General Question

crazyguy's avatar

What can the Arizona and Georgia audits find? Why don't we do a complete audit?

Asked by crazyguy (3194points) May 24th, 2021
63 responses
“Great Question” (1points)

My understanding is that in both the Arizona and Georgia audits, there is no way to tie individual ballots with actual voters. Therefore, there is no way to generate any evidence other than possible patterns that help identify that some ballots were filled in by a single person.

What exactly is wrong with conducting a complete audit? After all, the entire reason for the old-fashioned voting systems employed in the US is that a paper trail should be available.

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JLeslie's avatar

I figure those audits keep money coming in to Trump, Gaetz, Green, and they laugh all the way to the bank. My husband said when he first came to the US his family was watching TV and couldn’t believe there were preachers on TV asking people to send in money, and people sent in a ton of money. Televangelists were very American to them. He said they didn’t have anything like that in Mexico at the time. Mind you his parents are very religious and truly believe and worship God. Trump all along followed the basics of the fire and brimstone brand of preachers. Many Republicans have used that tactic for years.

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
gorillapaws's avatar

I would support all voting machines being open hardware running open-source software with a fully transparent public process that can be audited by all parties involved.

That said, the 2020 election hasn’t shown any evidence to-date of widespread election fraud to the degree being alleged by Trump. In fact, most of the verifiable fraud that was discovered has been by Republicans. All indications are that this is a poly to raise money by Trump.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Yes and he is apparently successful at it. What a pile of hopeless chumps. It’s a replay of the buy a brick for the wall scam. Can you believe that Bannon et al scammed conservative suckers out of 25 million dollars? You just cannot believe the gullible crop of yoyos just BEGGING to be fleeced.

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crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie The question was not why the audits are being conducted; it was what can they possibly find?

@gorillapaws Congratulations! I agree. Counting and recounting the same set of ‘approved’ ballots cannot and will not yield any evidence. However, you have to ask yourself the question why Democrats are so terrified of a full audit.

@sorry And I suggest that you stop reading or responding to my comments. Because after this reply, that is what I will be doing to your posts.

gorillapaws's avatar

@crazyguy ”...why Democrats are so terrified of a full audit.”

If you want to pay for a full audit, I’d have no problem with it as long as there are parties from all sides able to verify the integrity of the process. I suspect it’s a giant waste of time, money and resources, but I’m not terrified of what an honest audit would find.

kritiper's avatar

First of all, find reasonable cause.

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zenvelo's avatar

What they can find is there was no voter fraud or false ballots, and Joe Biden won fair and square.

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JLeslie's avatar

My mistake.

My answer: Nothing.

stanleybmanly's avatar

This idea of Democrats being terrified of audits misstates the very obvious. It is neither terror nor Democrats at issue here. I am neither terrified nor a Democrat, and am here to pronounce those pushing this bullshit brazenly stupid and hopelessly deluded. The fact that they are what now constitutes current Republican trends is just another glaring nail in the coffin of that discipline’s integrity. The desperation of these idiots thrashing about in defiance of basic common sense is an embarrassment to us all. There comes a point when all sympathy for these people must succumb to the exhaustion of any tolerance. It’s time to join both Bannon and Trump in fleecing them without mercy for all they are worth.

seawulf575's avatar

What CAN they find? They can find that everything was A-Okay and above board. OR they can find ways that ballots were counted were incorrect (i.e. Each vote for one candidate counts as less than for another). OR they could find systemic false ballots being counted. OR they could find any number of things that weren’t on the up and up. In the end, what they WILL find is what needs to be strengthened going forward in our voting systems to ensure integrity and confidence in the results. And knowing what’s broken is the first step in getting a repair done.

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seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Sort of like the entire Russia Collusion thing, wasn’t it? Make an accusation without any evidence so that you can then open an investigation to try and find evidence. But in this case, there were actual people that were willing to come forward and testify to irregularities and illegalities they witnessed. A lot more than they had for Russia Collusion!

And besides, think of what you are really saying or suggesting. Tens of millions of Americans feel there was something wrong in many aspects of the 2020 election. You want to ignore their concerns because you don’t want anyone tampering with the system as it is. When that many people feel something is wrong, why is it suddenly wrong to look into it?

crazyguy's avatar

@seawulf575 I believe the pre-approved ballots have been counted by machine and by hand (at least in Georgia), so I do not expect any counting errors. What I am hoping they will find is that different batches of ballots appear to be filled in in an identical fashion; that would lead a reasonable person to suspect some hanky panky.

However, without a full audit (that would include matching up ballots to individual voters), I am not sure any final conclusions can be drawn.

JLeslie's avatar

I agree Democrats are not afraid at all of a recount. Many Democrats were worried, let’s say terrified, that promoting the idea that the election was rigged or full of fraud would hurt the country in significantly. Which it has. Recounting where warranted is fine, we have rules for that.

All you have to do is look at how some Republicans purposely would not start counting mail-in ballots before Election Day and then tried to say any ballot not counted within 24 hours of Election Day should not be counted. Just that right there shows they want to cheat and to spin information to stop the count. Shysters.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Funny how the Dems had none of those concerns (of hurting the country) when they pushed a hoax of a duly elected president conspiring with a foreign government to win his election. They had no worries about the country when they impeached that same president without any actual crimes being cited and with no actual facts being brought up. They didn’t have any concerns about the country when they obstructed anything and everything for political reasons. I’m sorry, I don’t buy the idea that they are altruistic in anything.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I would not say they are always acting altruistically. I hope you don’t mean to say the Republicans always are? I think they all, both sides, try to tell themselves that what they are doing is for the greater good. That’s how they live with themselves I guess if they have any sort of conscience.

You don’t really think Trump believes the vote was stolen do you? He is the thief. The want-to-be election thief. Just like a mob boss he had his minions get blood on their hands.

I do believe our election officials care about an honest and fair election. I think they take their jobs seriously.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . “when they pushed a hoax of a duly elected president conspiring with a foreign government to win his election”
Wasn’t the Mueller Report . . . that Billy Barr put black Marks a Lot on all the passages where Putin’s and Trump’s names were in the a close proximity in the paragraph.

The un-redacted Mueller Report will come out and Trump’s lap dog Billy Barr will be shown for what he did for the mob boss. IMHO

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I think I have commented enough times saying that both sides are pretty rotten. But in this case, we were talking about the Democrats.

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crazyguy's avatar

@zenvelo You are probably correct. However, I see nothing wrong with trying to make certain, do you?

JLeslie's avatar

Waste of money.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Recounts are absolutely meaningless when what is being questioned is the validity of a ballot. Since the ballots have been irrevocable separated from the voter signature, there is no way to determine whose ballot is suspicious. All that the Arizona audit may yield is that there appear to be batches of ballots all filled in by one person.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie waste of money. Probably. But not yours or mine. So adopt a wait-and-see attitude.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie @seawulf575 Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are altruistic. Nor would I expect them to be.

As far as fair elections go, I do believe in the following:

1. Voting should be made as easy as possible without compromising its validity.
2. EVERY voter should be required to prove that s/he is the person registered to vote.
3. If that is too difficult for some voters, perhaps they should get help.

Response moderated (Writing Standards)
stanleybmanly's avatar

A man tells you his bicycle is missing, and suspects that you may be hiding it in your refrigerator. You ask the man what evidence is there for this, and his answer “the bike is missing.” You then tell the man “your brother was here yesterday and opened the refrigerator while both you and I watched.” The man then asks “why are you so terrified that I must look again?” To which you in exasperation reply that the man is impossibly stupid. Your answer is then rejected by “neutral” arbitration as “unhelpful”.

zenvelo's avatar

@crazyguy 3. If that is too difficult for some voters, perhaps they should get help.

Quit trying to have it both ways. Assisting people to vote has recently been outlawed in Georgia and Texas.

I see nothing wrong with trying to make certain Each of the states has made certain. But the Cyber Ninjas in Arizona are “making certain” by sloppy methods and unsecured methods which guarantee their “audit” will be less accurate than the original vote count.

Any “report” coming out of Maricopa County will be as trustworthy as Trump, who lied many times a day for four years.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Why don’t we do an investigation into the rebellion, that tried to subvert democracy? It’s over, Biden won, get a grip on reality.

crazyguy's avatar

@zenvelo Quit trying to have it both ways. Boy, talk about mixing apples (in-person voting) and tangerines (absentee voting).

In-person voting has always required proof of identity and electioneering near a polling place has always been illegal. However, electioneering was still going on in the guise of providing food and water to voters in line. That is now banned.

Absentee ballots can be procured by providing an ID. Before the current law, there was no need for an ID. That is the part the Democrats are objecting to.

crazyguy's avatar

@Nomore_lockout Yes, Biden won. He is the President, isn’t he? Nobody is trying to change the results of that election. However, what exactly is wrong with making certain that there shall be no suspicion of fraud going forward?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

_“Absentee ballots can be procured by providing an ID. Before the current law, there was no need for an ID. That is the part the Democrats are objecting to.
“_

Is that your opinion or you have a source ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@crazyguy would you be this concerned if your hero had won the election?

stanleybmanly's avatar

There isn’t a chance in hell there won’t be accusations of fraud from nut job conspiracy theory losers regardless of any effort to accommodate them. How many recounts are necessary to assure the delusional that they haven’t been cheated?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trump will always think he was cheated regardless of any and all recounts.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Whether he believes it or not, there will always be slow witted chumps ready to accept that the Mexicans will pay for the wall, a swig of bleach will cure covid and kids thrive in cages.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

@crazyguy “However, what exactly is wrong with making certain that there shall be no suspicion of fraud going forward?” If it were a VALID issue, then nothing. But it’s bull shit. Conservatives / Repubs are grand past masters at the art of distraction. What? A rebellion? Police Officer murdered? A gallows set up on the Capitol grounds? Move on nothing to see here! Hey look! The Dems cheated! Voter fraud! God / Guns / Gays!

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . “slow witted chumps” like the ones on the subscription plan to re-elect Trump. you know $50 a month (when they made the first donation they didn’t read the fine print, it was a monthly and forever payment plan)

Ha-Ha ! !

Nomore_lockout's avatar

@Tropical_Willie So you are saying, that Trump is a lazy socialist moocher who should get a job? ; )

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie The link to the guy that voted for Trump in his murdered wife’s name is a perfect example of voter fraud. Thank you. See how great mail in ballots are? He voted for his dead wife and no one knew, until he told them. NOW you are starting to see the problem with the mail in ballots. Keep going! But I suggest you also open your mind to the possibility that (a) Democrats do the exact same thing and (b) there are other ways these ballots and mail in voting can be manipulated. Once you get that understanding, you are almost ready to consider other ways voting could be corrupted.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2would you be this concerned if your hero had won the election?” I won’t answer for @crazyguy, I’ll let him answer for himself. But if Trump had won and the election results were as sloppy and questionable as what happened in this past election, I would absolutely agree with anyone that felt doing a proper audit was worthwhile.

But think about that for a minute. What you would have to have for that case to be true is (a) Trump would had to have been the overwhelming underdog. This was not the case. (b) Mysterious batches of hundreds of thousands of votes would have to suddenly appear out of nowhere, concurrently in several states. (c) You’d have to have many poll workers come forward stating, under oath, that they witnessed irregular and/or criminal activities that seemed to be done to help Trump win. (d) counting would had to have been done under a blanket of secrecy. Dem observers would had to have been put at such a distance that they couldn’t actually see anything and then, when you tell them you are quitting for the night and they leave, you renew your counting efforts…efforts which show a massive increase in Trump’s votes.

If all those things happened, it would, in my mind, bring a whole bunch of stuff into question and make be believe the election was not valid. But apparently in the mind of a leftist, those things would ONLY matter if a Republican won.

Pandora's avatar

Even Republicans say this is a farce. It’s just wasting money. The good thing is it is wasting Republican money. But I’m sure if this was in reverse and Dems were demanding the recount because Biden lost, that you would be the first to say it’s a scam and Dems should move on. https://www.businessinsider.com/arizona-ballout-recount-wake-technology-services-backs-out-2021-5

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora No, we already saw how the Dems handle it when they lose. They accuse the winner, without a shred of evidence, of colluding with a foreign government to win the election. They tried using as evidence, a dossier performed by a former foreign spy who used informants from the same foreign government they were accusing the winner of working with. This former foreign spy was already discredited by our intelligence networks as being highly unreliable. But those same intelligence networks, headed by people loyal to the party that lost the election ignored their own decisions. They then push for a 3 year investigation to find dirt on this president. That eventually comes to fruition with the results showing that the winner of the election had nothing to do with any interference from the foreign government.

THAT is how the Dems deal with losing.

crazyguy's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Absolutely. If the Democrats wanted to recount the ballots in any state that Trump won in 2016 I would be all for it. After all, who wants a tainted victory?

seawulf575's avatar

@crazyguy If you remember, Jill Stein pushed for some recounts. They recounted Minnesota and Trump gained votes.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I remember Trump calling the Secretary of The State in Georgia to “Find” 12,000 votes for him too!

stanleybmanly's avatar

Who wants a tainted victory? The sudden need to overturn voting traditions is the desperate response from a party that despite its obstinate regressive stupidities has come to understand that it can no
longer win the popular vote in a national election. The Republicans haven’t won the
plurality in a Presidential
election since Reagan, with each of their Presidents taking office
with millions more votes cast
for their opponents. Desperate times, desperate measures.

Pandora's avatar

@seawulf575 The same goes for republicans. No evidence and even Republican lawmakers say it’s a farce. But hey, I’m okay with it. So long as the GOP keeps paying out money to these scam counters that’s less money for their lawmakers to run their campaigns. Because in the end none of these conspiracy theories right-wing partisan companies are going to be believed when they absolutely have no experience in auditing ballots and can just make up a number with no actual proof. I mean, who’s keeping them honest?
.

mazingerz88's avatar

Bitterness of the sad and the most sore losers in the history of US elections losing an election is no reason to audit.

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora Don’t you mean that no audit will be believed if it shows massive voter fraud that supported Biden? It wouldn’t matter who did the audit, would it really? Wouldn’t you folks on the left just try to find something to say it wasn’t a legit audit?

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 bitterness of the sad and the most sore losers in the history of US elections losing an election was no reason to create mayhem through false accusations either, but it tied up 3 years and $50M to show that it was a sham. But that was the Dems.

crazyguy's avatar

@Pandora Like I have said many times, counting and recounting the same valid or invalid ballots is an exercise in futility. I believe the Arizona audit goes one step further by examining each ballot in detail:

1. What pen was used?
2. Are there any patterns that can be tied to other ballots?

Unfortunately, there is no way, at present, to tie a ballot to a specific voter. Until that can happen, no conclusions are possible.

crazyguy's avatar

@mazingerz88 The only reasons to oppose any audit are:

1. Costs.
2. Possibility of tampering with the ballots.
3. Fear of the results.

In the Arizona audit, costs are being borne by others. The tampering possibilities have been eliminated in the updated procedure.

So that leaves reason #3.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The problem with this audit and all the other recounts after no wrong doing is found you fright wingers still wont let it go.

crazyguy's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Which of my points are you addressing?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well your country has been doing mail in voting for quite some time, even Trump has voted by mail in vote,with little to no problem in years gone by ,but this election your claiming massive voter fraud by the democrats.
after a whole bunch of recounts that still didn’t throw the election for your hero,now it has to be fraudulent ballots.
It doesn’t bother me but you fright wingers always scream the sky is falling when the dems cry about something and go on and on about the cost.
After this audit and still no wrong doing can you truthfully accept your hero simply lost?

sorry's avatar

I think it’s a distraction because they don’t want any attention paid to a potential commission to investigate the 6 January. If I had been part of the janitorial team, I would have taken all the waste that had DNA in it and bagged it and had it tested. Find out who shat where and publish my findings. It would be my gift to the American people.

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