Good example !

Just take the bloody vaccin ~

But @rebbel you have to show the anti-vaxxers in baby steps,after all they think their freedom is being attacked.

You can drink and drive as much as you want, many people do on a regular basis.

Nothing except your own decisions are keeping you from drinking and driving. I also think you’re kinda preachin’ to the choir.

Obviously, you could hit a bump and spill your drink.

Playing the devil’s advocate: Not drinking has positive health consequences, like seat belts. Ordering something that some believe may have negative consequences is a different animal. Yes, we all basically know the positive health consequences far outweigh any negatives. Anti-vaxxers just don’t see it that way.

You can drink and drive. You can pretty much do anything you like. But there are consequences that might not be beneficial to you. It is the frequency/consequence risk evaluation.

Wow! How come no one came up with ,It puts others in harms way.
You don’t drink and drive one it is illegal, 2 it puts the safety of others in great jeopardy.

@SQUEEKY2 Almost all of us did. Drinking and driving and vaccination just don’t follow each other.

By not getting the jab you put others at risk along with yourself.
Drinking and driving puts others at risk along with yourself..

Your body, your choice, your alcohol, your vehicle. And your consequence too. If you can take all of that then go ahead.

@SQUEEKY2 the problem with saying it puts others in harm is that it won’t work for some hard-headed people. They could argue that people should have taken precautions in the first place and it’s not their job to keep them safe. In their mind they are always the one with the right decision and other people should respect their choice and not cause trouble.

It’s about putting something into your body. A lot of people pushing the vaccine don’t seem to get that.

If people don’t want to take the vaccine then their consequence is not being able to work in some jobs, not being able to attend some events, and so on. Just like people can drink, but they cannot legally drive when they are drunk.

@SQUEEKY2 Wow! How come no one came up with ,It puts others in harms way.

Because you’re trying to “teach” us a lesson, and maybe some of us don’t appreciate it? Just how stupid do you think we are that we can’t see through your ‘lesson’?

As I said, you’re preaching to the choir. Why not find an anti-vaxer site and preach to them? I don’t mean you should leave us! Just that you’re talking to a group of people who have almost all (I’m guessing) been vaccinated…at least twice, if not three times.

That is a good example I’m left handed. Why can’t I drive on the left side of the road?
I want to blast my stereo at full volume at all hours. The government is infringing on my rights to loud music.

No amount of alcohol in the blood should be allowed in driving a car. ZERO! But drinking and driving and vaccines nothing to do with each other. Nevertheless KEEP UP THE FIGHT!

They are similar in that.they both put people around you in danger @omtatsat.

Your argument is pretty weak. Drinking alcohol is a choice. Owning a vehicle is a choice. Driving is a choice and a privilege. People aren’t worried about losing their jobs for driving sober.

@Dutchess_III Thank you for getting it.
@cheebdragon Thanks for your usual dark conservative answer.
@LuckyGuy I like your answer.
@smudges I realize most on this site have had the gab, BUT if one anti-vaxxers reads it and changes their mind all worth it, and wasn’t giving anyone shit .

I do find it funny that anti-vaxxers are basically using some of the same arguments pro-choice activists are.

@Blackwater_Park You mean like my body my choice type thing?

You absolutely can! Nothing is truly stopping you. I mean, you may kill someone and possibly go to jail but that’s about it. In my state, people are getting their 12th DUI!!!
Go Nuts!!!!

@SQUEEKY2 If you get the jab, you can still get the disease and you can still spread the disease. You can still put others in harms way, though you feel safer about it.

@seawulf575 and you more than likely stay out of the hospital if fully vaccinated.

99% of the people in hospitals with COVID-19 are unvaccinated,

You pointing to a single case or small number of cases of breakthrough, “the elephant in the room” is 99% of the dead and dying unvaccinated this last couple of months.

@Tropical_Willie But the point @SQUEEKY2 was making is that if you don’t get the jab you are putting others at risk. All you are pointing out is that you are feeling safer about putting others at risk.

@seawulf575

Wear a mask, get vaccinated, stay 6 foot apart and wash your hands.

@seawulf575 Getting the vaccine considerably lowers the chances you will spread it. In terms of risk/reward I’m now convinced that people who decide not to get the vaccine outside of legitimate medical contraindications cannot assess risk. They essentially are not good at math, don’t understand statistics and simply are incapable of visualizing the hazard being unvaccinated poses.

@SQUEEKY2 Yeah, things like the Gov’t should not decide what happens to my body. I never bought into any of those arguments myself. Something that I have seen that is being underestimated is workers willingness to quit for either not mandating the vaccine or mandating it in the workplace.

Fuck it, I’ll go do it right now

@seawulf575 Yeah you can still contract the variant and spread it ,you are correct but having the jab and getting the virus greatly reduces the chance you will require any time in a hospital.
A good friend of ours went to a dinner party and caught the Delta strain first thing he told my Father over the phone was THANK GOD he got the vaccine,made him sick but he didn’t need any time in a hospital.

@SergeantQueen If you haven’t yet I really hope you do.

Haven’t what?

Get the jab.^^

Oh, I was talking about drunk driving

This took a wrong turn real fast…

Naw, just a bump.^^

@Tropical_Willie That was not the question nor was it the flame bait behind the question. The actual point of the question was to try tying drunk driving to being the same as not being vaccinated. Your response is meaningless.

@Blackwater_Park where is your proof that transmission from vaccinated persons is less? The CDC looked at the Barnstable MA case and disagrees.

@SQUEEKY2 “Yeah you can still contract the variant and spread it ,you are correct but having the jab and getting the virus greatly reduces the chance you will require any time in a hospital.”

That, like @Tropical_Willie‘s comment is avoiding what you tried making the point of this question. Your very own statement: “By not getting the jab you put others at risk along with yourself.
Drinking and driving puts others at risk along with yourself..” Was the whole point of your question. To try changing it now to say that the jab helps protect YOU from more serious harm has no bearing on putting others at risk.

Face it @seawulf575 you don’t want to wear a mask, get vaccinated, avoid large groups and wash your hands after going out.

You don’t believe 700,000+ people have died in the Untied States.

15% of the COVID-19 deaths in the world are in USA and we are 5 % of the world population. Why is the death rate three times what it should be ?

Maybe the “It is what it is!” leader with the Tangerine makeup had something to do with it.

Face it, @Tropical_Willie You are trying to change the topic just so you think you can get one over on me. You are obsessed.

It does reduce both you and others from getting very ill, they are showing the graphs of people in the hospital with the delta stain, and yes people that have had the vaccine are in there as well but those who have had it with the vaccine are immune compromised as well and the numbers are really low .
Now drinking and driving puts you and others at great risk.
I think it’s the same thing for getting the vaccine if you are not compromised the chances of getting the virus and spreading it is very low, but because of the anti-vaxxers we still have to practice mask wearing and social distancing, and because of these we are going to be mask wearing and social distancing for a long time to come.

I think Rick and I are the only people in this whole town who still wear masks.

@SQUEEKY2 So what was the point of your question? It was a lame attempt to ask a question about vaccines. You don’t even want to try defending the point you tried making. You just want to try talking about vaccines and why they may or may not be good. BTW, it isn’t anti-vax people that are causing you to stay in masks. It was the Delta variant and the fact that the vaccines were found to basically do nothing towards protecting you from getting or spreading the disease. That’s why so many of the new edicts are “REGARDLESS of your vaccination status, masks are still required”.

@seawulf575 you know; the Delta variant is getting vaccinated people ill. It is 4 to 9 times likely to cause a COVID-19 infection as the original !

Wear a mask
Wash your hands
Social distance
Get vaccinated

@seawulf575 You are far less likely to get and spread the virus if you are vaccinated, thus protecting yourself and others.
If you do contract the virus being vaccinated you are more likely to weather it out at home instead of in a hospital and not need an ICU bed or a ventilator.
Again making it safer for yourself and others.
It is unvaccinated people that is going to keep us in masks,and overwhelming the healthcare system for years to come, but for some reason you seem to want that.

@Tropical_Willie So you agree that it isn’t the unvaccinated that are causing the vaccinated to wear masks. Thank you.

@SQUEEKY2 Not sure what the Canadian version of the CDC is recommending but the US CDC as well as the WHO are recommending masks for vaccinated persons…period. In other words, they are afraid the vaccinated persons are going to spread the disease, just like they did in Massachusetts. It wasn’t the unvaccinated that got the vaccinated sick, it was the vaccinated that got the vaccinated sick. So to tie it back to your drunk driving analogy, apparently driving can impact others as well as being vaccinated. You can take drunk right out of the picture.

No I don’t agree but you opinion is how you think.

Wear the freaking mask ! No they’re afraid the unvaccinated will cause the vaccinated and unvaccinated to GET COVID-19 !

Do the math !

42% of the people in my county are fully vaccinated; go to a store where masks are required if you are unvaccinated and 98% of the people have no mask on. Math was never their strong point.
I’m part of the two percent wearing a mask !

The unvaccinated are going to kill themselves or at least 2% to 9% of them. Higher numbers because they take horse dewormer and aquarium cleaner.

@seawulf575 I wish Florida required masks for anyone who crossed the state line the last seven days. I wish we had the phone apps that track people for covid. I had really mixed feelings about that, but with people dying around me it just is ridiculous now and we want our freedom back to go out and feel safe. We have proven over and over again masks work when everyone is wearing them. I am fine with people who are very low risk not wearing them, but that is not how it plays out.

I recently read an article, I would have to search for it, that had statistics from a survey that shows the unvaccinated are much more likely to not wear a mask.

@Tropical_Willie Sources! So me the RCTs that show masks work.

and @Tropical_Willie if you are vaccinated and blame the unvaccinated for all the problems and that they are going to kill themselves, what do you really care? You are vaccinated! If I don’t wear a mask around you, does it hurt you?

“You are vaccinated! If I don’t wear a mask around you, does it hurt you?”

It might; my wife has pre-existing conditions, I get it she dies . . . !

We both are fully vaccinated but her Dr has restricted the number of contacts she or I make outside the house. And to always wear mask.

@seawulf575

“If you’ve been fully vaccinated:
You can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
To reduce the risk of being infected with the Delta variant and possibly spreading it to others, wear a mask indoors in public if you are in an area of substantial or high transmission.
You might choose to wear a mask regardless of the level of transmission if you have a weakened immune system or if, because of your age or an underlying medical condition, you are at increased risk for severe disease, or if a member of your household has a weakened immune system, is at increased risk for severe disease, or is unvaccinated.

September 16, 2021 CDC

Large Study Confirms Masks Work to Limit COVID-19 Spread.

WebMD Sept 7, 2021

@Tropical_Willie That is not a Randomized Controlled Test. That is an answer in search of a question. They got an answer and decided to attribute it to a single variable. In a real world test there are literally thousands of variables that are not accounted for. That is why the RCTs are the gold standard for studies. I have posted several RCTs about masks NOT being effective and possibly making things worse. These studies were done by the WHO and the CDC BEFORE the political impact of Covid. Now the only answer they are looking for is that masks work and they don’t do RCTs to try proving it…because it doesn’t hold true.

AND, @Tropical_Willie The CDC originally put out to wear a mask to keep from spreading the disease to others. They claimed it did nothing towards preventing you from getting it. So having your wife wear a mask when she goes out is meaningless. As is ANYONE wearing a mask while they are out if they don’t have the disease. Of course the problem with that is you may have the disease and not know it until after you have already spread it. But for a doctor to recommend she wears a mask when she goes out doesn’t even follow the basic ideals behind the CDC’s guidelines.

@seawulf575 Masks making things worse, vaccinated people spreading the virus more than un vaccinated,I absolutely do not believe any of that crap.
The numbers up here show people in ICU from the 4th wave is well over 95% unvaccinated to the around 5% vaccinated and that 5% were immune compromised .
NO one has said mask wearing is a 100% effective but it is a good defence ,along with proper hand washing and social distancing.
I suppose next you will say social distancing does nothing as well.

@SQUEEKY2
Masks:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16295987/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/ This one is not a specific RCT but it does explain why and how masks can add to infections. A good read.

I could go on with this but you should get the idea. Now, the real kicker is that as you get into 2020 and 2021, almost every “study” I can find is NOT an RCT. And even the ones that show no real gain from wearing masks conclude something along the lines “but it can’t hurt”. In other words, these studies were politically motivated and influenced to get an answer that supports current talking points.

Vaccinated people spreading the disease: https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-d9504519a8ae081f785ca012b5ef84d1. A good article following the Provincetown MA review. How could so many fully vaccinated people get the disease? Because they were spreading it. They had just as much virus in their nasal cavities as unvaccinated.

And its funny you mention social distancing. Do you know where the 6 foot rule came from? Yeah, neither does anyone else. I heard early on that 6 feet is the average distance moisture droplets can fly when you sneeze. So right off the bat, 6 feet is a random selection of distance. It makes no sense if you are not sneezing on or at others. But does social distancing really help? A group at MIT did a study that says no. And it makes sense. Air in an enclosed space (indoor setting) is constantly circulated. If I breath out the virus on one side of a room, it will be spread throughout the space before it is “dead”. Anyone in that space will breath it in and out.

It’s not like if you wear a mask all your friends will think you voted for Biden !

I am going to to do what our provincial health officer wants,and that is to wear masks and social distance.
Your links say use of masks provide little evidence on how well they actually provide protection, but every DOCTOR, and health care professional says wear the damn things but you say it’s all political.
How about a little survey I do what the health professionals say and have never had covid19 and my wife works in health care and has never had covid19.
AND I knew you would bad mouth social distancing next.
YOU say masks don’t work,the vaccines are a joke and have had covid .
Sorry but can’t take anything you say about covid seriously.

And how come according to you ,we all should have had covid by now,
If masks don’t work,vaccines don’t work, social distancing doesn’t we all should have been infected by now so why haven’t we?

@SQUEEKY2 The problem you are having is reconciling what science says and what the politically and financially driven people say. I just showed you what science says. It isn’t about me. My opinion means nothing. But if you are making claims that masks work, you need to know what the true scientific studies say on the subject. You need to know WHY they are valid studies and what the difference is between the RCTs and things like “evidence based studies” or some other claptrap. Those are essentially anecdotal claims.

You continue to try discounting all these things by assigning all the claims to me. If you ignore me, then all is good in the world and all those things I just cited can be ignored without any effort. I just cited studies from the National Institute of Health, an article from AP news, and a study from MIT. I didn’t participate in any of these studies. I didn’t fund any of these studies. I merely read the studies and decided that what they are saying makes sense to me.

As for your claim that I claim that we should all have had the disease by now, I’ve never claimed any such thing. But you could say the same about any flu bug that has ever come around during your lifetime. Why didn’t everyone have the flu? We weren’t masked, we weren’t social distancing, and there weren’t always vaccines that were effective for the strains that came around. So why didn’t everyone get the flu? Huh. Maybe because it isn’t that contagious? Maybe it was luck? Maybe some immune systems dealt with it as it was entering their bodies? Maybe they had a mild case and didn’t report it to anyone.

But my point here is that there are an awful lot of claims as to what we should and shouldn’t do that really aren’t backed up by solid science. And it is possible and even likely that the claims are causing the spread of the disease to continue.

“But my point here is that there are an awful lot of claims as to what we should and shouldn’t do that really aren’t backed up by solid science. And it is possible and even likely that the claims are causing the spread of the disease to continue.”

Utter and complete BS ! Where or rather what “Buy a diploma here.” online company did you get your knowledge and medical degree from ? ?

Get vaccinated and wear a mask.

Ok your first link stated that in the smaller group masks did indeed result in fewer infections,but in the larger group there was little evidence that there was much or little benefits to the masks.
NOT one person has said the masks were 100% but still a good line of defence in this pandemic.

You keep pointing science ,science, science BUT why does every health care professional say wear them if they don’t make a difference.WHY DO THEY KEEP WANTING THE PUBLIC TO WEAR THEM IF THEY DON“T HELP???
Look I dislike the masks a great deal,BUT in public I will keep wearing it until we crawl out from under this virus.

@seawulf575 Is solid science fearing the vaccines, but embracing Bleach,Pool cleaner or ,Horse dewormer, or trusting radiologists over virus experts?

@Tropical_Willie Personal attacks are not science either. I just showed you several studies by people that DO have the pertinent degrees that show that masks and social distancing are not doing anything (at best) and that people that have gotten the vaccine can still get the disease as well as spreading it. Yet you continue to try making it about me. Attack the science.

@SQUEEKY2 So the science shows that masks really don’t do anything…you just agreed with that. The tests show no really significant gain one way or the other. So now you are asking the pertinent question…why do health care professionals keep harping on them? If you go back to the start, we had the eminent Dr. Fauci and many other health care professionals telling us not to waste time with masks as they don’t do anything. They basically cited the kind of studies I just showed you. Then, almost on a dime, they changed their tune from don’t-wear-them to they-can’t-hurt to have-to-wear-them-or-else. Why? There were no studies done that actually shows they work. Those ha-ha studies didn’t start showing up for almost another year. At that point they certainly didn’t want to do RCTs since those show no gain so they went to the “evidence based” studies which they can manipulate to say whatever they want. So why DO they want us wearing masks? I can think of dozens of political reasons, but can’t come up with a single medical reason.

As for solid science, solid science is questioning. Plain and simple. If you believe you have a new idea, you test it. You then take the results and challenge them…questioning to make them fall apart. If they don’t fall apart, you have others question them and challenge them in different ways to see if they continue to hold up. If they fall apart at any point along the way, you take the results and question them to see what actually happened and to see if that is pointing you in a new way or if there was some other interference. The questioning goes on and on. Solid science is NEVER coming up with an answer and then putting out statements to say the answers are true. That is what we have gotten to in this world. As for bleach, pool cleaner, horse dewormer, or trusting radiologists over virus experts, I can tell you that in each and ever case you mentioned, there is some piece of science there. Bleach/pool cleaner are disinfectants. Remember, science starts with ideas. Those were ideas. Now the leftist media went crazy on a lot of these, but what if there is some help there? What if you take bleach in a mild concentration and turn it into a vapor to help kill the virus in the nasal passages? Would it work? I have no idea, but that is the first thing in science…an idea. But the media rushed to ridicule it without any consideration and therefore no efforts were put into looking into things like this. The horse dewormer is already used in humans for other applications. Why is it so out of the realm of reality to consider if it might help in this application? As for trusting radiologists over virologists, why would you discount what someone says just because they aren’t the “expert” in the field? Suppose the radiologist had an actual good idea because of something he/she saw or thinks they saw that might help with the disease? Are you suggesting we ignore everyone except the experts? I’ve seen many on the left and in the media give Bill Nye the Science Guy legitimacy because he comes out saying what they want to hear. They treat him like an actual scientist. He is a mechanical engineer. Do you ridicule that?

So you’re a virus specialist !

@Tropical_Willie No, that would be you. You are always the one telling me what I have to do to protect the world from the virus. How do you know all that? Because you are a virus specialist!

@seawulf575 They said the masks did very little in large crowd studies,in small case studies they said the masks did provide protection against infections.
And didn’t the health care professionals say keep our people bubbles small,avoid large gatherings type thing, during this world wide pandemic?

@seawulf575 What is your medical certification or is Facebook your source of information
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What university or college of medicine did you graduate from ?
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Question is China paying you for disinformation ?

@Tropical_Willie What is yours? I’ve cited my sources and they are medical studies, but you haven’t posted anything. So what is your source of information…CNN or MSNBC?

What University or College of medicine did you graduate from? You are the one giving the medical advice.

Is China paying YOU for disinformation?

China’s misinformation about vaccinations !

Sounds like you.

I know I am but what are you??

@seawulf575 Who am I putting at risk if I don’t get the jab? Certainly not the vaccinated. And not the unvaccinated because they have anyhow accepted any risk involved with not getting vaccinated.

@omtatsat
For starters,...yourself.

Look in the mirror @omtatsat !