are pushing their policies even if illegal and then forcing people to sue them to stop them. They try to put rules in place (not laws but rather regulations) to disarm the public. These ARE the actions of a group looking to install a dictatorial regime.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^America does not need a douchebag doing those ( subject to debate ) things that you personally perceive as right correcting the wrongs in goverment. Why is it so hard to understand? Trump is an asshole. America does NOT need an asshole to lead it.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 What doesn’t America not need….someone trying to shrink the government and all it’s associated over reach and regulation? So what you are saying is that you fully support A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Guess that puts you in the Fascist camp. And wait! you are also a vocal lefty Democrat. Huh. Imagine that.

cheebdragon's avatar

Yeah @seawulf575 America doesn’t need anyone to correct the wrongs in government! ~

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I agree that it happens with Democrats too; they will vote for the Democrat even if some of the policies are more “extreme” than they would like.

So far, I don’t think the Democrats (the voters) have gone along with very extreme policy, but I would guess Republicans might see it differently. If we stay on the topic of abortion, Democrats for the most part just wanted to keep the protections given by Roe, which contrary to the belief of many Republicans, Roe did have restrictions on abortion. Getting rid of Roe leaves it wide open for states to do whatever they want, which could be stricter or looser laws. I’m thinking high level, like president, speaker, mayors of big cities or counties, majority whip, and governors.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah,∆∆∆ Like refusing to give a 10 year old rape victim an abortion in her home state.

JLeslie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Ok, I am not sure if you are talking to me, but I see no need to point that out to @KNOWITALL, if that is what you are indirectly doing. She obviously has empathy for extreme cases and for the health of the pregnant woman.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I think it’s sickening. My state votes on it next year and I hope and pray we make a better choice.

gorillapaws's avatar

@Caravanfan “No. Anybody who throws around the term “fascism” describing modern political parties has no conception on what fascism really is.”

Trump used to keep a collection of Hitler’s speeches on his nightstand. While I don’t think he has hatred for any faith or race, I think he is fully capable of genocide on the scale of Hitler if it served his political ambitions, not out of personal hatred for any group but out of self-interest via “othering” one group to be scapegoated (I believe he’s a psychopath). And I think the DNC is perfectly willing to allow a guy like that into power until it becomes too late for them as they happily wine-cave it up.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@gorillapaws Trump does not appear to be a psychopath, he is clearly a narcissist. He is no leader and what he has done to the republican party is prop it up without real lasting support. The heyday is over and it’s going to come crashing down. To call what has become the new republican party fascism is asinine. This is the left wing’s own special fear-mongering that people on the left are just as vulnerable to as people on the right. The Republican party is not well organized enough to be fascist, not even close. Nor are many shared values the right wing hold compatible with fascism such as limited gov’t. The erosion of the middle class is going to gut the Republican party. What comes after is where people need to be careful because that’s a formula that really is out of history’s playbook. What @Caravanfan mentioned above is fundamentally true, be it Hitler or Pol Pot. Totalitarian, fascist dictatorships can come from any axis on the political spectrum provided the extreme ideology exists in such a way that can dominate the political landscape and moderate stances are not allowed. In the French revolution it was the moderates that fed the guillotine. We are nowhere near that but to point to the right without looking at what is going on with the left is a huge mistake and I’m not talking about the democratic party. I’m talking about the left wing ideology that is building just like it is on the right wing and most people, including here are clueless.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Is it still just trump the narcissist if rioters got to Pence and killed him? For hours he did nothing and said nothing.

JLeslie's avatar

@Blackwater_Park I don’t see the left wing “building” like the right. For example: the candidates farthest to the left usually need to moderate to have a chance at winning the primary for president, it’s just the opposite with the Republicans.

Mitt Romney shifted right when running for president. McCain did the same. Bernie had to let go of Medicare For All and change to starting with moving the age down to 60 as a start. Tons of Democrats didn’t agree with student loan forgiveness, especially not the $50k Elizabeth Warren was trying to sell.

People like AOC got attention, because the Republicans obsessed about her, but my impression is most Democrats in congress want to hear her opinion, but they are not where she is at on so many things.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@JLeslie I’m not talking about left-wing political candidates or the democratic party.

JLeslie's avatar

@Blackwater_Park You wrote: We are nowhere near that but to point to the right without looking at what is going on with the left is a huge mistake and I’m not talking about the democratic party. I’m talking about the left wing ideology that is building just like it is on the right wing and most people, including here are clueless.

I’m saying where exactly do you see the left wing building like the right? The far left doesn’t have a lot of power and gets push back from my view. The far right gets rewarded on the national level and plenty of local and state level.

cheebdragon's avatar

How are the far right being rewarded?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie “The far left doesn’t have a lot of power and gets push back from my view.” ??? Okay, let’s review. The far left has pushed for the Green New Deal. That is being forced down our throats. The far left has pushed for Trans rights and have pushed complete lunacy down our throats. The far left has pushed to segregate children from their parents when it comes to decision making for stuff like gender reassignment…and once again, that is being forced down our throats.

Yes, they get push back. They get push back from common sense folks that see the lunacy that the far left is pushing and they are speaking out about it. Thank God they are getting push back!!!

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 So, more or less you are agreeing with me. Got it.

Is a Republican who runs in the primary on abortion at-will through 20 weeks going to win? Even 15 weeks? A Republican who wants to raise taxes on the rich going to win? A Republican who will lower estate tax exemption to $5million going to win? A Republican who says out loud he supports schools and business requiring masks or closing for 3–10 days to cut transmission of illness going to win? By the way school closures have always been done as temporary measures for that, but God forbid a politician say it out loud. A Republican who states they accept the theory of evolution going to win? A Republican against school vouchers going to religious schools going to win?

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@JLeslie Far-left extremist groups mostly died down in the late 80s, but there is a bit of a revival going on now that most people have not noticed yet. It would appear the far-right rise has also radicalized a lot of young people on the left. They mostly get a pass because they’re quiet and traditional Democrats think they understand them, but they really don’t.

JLeslie's avatar

@Blackwater_Park I agree some of the more extreme left groups are riled up again, and some Democrats jump on their bandwagons and don’t see how extreme and too often illogical the ideas are, they follow almost blindly and then later seem to back off and get amnesia. I don’t see a lot of the Democratic politicians acting that way though.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
JLeslie's avatar

Dead people? WTH is that? Are you talking about voter fraud? What was there three cases of that across the country and two were easily explained as honest mistakes without malicious intent. Some really low number. Claims of thousands of votes were proven to be complete lies. They might have all been Republicans I don’t know. The few voter fraud cases near me were all Republicans.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie No, I don’t agree with you. The far left has LOTS of power. They have bureaucratic control in many, many places. They are supported by far left Democrats at every turn. They have the power of the Press and Hollywood that tries to normalize any bizarre action the radicals decide to do. And yes, they deserve to be pushed against.

As for all the rest, there are some things you might not be thinking about. If a Republican ran on a platform of allowing abortion at will in the first 15 weeks he might just win. That is popular with many people…except the left. The Dobbs v Jackson case that “overturned” RvW is a perfect example. RvW made abortion a federal issue. It should never have been. And the Dobbs v Jackson case.jackson_women%27s_health_organization%282022%29 actually was in over a Mississippi law that restricted abortion at will to 15 weeks except in cases of threats to the mother’s life or some dreadful abnormality of the baby. Amazingly this was pretty much exactly what RvW said. But the left wasn’t satisfied with RvW either. They had to have Casey v PP pushed through that allowed at will abortions up to the point of birth. The DvJ case also argued that abortion was a State’s right and not one of the Federal government.

The other one you miss is that I don’t believe anyone would have a problem with closing a school from 3–10 days for a medical issue. But be honest…that’s not what happened with Covid-19 and is not what the Dems are trying to push again. They shut down schools for an entire year. They shut down churches. They shut down businesses. They pushed mask mandates. And the science does not support any of that.

Most of what you have listed is garbage. It is a differing view point. And your argument is: Would a Republican that was really a Democrat stand a chance of getting a Republican nomination? Don’t be foolish. I could reverse that on you and ask if a Democrat would stand a chance of winning a primary if they campaigned on shrinking the size and control of the Federal government, if they called for fiscal responsibility, if the pushed for sealing the southern border, if they wanted to stop the Green New Deal nonsense? What do you think? Does that make Democrats close minded because they wouldn’t vote for such a candidate?

JLeslie's avatar

Casey restricted abortion more, it put into place viability, while Roe was trimesters.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie RvW dealt with trimesters, that is true. And what was and wasn’t allowed within the various trimesters. CvPP changed that so that there were no real stops put on abortion. It changed RvW so fundamentally that RvW would be viewed as some radical right effort today.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I don’t agree with your interpretation of Roe or Casey.

Are you ok with 15 weeks? My guess is no.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie You are sort of side-tracking this question. But to answer your question, I’m okay with abortions for things that threaten the physical health of the mother or when there are severe abnormalities with the baby. I’m okay with abortions following rape or incest. I’m even okay with abortions for convenience up to a point. Is the point 15 weeks? I don’t know. I would say 15 weeks is about the maximum.

What I am REALLY in favor of is changing the attitudes our society has pushed concerning abortion and sex in general. Abortion is frequently used as a form of birth control Since there are only about 20 different forms of birth control available, I find this atrocious. Having unprotected sex is ridiculous in this day and age. Besides pregnancy there are STD that account for several billion dollars in treatment every year. But hey, why make people be responsible, right? Let them do whatever they want and then let others make it right for them later.

Let me ask you, are you ok with abortion as a form of birth control? My guess is yes.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Your answer is you are not ok with 15 weeks.

Of course I prefer women to have access to birth control so they don’t get pregnant if they don’t want to get pregnant. What do you think? Abortions are fun? I used birth control since I was 16, I didn’t rely on abortion. I expect other women to do the same.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

For certain ages yes I am ok with abortion used as birth control, for a idiot 13 year old that caved under pressures from her boy friend I have no problem with it.
But the fright wing FEAR mongering saying late term abortions ,that is total bullshit 99% of Doctors will not preform an abortion on a healthy mother and fetus in a late term pregnancy ,we all know that but hey keep the propaganda going.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie again, you are side-tracking this thread.

cheebdragon's avatar

Number of reported abortions, by known number of previous induced abortions;
0–57.7%
1— 24.1%
2— 10.5%
3 or more- 7.8%

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Either you are ok with women having the choice to have an abortion or you are not. You are not, that is quite obvious. If a girl or woman gets pregnant by choosing to have sex, you believe she should not have the right to abort. In your kingdom there will be no abortions except in extreme circumstances, and that type of law endangers the women in extreme circumstances or forces them to carry when the baby has no way of living. There seems to be millions of people like you.

There are already several states where women can’t get abortions, if I remember correctly your state is one of them. A doctor has to go to court to get approval to do an abortion in extreme cases. Scary times.

Edit: Several is an understatement, I think it is probably ¼ of the states, maybe more.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Still side tracking. The question is whether the Republican party is dragging the country towards fascism or not. It is not really about abortion. I’ve entertained our obsession so far and have stated very clearly what my views on abortion are. You have either not read them, not understood them, or are purposely trying to put forth a lie about me just so you can step up onto your soap box and rant. In the end it doesn’t matter. By entertaining your delusions I have helped you side track this thread and to all, I apologize.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Did you even read the OP’s follow-up? lol

seawulf575's avatar

^^yes I did. Abortion seemed to be used as an example and not the focus. Because the follow up went on to address the views against the Republicans in general and Trump in particular. lol

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